Bring Back True Healing for Everyone

MjmackaMjmacka Age Unconfirmed Posts: 55
The meta of MPQ has changed enough that I think it's time to bring back true healing for characters who are missing it. Reasons why:
1) Prologue matches are not repayable.
2) PVE seems to be trending away from having 3 easy matches.
3) Health pools have grown so large that it takes quite a few matches while to heal a 3/4* team.
4) It makes characters like 3* Spiderman, Beast, and Spidergwen more viable and more useful when they are featured.
5) Players can have 10 health packs at a time, making attempting to exploit true healers less viable.

Thoughts, comments, criticisms?

And yes, I know that this doesn't fix broken characters it just makes them slightly more useful when they are featured or for events like the Deadpool Daily.
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Comments

  • TxMooseTxMoose Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    sure that could work in the 'meta' level of the game (in that it won't make much of an difference), but back at the 2*/early 3* portions of the game, obw, spidey and friends would make their pve advantage that they already have (see leaderboards), absolutely enormous.
  • ErikPeterErikPeter Posts: 718 Critical Contributor
    Nope.

    Getting rid of true healing was a great fix for the game; back in those days OBW was essential because you could do 30 matches in a row with her, or 3 without her.

    I don't want to be stuck using Kamala Khan in every single match. But true healing would incentivize that hugely, I could play Fistbuster/KK indefinitely instead of occasionally having to munch a heal pack.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    If I remember right, the rationale behind the change was "prologue healing isn't fun". Now that they've locked the prologue, it kinda shoots holes in that pretense and adds credence to the suspected reason, ie "buying health packs is fun"
  • FaustianDealFaustianDeal Age Unconfirmed Posts: 760 Critical Contributor
    Part of the problem is that some abilities could plausibly be "healing" powers and they simply are not. "Medical Marvel" on beast is very poorly named if it isn't actually healing. Bringing a case of Red Bull to the battle and handing them out isn't a medical marvel. Where Kamala's power is basically a morale boost - which makes sense that it only be a temporary effect.

    Prologue healing was entirely the problem. You can say you would run HB/IF/KK all day, but beyond a certain level in PVP you are going to get obliterated. This was the fate that eventually befell people running the classic spider-man. You could (eventually) win almost any battle, but the extra time it took for you to heal before you ended a fight usually meant a screen with a bunch of loses would be waiting for you. And there are a lot of matches you simply aren't going to win if you bring OBW to the party.

    I think this suggestion has merit. But I think its worth making a thematic distinction between powers that are truly 'healing'. There are plenty of things that can heal people other than a mutant healing factor. For example: Reed Richards has a healing ability with, literally, no thematic sense - so why can't some of the other characters?
  • MjmackaMjmacka Age Unconfirmed Posts: 55
    I'm sure PVE will be changed so underleveled teams don't have such a huge advantage. The devs discussed how they didn't like soft caps in the past. I don't think a soft capped KK will be broken with true healing.
  • TxMooseTxMoose Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think for full 3* players kk would be OP if her healing were actual heal and not burst. also, kk with someone like sentry becomes much more viable. caltrops no longer is an issue, etc. even a transitioner could push kk high, put her on 5 yellow, get a ton of healing out of her and just continuously play with cheap characters like fist, psylocke, punisher, mags, torch, gamora red, daken, dp red, beast - could put a ton of pairs together that would just never die due to cheap attacks healing every 2-3 turns. pretty sure she'd be OP just like obw would be at the 2* level.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,923 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2016
    The problem wasn't prologue healing per se, it was schizophrenic game design.

    You can't have an aggressively health-gated game and then add characters that negate the health-mechanic. That's stupid.

    Healthpacks and health-gating suck for players, but if demiurge is serious about using them as a revenue stream, then true healing cannot be in the game (especially not team healing. If some characters are less useful in a match, but true heal as the trade-off that's ok. A la patch and daken after the health shift. But oml probably shouldn't exist. The best offensive character in the game shouldn't also have the best healing)
  • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Like others, I agree that instead of making it a blanket fix, it should be incorporated case-by-case. If they are unwilling to change super bad healing powers of bad-to-mediocre characters (like 3* Spiderman, Beast or Chulk) for a better power, at least make those abilities true-healers. Without the prologue, bringing those characters into battle, especially when they are not boosted is already a high price to pay.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    The problem wasn't prologue healing
    I guess I wasn't being clear enough. I agree with that. But that's what we were getting told at the time. Plenty of people were skeptical, and plenty of people were calling out the skeptics for thinking everything was always about health packs.
  • MjmackaMjmacka Age Unconfirmed Posts: 55
    could put a ton of pairs together that would just never die due to cheap attacks healing every 2-3 turns. pretty sure she'd be OP just like OBW would be at the 2* level
    You can already do this, the only difference is that your characters can't gain health. If everyone enters at 80% and you play properly, everyone exits at 80%. You don't gain the extra 20% at the end of the match.

    For most teams, running a team healer other than OBW (for 2*'s), KK (3*), or Spidergwen (4*)'s is a waste of a roster slot.

    IMO, one of the big issues for MPQ is that it's completely speed based. Speed of PVP for shield hops, and PVE for clears & top scores. It completely disincentives defensive characters. Attack/Strike tiles > Defense tiles. Currently, the only incentive I have for healing my 4*'s is to mitigate future team damage or so I can cast IMHB's black without inuring damage.
  • Linkster79Linkster79 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,037
    From the True Healing announcement thread
    IceIX wrote:
    One of the intentions with this change is to cut down on things like Prologue Healing, which prolongs play time through something that is pretty obviously just a time intensive process that doesn't involve actual strong gameplay. It's something people do because it's there, much like tanking. It's not something that's fun. It's not something that's enjoyable. It's something that exists and is taken advantage of because of pure efficiency.

    What we intend, and continue to drill in on is that we want players to have a broad mix of characters instead of a Top 3 that is their sole team to play with. In Versus this is a bit rougher of a prospect as players that battle have their last winning team placed on defense. So it's not always the best idea to fight with a less powerful defensive team in order to make up more points. That's something that we're always thinking about. We've discussed allowing players to set a defensive team, but with many other games out with similar versus situations this results in a very precise meta-game where an extremely large percentage of the user base chooses the same defenders. That's not a very fun time for most players.

    However, in Events, we continually buff different characters, and outside of Heroics, still allow for characters to be used that aren't buffed. What we want players to do is to play with the breadth of their roster instead of using Spider-Man or Black Widow as necessary crutches and only building 3 other characters. This change is intended to result in exactly this as players see that they can't just rely on in-battle healing and look for other ways besides spending Health Packs to continue playing. We want you to keep playing on your own schedule. We want you to play with multiple characters. Doing so keeps players on their toes and making them think of character combinations that they wouldn't otherwise go with if they weren't forced out of their single set of heroes.

    So does that still hold true? Do players still rely on their best A Team in versus events just to either speed their way through matches or to make a scarecrow defence? Once a player has a fully maxed combination of Hulkbuster, Iron fist, Teen Jean and Iceman would they really be looking at bringing into versus a She-Hulk, Kamala Khan or Totally Awesome Hulk with True Healing abilities just for extended play time or would they stick with the tried and tested formula of winning matches as quickly as possible? I know I would pick speed over healing any day of the week, however and this is a big however, are players really using their full roster in versus mode? Roster diversity was the first (and by assumption) and most important reason to scrap True Healing.

    True Healing won't ever make a return, however it is always nice to bring the subject up if only to debunk the reasons given and to let the admins know that "This too shall NOT pass".
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Linkster79 wrote:
    So does that still hold true? Do players still rely on their best A Team in versus events just to either speed their way through matches or to make a scarecrow defence?
    We have more diversity now, but not within events... we have it week to week, as the buff list changes. Sure, some people insist on using Jeanbuster no matter who's buffed, but assuming you have a broad 4* roster, and not a 5* team yet, your best move is to build your team around the buffed characters. So your best A Team this week isn't going to be your best A Team next week.
  • Linkster79Linkster79 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,037
    simonsez wrote:
    Linkster79 wrote:
    So does that still hold true? Do players still rely on their best A Team in versus events just to either speed their way through matches or to make a scarecrow defence?
    We have more diversity now, but not within events... we have it week to week, as the buff list changes. Sure, some people insist on using Jeanbuster no matter who's buffed, but assuming you have a broad 4* roster, and not a 5* team yet, your best move is to build your team around the buffed characters. So your best A Team this week isn't going to be your best A Team next week.

    That's is a direct result from characters being buffed fir that event/week and also more of a focus by the developers on the 4* tier and not a byproduct of lack of True Healing. Nobody who has say 2 top tier 4* characters in a use able state would ever switch either of them out for a healer. Especially a very weak 2* like OBW.
  • NokkonWudNokkonWud Posts: 15 Just Dropped In
    I was frustrated at first, but now, honestly, I think it's a better game for having the healing the way it is. It tiers off PvP play and requires better roster management (and wider ranges of rosters.)
  • Nightglider1Nightglider1 Posts: 605 Critical Contributor
    simonsez wrote:
    If I remember right, the rationale behind the change was "prologue healing isn't fun". Now that they've locked the prologue, it kinda shoots holes in that pretense and adds credence to the suspected reason, ie "buying health packs is fun"

    Sort of like how taking out the guaranteed character in a 10-pack was apparently because players being able to have control over 10% of a draw (the random color notwithstanding) wasn't fun. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 656 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2016
    Here's a suggestion for a replacement of the current system.

    Every healing ability becomes true healing, but health above what you started a match with doesn't carry over to future matches. The health that doesn't carry over could be marked with the temp health color.

    So you could cast a team heal at the end of a match and it would actually be useful. On the other hand, OML would be less invincible. Phoenix would still be pretty good and more of a glass cannon.
  • Spencer75Spencer75 Posts: 232
    No........
  • SkymediumSkymedium Posts: 38 Just Dropped In
    You guys makes it sound like obw isnt an absolute necessary before fully transitioned to 4* if even then.
    I use her in basically every matchup i can because the health loss if not is too huge.
  • JaedenkaalJaedenkaal Posts: 3,356 Chairperson of the Boards
    I haven't needed her since I got Luke Cage and Iron Fist to usable levels long ago. You can bet she (or Beast) would be on every team I ever built for PVE if they did true healing, though. This way is probably best for composition variety.
  • rednailzrednailz Posts: 559
    Wow..Haven't played in well over a year but logged in to see what the new charecters are like (looking pretty intense with some cool 5* that I couldn't imagine how much effort and time they take to get..but still very cool) and I see people still whining about true healing? It's been years...get over it.
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