Why does this game punish you for progressing?

Unknown

You would think improving your roster and character levels would make life easier and allow you to progress farther. When in fact it just pushes you into more difficult scaling tiers and matchmaking.

I'm in the 2*->3* transition...When I softcapped around 127 I could very easily hit 650 in PvP, I just couldn't climb past that. I wanted to start hitting 800 for the 3* cover so I bit the bullet and pushed 5 characters to 166. Now it's a struggle to even get back to the 650 I hit without any issues. I face much more difficult teams earlier on and I still hit nothing but unbeatable teams around 600-650.

This game always feels like you're taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

Dragon_Nexus

They're going to do something with scaling this month apparently. So I'd suggest holding tight and seeing what they come up with.

They fact they acknowledge it as an issue is encouraging, at least.

I'm in a similar situation, starting to level my 4*s up and finding it more difficult to push onwards. Having the entire 2* and 3* roster neutered really hurts defensively, too. You may have a lot of HP but you don't hit nearly as hard as a 4* does.

MaxxPowerz

Yeah, I thought I heard something about them introducing a veteran's mode as well?

This is the biggest flaw of the game imo and one that has gone overlooked for far too long. Until you are able to get a decent roster of 4* characters max leveled you're never really going to be able to comfortably compete for the top tier prizes. This is only going to widen the gap between the veterans and the incoming playerbase, most likely causing them to give up on the game.

I feel like if I'm stuggling to reach 1000 in PVP, I shouldn't be competing with people that are putting up 3000 in an event regularly. I don't even have a solid 4* roster yet and I am put in a pool with people who have maxed out 5* characters? My best 4* is a max covered Cyc sitting at level 150.

ClydeFrog76

They should've introduced tiers to PVP ages ago. The fact of the matter is, if you've got three or more max-covered max-leveled 4*s, you should not be competing with those of us who don't. It's so unfair it's not even funny.

Every PVP I enter the top 10 is full of people who not only don't need the 3* prizes, they don't even need the 4* #1 prize. I know championing means that all covers are worthwhile these days, but that's beside the point. 3* - 4* transitioners should not be headbutting a wall of 4* powerhouses.

TLCstormz

Why? Because they already know that people will CONTINUE to pump thousands of dollars and over 40 hours of their life into this gameper week, regardless of how ridiculous they make it. lol.

Clearly.

amusingfoo1

I made the jump from 120 to 166 just about when OML was introduced (had to roster Surfer), and I must admit that my experience was far different. I found PvP got massively easier and more rewarding. I did have one advantage, in that a couple of the characters I bumped up then were 4*s, but it was only shortly after that (after leveling up to 185 or so) that I started hitting 1k regularly.

I'm now in championed 4* land, and I've found it getting easier, in both PvE and (especially) PvP, as I've progressed from there.

acescracked

Rotflmao! The reason is because months ago a bunch of 2*-3* transitioners flooded the forum crying the game is impossible to progress since all they face is a wall of 166s or get hit by teams way better than theirs.

The devs knowing that they don't want to frustrate new players matched those said players from facing tough battles. In turn when you get past that 2*-3* transition it now gets harder.

BTW, many vets explained that the game as a result would get more difficult as you progressed. The whiners got what they requested.

atomzed

And when you get pass the 3*-4* transition, you start to smack yourself against a wall of teams with 1 x 5*. And once you get deep into 4*, you may start seeing teams with 2x 5*.

It won't get any easier unfortunately.

I am still hoping for a league system but I am not holding my breath for it.

Pongie

Don't think of it as punishment. It's really just progression. The game has always matched you against stronger teams. When you started out in 1*, the goons and 2* enemies were already higher levels than you. When you progressed to 2*, the 3* teams were again higher levels than you. So why do you not expect to face 4* teams when you're rocking 3*? It's not impossible to beat 4* teams with good 3* teams. Heck, I went through that phase for over half a year (plus a quarter of a year before that in the 3* transition). You get used to facing fistbusters, jeanbusters, iceman, cyclops and rhulks that eventually they don't become so scary anymore. There's a tonne of information on these forums to help you out. This game is meant to be challenging and you should be enjoying it while you can. Once you hit the 4*-5* transition, you'll see progression become true punishment based on your luck against rng gods.

Polares

Two posts in one :

This has always been the biggest problem of this game. The fundamental reason for this problem is that we all fight for the same rewards in the same groups.

Any layer should be allowed to win chars for his tier and the one above, and then every tier would be allowed to have its own group and just fight against people with the same rosters as themselves, with a rewards that will let them go to the next tier with a bit of work.

A team of 2s SHOULD NEVER be allowed to fight for 4s and LTs. A team of 3s should not be allowed to win 5s.

Now we have rosters of 2s that have more 4s than 3s and maybe even some 5s. This is wrong, and it is making progress way more difficult for these people. They don't want to sell 5s or 4s because they are better than 3s, but then they don't have enough roster positions for everybody and they start selling 3s, which is going to be a problem after the first month.

Progression has always been messed up in this game, but now with more layers is even worse.

//

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The problem never truly disappears, you get to a layer, you sit there comfortably for a while but when you start to move to the next one it is a nightmare. I have 'completed' the 4 transition and now I was starting the 5 transition, but with all these buyers clubs there are A LOT of people with 400+ level OMLs out there which make this transition again really hard and really boring (because all other 5s except GG are really bad for PvP, so it is OML everywhere). It doesn't help that my 9 cover SS is completely useless.

ammenell

with the release of champions i maxed some of my 3*s, my transition is finished in a few weeks.
sometimes I hit 1k for the 4*, but have not a single useable 4* - and until I do have, there is no advantage in leveling them.

selling all 5* was good for my scaling - I mostly see 3* rosters until 800 points

d3 looking into the scaling issue?
I think thats a troll.

Malcrof

If things never scaled or got any harder, the game would die, it would become so boring no-one would want to play PVE at all. As your roster gets stronger, you need to face stronger opponents, or else why would you bother ever making your roster stronger?

puppychow

Let's say game devs do end up making scaling harder the more covers you have (i.e. champed). I think the die hards will get around it by selling champs and rebuilding from scratch. Watch, it's gonna happen!

Philly484

I would say the skill lvl def goes up. I know now that I have 3 4* championed characters I am finding it easier. I still stop around the 1,000 mark in pvp, but this season coming I'm def going to push myself. Honestly I would get aggravated about the scaling when I was in 2* - 3* land, but it just takes time to figure out the combinations that work, and lvling those characters up. I mean I can beat a 4* team with MNMags, CStorm, and MHwkeye as long as I watch my cascades, and don't pick the wrong moves to use. Once you at least have those characters that work together the game gets better.

TxMoose

Mau-- wrote:

and I still hit nothing but unbeatable teams around 600-650.

what are we defining as unbeatable? I really had to get over the mental block of taking on teams with levels well above my guys when I was trying to start grabbing more 4* covers. my first 1300 was with 166s (unboosted fist/cage). granted there were no 5*s back then but there were lots of fistbusters/jeanbusters around. it may be a little different now with so many maxed 4s out there, but hopefully mmr is keeping you from the level 300+ boosted guys.

simonsez

Malcrof wrote:

If things never scaled or got any harder, the game would die, it would become so boring no-one would want to play PVE at all. As your roster gets stronger, you need to face stronger opponents, or else why would you bother ever making your roster stronger?

You're not describing PUNISHMENT. Yes, we don't expect to face prologue level characters when we're running lv 270+ characters. The problem is that the difficulty ramp-up is handled poorly, so that people with weaker rosters have a PvE advantage, and transitioners who've drawn a couple 5* covers can't compete in PvP as well as transitioners who haven't drawn any 5*s.

RWTDBurn

The progression system is broken at several levels. While I agree with Malcof that the challenge does need to increase some as you scale up, it can't be done in a fashion that makes players regret leveling their roster because it becomes a disadvantage. You want players to feel more powerful and get a chance to beat on the lower left rosters some early in events while facing tougher teams towards the higher points in events. As it is currently you don't feel the difficulty ramping up as you get more points, you go from a few feeder teams to Maxed 3* and 4* teams with 5* characters mixed in there immediately.

To me the fix here can be done with the points system. Right now the point value for wins/losses are based completely on the points your enemy has vs the amount of points you have. This is the system that is broken. Point values displayed are not accurate and the amount of points you lose is ridiculous. If I make a late climb and attack a 4* transitioner with 2 360+ 5* who is trying to get to 1k I take 70+ points off of him crushing his chances during a hop. That's not fair to him. The amount of points lost needs to be decreased and the points value for a match needs to be based on the strength of your roster vs the strength of your enemy's roster. A 5* player should have a chance to attack 3* transitioners but the value of that battle would be very little to them and the points lost for the 3* player should be near nothing.

mpqr7

The punishment wouldn't be so bad if the rewards increased.

In most RPGs, as you progress, you fight tougher battles, but you get better and better items, more xp, more gp etc.

In MPQ, we get lv 395 enemies but the prizes you'd be receiving from lv 100 enemies.

carrion_pigeons

mpqr7 wrote:

The punishment wouldn't be so bad if the rewards increased.

In most RPGs, as you progress, you fight tougher battles, but you get better and better items, more xp, more gp etc.

In MPQ, we get lv 395 enemies but the prizes you'd be receiving from lv 100 enemies.

Yes, this is exactly the problem. They have linear rewards systems but exponential power scaling. They are just never going to have decent matchmaking while that's the case.

ammenell

mpqr7 wrote:

The punishment wouldn't be so bad if the rewards increased.

In most RPGs, as you progress, you fight tougher battles, but you get better and better items, more xp, more gp etc.

In MPQ, we get lv 395 enemies but the prizes you'd be receiving from lv 100 enemies.

thats the way I see it - why roster a 5* when all you get is a character you probably dont play at all, maxed 4* teams in pvp, l300 juggs in pve and lots of frustration?

in my experience, ignoring 5*s makes sense:
i have half of the 3*s championed, the other half are waiting for iso, and the first two 4*s are borderline playable.
sold 4 5*s (one of the first 3 each) and I do see insane, annoying troll juggs in pve, in pvp i see the first 4* teams at the 800 mark.

progression is slow when your 3*s are mostly covered, but ignoring 5*s at least left me with playable matches

Malcrof

simonsez wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

If things never scaled or got any harder, the game would die, it would become so boring no-one would want to play PVE at all. As your roster gets stronger, you need to face stronger opponents, or else why would you bother ever making your roster stronger?

You're not describing PUNISHMENT. Yes, we don't expect to face prologue level characters when we're running lv 270+ characters. The problem is that the difficulty ramp-up is handled poorly, so that people with weaker rosters have a PvE advantage, and transitioners who've drawn a couple 5* covers can't compete in PvP as well as transitioners who haven't drawn any 5*s.

Actually, in PVE they seem to have fixed it some, now that not non-goon scales over 326, a max 4* or high 5* team will rule PVE more than a capped roster...

I currently have my highest PVE ranking in over a year, all because i leveled my OML and a lvl 326 juggs , a few times over, rarely costs me a health pack.