Red Response to the King Pin nerf please (CS reponse 3/4/16)

Melevorn

wymtime wrote:

...Now I understand what the OP was talking about and agree XFDP and KP combo definatly got nerfed. I just have not used that combo since the update.

With KP boosted immediately after the update, I spent a couple of games trying to figure out why the combo wasn't doing the expected damage before an alliance mate explained the change to KP's black which caused the nerf.

sinnerjfl

Phaserhawk wrote:

Due to this, many combinations and functions no longer work with each other. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Inconvenience? You gutted a legit combo. No resale, no explanation. It's absolutely just a "we don't care"

"We apologize for our incompetence"


I don't get it, why nerf that combo? Im sure it's only because they can't code for **** as it's been proved before (strongest color bug, STILL not fixed 4 months and counting)

Phaserhawk

sinnerjfl wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Due to this, many combinations and functions no longer work with each other. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Inconvenience? You gutted a legit combo. No resale, no explanation. It's absolutely just a "we don't care"

"We apologize for our incompetence"


I don't get it, why nerf that combo? Im sure it's only because they can't code for tinykitty as it's been proved before (strongest color bug, STILL not fixed 4 months and counting)

Right!! Which you could have fixed by recoding Deadpool to have it go off if the tile is removed but I digress

Jaedenkaal

Phaserhawk wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Due to this, many combinations and functions no longer work with each other. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Inconvenience? You gutted a legit combo. No resale, no explanation. It's absolutely just a "we don't care"

"We apologize for our incompetence"


I don't get it, why nerf that combo? Im sure it's only because they can't code for tinykitty as it's been proved before (strongest color bug, STILL not fixed 4 months and counting)

Right!! Which you could have fixed by recoding Deadpool to have it go off if the tile is removed but I digress

Well that would also be a change to the previous functionality (Mind over Matter for instance). Another solution might be to have Kingpin's ability attempt to destroy the tile twice, or to simply unfortify it (which would do nothing to previously-unfortified tiles) and then destroy it.

Unless the KP/DP interaction was already unintended and scheduled to be removed (which should have been communicated already if that were the case), this seems like a pretty low blow.

Phaserhawk

I'm just going to keep asking until I get a response. Just like Andy from Shawshank. Im going to write a letter a day

Breaking your current toys to shove another one in the toy box is just bad all the way around

Raffoon

Phaserhawk wrote:

I'm just going to keep asking until I get a response. Just like Andy from Shawshank. Im going to write a letter a day

Breaking your current toys to shove another one in the toy box is just bad all the way around

Let's do it. Also the 5* distribution thread. Also let's dig up an xforcewolv/thor nerf thread too.

I'm stubborn. This stuff needs responses.

Rogan_Josh

You know i wouldn't give a damn about any of this if it wasn't all for a rather needless and boring new mechanic [read "useful lock tiles"].

It's like carnage all over again. Cap Marvel was already below average even before her nerf. (i'm a CM fan).

The combo itself is okay, it's nothing world shaking. It's just betting poo poo'd for a bad mechanic that belongs on a 2* character.

Polares

Raffoon wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I'm just going to keep asking until I get a response. Just like Andy from Shawshank. Im going to write a letter a day

Breaking your current toys to shove another one in the toy box is just bad all the way around

Let's do it. Also the 5* distribution thread. Also let's dig up an xforcewolv/thor nerf thread too.

I'm stubborn. This stuff needs responses.

Yeah I was thinking of doing just that with why Silver Surfer is so utterly lame as a 5 (this can be transformed to why the hell do you need so much time to buff chars that are obviously so much worse than others). But luck as the only way of getting 5s and xforce green nerf also make me cry everytime I think about them.

There are so many things they need to answer, and it looks like they don't care.

I am also quite stubborn

pheregas

Why would only Kingpin be affected by this? Wouldn't the same mechanic also render the WXF tile destruction obsolete? Seems like they are just picking on Kingpin.

Jaedenkaal

pheregas wrote:

Why would only Kingpin be affected by this? Wouldn't the same mechanic also render the WXF tile destruction obsolete? Seems like they are just picking on Kingpin.

Fortifying a Countdown For What tile would indeed prevent X-Force from destroying it. But that interaction would only happen on a GG/XFW/4Pool team. Green Goblin is not an ideal partner for 4Pool, and that's fine.

This change to Kingpin affects him even if Green Goblin is not present and the tiles are not fortified. King Pin is simply not capable of destroying countdown tiles, fortified or no, and therefore is NEVER able to blow up a CFW tile, which is the loss of functionality being highlighted here.

Phaserhawk

Here's my new response from cs


D3 Go! Customer Support (RK) (D3 Go!)
Mar 4, 09:25

Greetings D3 Go! Customer,

Thank you for contacting D3 Go! Customer Support.

We apologize for any confusion or misunderstanding regarding the issue. To clarify, the powers were not changed due to an issue that would arise. Instead, the changes were made to prevent Green Goblin (Normal Osborn) becoming to powerful with specific combinations, as these characters would essentially gain their second benefit without. Simply put, we nerfed Green Goblin (Normal Osborn) before he was released, and do apologize if this nerf indirectly affected other character combinations that you had experienced.

We are truly sorry for any inconvenience that has been caused to you, and are thankful for the feedback you have submitted. We take our customer's feedback very seriously and we will certainly discuss it with the rest of the team and take it into consideration. I have personally added your feedback to our database. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us again.

---

So what there logic is....

We supposedly nerfed Green Goblin by not allowing characters to double dip the CD tiles. So by their own arguement of why they did what they did, they did the same thing to King Pin but thats okay?

Instead of programming it where - Iceman, Kingpin, Mystique would just destroy the fortify and thus get no effect, they opted to change the wording which forced the game to work at the cost of Kingping because it would be unfair for them interacting with Norman, but it's okay to hurt Kingpin and Deadpool

My favorite part of it was "and do apologize if this nerf indirectly affected other character combinations that you had experienced." This isn't indirectly, this directly affects. You changed KingPin, not Norman, that's a direct action on him, not an indirect.

BlackSheep101

There's really no mystery to this. We all know why the change was made, we know what we'd have preferred to see (friendly countdown destruction blows up fortified tiles). I guarantee they chose their design because converting to basic tiles required far less development and testing time. If you're going to demand a response, the most you're going to get is an answer on compensation. And are you really going to sell a fully covered 4* like KP?

Phaserhawk

BlackSheep101 wrote:

There's really no mystery to this. We all know why the change was made, we know what we'd have preferred to see (friendly countdown destruction blows up fortified tiles). I guarantee they chose their design because converting to basic tiles required far less development and testing time. If you're going to demand a response, the most you're going to get is an answer on compensation. And are you really going to sell a fully covered 4* like KP?

In the end you are correct. But sometimes it's the journey that's more important. This is more than about compensation or balance etc. This is about making them actually understand or at least pretend to understand that the easiest path they keep taking is always becoming the harder one.

Moon Roach

I particularly like "I have personally added your feedback to our database."

Adding is a good first step. Looking at, analysing, fixing and responding are further steps that we don't see happen very often.

madsalad

Moon Roach wrote:

I particularly like "I have personally added your feedback to our database."

Adding is a good first step. Looking at, analysing, fixing and responding are further steps that we don't see happen very often.

I look at them "adding feedback to our databases" like that scene from the end of Raiders, except picture the Ark of the Covenant as your feedback, being rolled through a giant warehouse of other feedback, never to be seen by human eyes again.

madok

Moon Roach wrote:

I particularly like "I have personally added your feedback to our database."

Adding is a good first step. Looking at, analysing, fixing and responding are further steps that we don't see happen very often.

Kind of hard to do any of those additional steps when the first step means to burn it with nuclear fire.

Esheris

It would be nice if they would give a small buff to Kingpin in another way to make up for this, he isn't one of the over-used 4*'s (although he's far from bottom) so it seems like a tiny buff would be okay.
>_> Looking at you Purple ability.

XandorXerxes

Phaserhawk wrote:

Instead of programming it where - Iceman, Kingpin, Mystique would just destroy the fortify and thus get no effect, they opted to change the wording which forced the game to work at the cost of Kingping because it would be unfair for them interacting with Norman, but it's okay to hurt Kingpin and Deadpool.

That's actually a terrible idea for D3 to make. Do you know how many customer support calls they would take having to explain why the damage isn't occurring? It'd be "Goons get free AP bug" all over again.

BlackSheep101 wrote:

There's really no mystery to this. We all know why the change was made, we know what we'd have preferred to see (friendly countdown destruction blows up fortified tiles). I guarantee they chose their design because converting to basic tiles required far less development and testing time.

From what I understand, that's exactly what they used to have, and removed because it was too powerful. That means they spent twice as long developing it.

This really only impacts tiles that have an effect when destroyed while counting down. XFDP, XFW (yellow), and some ninjas? Am I missing anyone else?

udonomefoo

Phaserhawk wrote:

Here's my new response from cs

We apologize for any confusion or misunderstanding regarding the issue. To clarify, the powers were not changed due to an issue that would arise. Instead, the changes were made to prevent Green Goblin (Normal Osborn) becoming to powerful with specific combinations, as these characters would essentially gain their second benefit without. Simply put, we nerfed Green Goblin (Normal Osborn) before he was released, and do apologize if this nerf indirectly affected other character combinations that you had experienced.

I just want to point out that this statement is directly in opposition to the original fortify tile announcement found here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40337&hilit=fortify

Green Goblin introduces a new feature called Fortify Tiles. Tiles that are Fortified cannot be destroyed. Because of this, a few heroes were able to gain an unfair advantage when using a power that destroyed friendly tiles. To address this, we have changed a handful of abilities from destroying tiles to converting them to basic tiles. These abilities are:

So David says they changed heroes so they wouldn't have an unfair advantage, while CS says they changed Goblin so he wouldn't become too powerful.

Secondly, this isn't even a complete sentence:

Instead, the changes were made to prevent Green Goblin (Normal Osborn) becoming to powerful with specific combinations, as these characters would essentially gain their second benefit without.

Without what?

Moon Roach

madsalad wrote:

Moon Roach wrote:

I particularly like "I have personally added your feedback to our database."

Adding is a good first step. Looking at, analysing, fixing and responding are further steps that we don't see happen very often.

I look at them "adding feedback to our databases" like that scene from the end of Raiders, except picture the Ark of the Covenant as your feedback, being rolled through a giant warehouse of other feedback, never to be seen by human eyes again.

I like it. Much better than my initial idea, where it was more like cat $feedback > /dev/null.