There is no incentive in getting stronger

DD-The-Mighty

Marquoz wrote:

Zhirrzh wrote:

Yeah, this is my view too. That's how I came up as a new player (joining just before The Hunt started) and it was fine. I'd get the occasional 3* from a token or from the overall bracket of The Hunt or The Hulk but not enough to make it worth seriously levelling 3* characters until quite recently. Meanwhile newer people can now finish high with a mere 1* roster and rack up the 3* covers more easily than me!.

I feel the same. The hardest spot in this game is the middle of the pack. Players with really strong rosters can do all the content, PvP and PvE alike. Players with really weak rosters can do all the PvE content, earn lots of 3* cover rewards, not level them, and then earn even more 3* covers. It's folks who are trying to make the jump from 2* to 3* that have it hardest, since they don't have a strong enough team to win PvP events and don't have a weak enough team to win PvE events. Gah.

Pretty much. I assume OP and other disgruntled hi levelers are supermad about low levels getting thier preciuos 3 star covers.

My highest 2*'s (about 5) are all purposely capped at 50. my highest 3* is 38 Psylock . the main reason i do well is the new PVE setup has less to do with my MMR and more to do with my 4 page roster and a crapton of mediocre~not so mediocre 3*s. Its all about playing the rubbermand game and having all the nodes. and even then I only saw 1st place once. due to alot of players in my bracket not having DD. On average i see low top ten to 45 depending on difficulty. All this scapegoating about low-levels "dominating PVE" is somewhat true but greatly over-exaggerated. a team of 175+ hammerbros to me looks like a team of 230's to you. that's my limit. i skip the nodes and settle for my 1 gold coin.

Besides. Hi level roster holders, dominate almost all of pvp, especially Lightning rounds, which are tailor made for hi levelers looking to polish off thier 3*s. Overall, PVP yealds WAY more 3* cover gains than pve. Why not let a midleveler and under have it. its not like they can even do much with their 2 cover 3*s. As you said when they reach your level they will lose out on PVE as well.

I think a free to enter elite tournament would go a long way.

Puritas

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Pretty much. I assume OP and other disgruntled hi levelers are supermad about low levels getting thier preciuos 3 star covers.

My highest 2*'s (about 5) are all purposely capped at 50. my highest 3* is 38 Psylock . the main reason i do well is the new PVE setup has less to do with my MMR and more to do with my 4 page roster and a crapton of mediocre~not so mediocre 3*s. Its all about playing the rubbermand game and having all the nodes. and even then I only saw 1st place once. due to alot of players in my bracket not having DD. On average i see low top ten to 45 depending on difficulty. All this scapegoating about low-levels "dominating PVE" is somewhat true but greatly over-exaggerated. a team of 175+ hammerbros to me looks like a team of 230's to you. that's my limit. i skip the nodes and settle for my 1 gold coin.

Besides. Hi level roster holders, dominate almost all of pvp, especially Lightning rounds, which are tailor made for hi levelers looking to polish off thier 3*s. Overall, PVP yealds WAY more 3* cover gains than pve. Why not let a midleveler and under have it. its not like they can even do much with their 2 cover 3*s. As you said when they reach your level they will lose out on PVE as well.

I think a free to enter elite tournament would go a long way.

I find it somewhat amazing how much being wrong you can pack into such a small space

Unknown

morphy wrote:

I totally agree with OP , and your point about how you have been fighting lvl 141 opponents since you are lvl 99. So why bother maxing yourself out to 141 ?
I have a lvl 100+ team, i have no incentive to max them out
I have no incentive to get new characters because nothing will change in terms of winning.

In 6 months , they will probably release another dozen of 2* and 3* characters - and by doing nothing to collect ISO/HP or new characters - i would probably still kick **** with my existing Spidey/GSB/Hulk/Punisher combo.

So what's my incentive? I have actually stopped playing for the last 2 weeks and i don't think it made a difference to my team strength

Because Magneto instant kill combos isn't going to last forever so it's probably a good idea to eventually have level 141 guys to face against other level 141 guys? I mean, even without the cheese I can probably beat a 141X3 team with 3 level 100s, but it'd certainly be a lot easier if I have 3 level 141s instead of 3 level 100s. It's not a huge priority at the moment due to all the ways to totally dominate your opponent, but even when you've all the broken characters, sometimes the board just refuses to give you the 5 blue you need and having an extra 41 levels would still be quite handy. Not to mention it'll discourage people from attacking me when I'm defending, where none of my broken tricks work.

DD-The-Mighty

Puritas wrote:

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Pretty much. I assume OP and other disgruntled hi levelers are supermad about low levels getting thier preciuos 3 star covers.

My highest 2*'s (about 5) are all purposely capped at 50. my highest 3* is 38 Psylock . the main reason i do well is the new PVE setup has less to do with my MMR and more to do with my 4 page roster and a crapton of mediocre~not so mediocre 3*s. Its all about playing the rubbermand game and having all the nodes. and even then I only saw 1st place once. due to alot of players in my bracket not having DD. On average i see low top ten to 45 depending on difficulty. All this scapegoating about low-levels "dominating PVE" is somewhat true but greatly over-exaggerated. a team of 175+ hammerbros to me looks like a team of 230's to you. that's my limit. i skip the nodes and settle for my 1 gold coin.

Besides. Hi level roster holders, dominate almost all of pvp, especially Lightning rounds, which are tailor made for hi levelers looking to polish off thier 3*s. Overall, PVP yealds WAY more 3* cover gains than pve. Why not let a midleveler and under have it. its not like they can even do much with their 2 cover 3*s. As you said when they reach your level they will lose out on PVE as well.

I think a free to enter elite tournament would go a long way.

I find it somewhat amazing how much being wrong you can pack into such a small space

Wow, you really showed me. Excellent points you've brought up there. I was wrong. --Oh wait. You did none of that.
Enlighten us by giving that crazy general discussion thing a try.

Puritas

- anyone at a high level doesn't care too much about *** covers apart from the rare one they're missing, it's more frustration that it's so difficult to compete with *-** rosters that can climb to 1k+ without being attacked

- actual roster level seems to contribute to scaling but isn't the most important thing. My roster's at the 100-141 range, and I've managed to get my enemies down to 75-125 this event.

- you're hitting top 10-45 and say there aren't low levels in your range. Wanna know why? They're sitting up in top 5 with us

- Only PvP "dominated" by high roster players are arguably LRs. In anything else it's a huge **** involving a lot of metagame abuse to actually place first, and the competition is never anyone with a single hero over level 90.


...but then again if you actually read this thread before weighing in you'd know all this.

Unknown

Kappei wrote:

I'd like to add my point of view as a relatively new player (36 days... wow, I really thought it was less ).

Even if it seems that newcomers have it easier, it doesn't mean it stays easy. As CeeEssGee already said, there's a point where you hit a wall, where the MMR gods don't help you anymore and even boosting and skipping only makes you face unsormuntable team comps. That's the moment where you have to keep growing, where you get back to the prologue for those remaining HPs and covers and sweet sweet 500-iso rewards, because all your 3*s with one or two covers won't help you here and your 2*s roster is seriously lacking.

This is the incentive in getting stronger, so you can advance in the game. At this point every match is a risk and every victory comes at a great loss and your health packs are never enough. At this point if you keep trying to play as before you'll fail, hard, and there's no amount of tanking that's going to change that. But every bit of iso and every HP lets you get better, makes things a little easier. You'll never get back the easy tournament placements of the first days, but every victory becomes a satisfaction.

Either this or you $pend lot$ of fat $tack$ of ca$h. (and you're going to stop playing in a couple of weeks then)

When I started playing, a month ago, I dropped the prologue halfway through the Oscorp episode, because at the same time the Heroic Oscorp came out, and it was easier for me, and it stayed easy for a while. In the last week though I had to get back to the prologue (having a hard time to complete the last chapter too), to improve my roster and level up my low level 2*s. It's not easy anymore, but it's surely funnier and definitely more strategic. I have to weight every battle, pondering if I can go in half-damaged or if I have to heal, blocking my advancements for the next hour.

For those that complain that new players are jumping directly to 3* chars: it's not like that. Sure, I have 5-6 1-cover characters, but they're not helping me. Did I "stole" those from you in a previous tournament? Maybe, but in the next one you'll still be in the top 45, while I'll be getting my 20th Captain America cover (seriously devs, this is ridiculous, stop giving us the Cap). Stop being grumpy and enjoy the competition! (And bite my dust when I'll be getting the first place in a future event )

Perhaps someone like Phantron can straighten something out for me pertaining to this discussion on newcomers.

For instance, if someone relatively new competes with their 1* team in a PVP and had great success to achieve a placement in the Top 5 and therefore receives 2 3* covers. Would this player now have a MMR stating that he/she is stronger and should be able to take on more difficult opponents (ie mid to high level 2*) going forward?

Let me use a different example. If a new player got a Recruit token and was given a 4* IW cover, would the player now be in a disadvantage cause the MMR thinks the player is stronger?

I ask these questions cause it goes along with the other comments concerning not gradually growing your skills as a player. Using the typical progression scale. If my comments are true, then these new players would celebrate their good fortune one day and then be in tears the next as stronger players will have a feast on inferior heroes. No tanking would be required cause the MMR would make them available to superior teams.

So it wouldn't necessarily be in newcomer's best interest to aim for the top too soon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

DD-The-Mighty

Puritas wrote:

- anyone at a high level doesn't care too much about *** covers apart from the rare one they're missing, it's more frustration that it's so difficult to compete with *-** rosters that can climb to 1k+ without being attacked -and you know they absolutely never get attacked, how? Do you want to compete with other hi levers for the same rewards? less whining, more saying what you want, since its clearly not covers. and i hardly think you speak for all hi level players.

- actual roster level seems to contribute to scaling but isn't the most important thing. My roster's at the 100-141 range, and I've managed to get my enemies down to 75-125 this event. -Then why are you complaining?

- you're hitting top 10-45 and say there aren't low levels in your range. Wanna know why? They're sitting up in top 5 with us -oh noes. what a crime! That nooby is gonna get a 4* cover you could easily get in PVP. Its a modern day Greek tragedy!

- Only PvP "dominated" by high roster players are arguably LRs. In anything else it's a huge **** involving a lot of metagame abuse to actually place first, and the competition is never anyone with a single hero over level 90. - so you say. but anyway-- you have the roster to dominate non LR pvp, but its too much work, and you're angry that some one with a lower level roster than you did put in the "huge ****" and they are somehow undeserved?


...but then again if you actually read this thread before weighing in you'd know all this.-mature

boo hoo hoo, someone without your awesome roster got a cover you yourself admit to not even caring about.

You seem more interested in dismissing me than you do discussing the topic at hand -the obvious lack of endgame problem, ans somewhat incomplete game-.

whatever, stay mad and snark on. In the meantime I have to go get some covers you don't want.

Puritas

your reading comprehension skills are amazing

LordWill

ClydeFrog76 wrote:

The answer?

NON-COMPETITIVE PVE

I loved working through the prologue, getting stronger and taking on harder fights. The latest events mean nothing, because they are ALL against level 230s. No sense of progression, just a slog from the outset and grind grind grind.

Boss fights wouldn't go amiss either, with characters that aren't available for our rosters, like Dino.

+1

Unknown

Please don't spill blood on my thread tyvm

AsianInvasion wrote:

My 141 Patch, 128 Hulk, 110 Punisher, 107 Magneto, and 100 Spidey cound not disagree more.

You get attacked less during PVP events.
You can grind for hours without using a health pack.
You can mow through lev 230 goons like it's a prologue mission
You can stop tanking like a **** and forget about MMR all together.

What more incentive do you need to make your team stronger?

I hope you all realize that point 2 and 3 are going to be moot once the super stun healer called Spiderman gets nerfed into oblivion, yes?

My main reason of digruntlement is that scrubs can do pve in 20 minutes finishing all nodes multiple times, fighting all lvls 20ish with their boosted lvl 20 heroes that are equals to 100+, sporting a top lvl of IM35 lvl 27, and for me to obtain the same result takes around 3 hours of grinding the 230s, over the same exact rewards (so, my time spent over reward ratio sucks terribly compared to theirs). And yes thanks, I'm using Patch+Spidey shortcut as well, can play for hours etc.

Still takes ages and feels boring and unrewarding.

So yes, I want more entitlment over my time spent playing (not as cumulated time veteran **** do, just taking in consideration event per event) not this horrible form of power punishment / diminishing rewards. I am completely happy if noobs take my same rewards if they spend the same amount of effort over them, more than happy actually because they probably need them more than me. But having to crawl, suffer and toil while they effortlessly fly above me, is really insulting.

LordWill

Il Palazzo wrote:

Please don't spill blood on my thread tyvm

AsianInvasion wrote:

My 141 Patch, 128 Hulk, 110 Punisher, 107 Magneto, and 100 Spidey cound not disagree more.

You get attacked less during PVP events.
You can grind for hours without using a health pack.
You can mow through lev 230 goons like it's a prologue mission
You can stop tanking like a **** and forget about MMR all together.

What more incentive do you need to make your team stronger?

I hope you all realize that point 2 and 3 are going to be moot once the super stun healer called Spiderman gets nerfed into oblivion, yes?

My main reason of digruntlement is that scrubs can do pve in 20 minutes finishing all nodes multiple times, fighting all lvls 20ish with their boosted lvl 20 heroes that are equals to 100+, sporting a top lvl of IM35 lvl 27, and for me to obtain the same result takes around 3 hours of grinding the 230s, over the same exact rewards (so, my time spent over reward ratio sucks terribly compared to theirs). And yes thanks, I'm using Patch+Spidey shortcut as well, can play for hours etc.

Still takes ages and feels boring and unrewarding.

So yes, I want more entitlment over my time spent playing (not as cumulated time veteran **** do, just taking in consideration event per event) not this horrible form of power punishment / diminishing rewards. I am completely happy if noobs take my same rewards if they spend the same amount of effort over them, more than happy actually because they probably need them more than me. But having to crawl, suffer and toil while they effortlessly fly above me, is really insulting.

10000% Agree with everything you said. If they are going to do scaling as a rule, scale the rewards up for level of encounter at least or something. But well said...

Unknown

morphy wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Getting stronger doesn't mean you get to stomp guys who are still using 1* roster. But even if they did that, the people who claim there's no advantage to leveling would still be crying about guys like AsianInvasion who would be stomping on your team if there's nothing stopping a 141X3 from just hitting anybody at will.

The advantage of having a high level roster is significant but not insurmountable. If you're still complaining about "MMR hell", you're nowhere close to having the ability to always do well in tournament. I have been fighting level 141 opponents since I was level 99, and that's never really slowed me down, espcially given several of the game's most broken characters have an overwhelming advantage on offense.

I totally agree with OP , and your point about how you have been fighting lvl 141 opponents since you are lvl 99. So why bother maxing yourself out to 141 ?
I have a lvl 100+ team, i have no incentive to max them out
I have no incentive to get new characters because nothing will change in terms of winning.

In 6 months , they will probably release another dozen of 2* and 3* characters - and by doing nothing to collect ISO/HP or new characters - i would probably still kick **** with my existing Spidey/GSB/Hulk/Punisher combo.

So what's my incentive? I have actually stopped playing for the last 2 weeks and i don't think it made a difference to my team strength

That's why they really need to push out an xforce buff, nd one that makes him noticeably (but not broken) better than any alternative strike tile generator that isn't also a 4****. They need to start pushing out character in a ratio of about 1:3:1 in ascending order of rarity. So of every 5 released, 1 should be a 2**, 3 should be ***, and 1 4****. 3*** are the neat and potatoes of the game, but as it is set up now they are the end game and the 4**** are for collectors. That isn't the proper progression. As for 1*...I don't know if the game needs then. They somewhat are the "tutorial" characters of the game. I would rather they just make everything 2** rarity and up. That's just my opinion though.

Unknown

In my bracket, Sandmaker with his lvl35 roster is making the same 85k points as Jozier

Polares

KaioShinDE wrote:

I have yet to hear a convincing argument why the scaling needs to be there for newer players in the first place. There was a clear progression path before PvE scaling. I know it because I went through it myself just a few weeks ago.

You build a 1* team in the prologue and you grab a few free recruitment tokens from low PvP tourneys rank. Then with a fully leveled 1* team you can easily rank in the 2* reward ranks in events. That way you build up a 2* roster. THEN you move up to 3*s.

That is how the system worked and how it worked FINE. Now every level 10 noob should have a shot at 3* rewards? Why ffs? He doesn't deserve it. Meanwhile I get punished for having invested 130 hours into the game with enemies that one-shot you if you make even one mistake.

The logic behind this baffles the mind. After several tournaments in a row with this **** I'm strongly considering quitting. It's just not worth it. I guess this game goes the FPS route of milking new players in their first 10 hours of playtime as much as possible and then taking a fat dump on them and shoving them out of the door to make room for fresh meat.

I agree with you completely.

I know I am not going to stop playing until Dark Souls 2 comes out, but the process before was really better. I am in a point now with a 115 Patch, 105IM40, 100 Punisher, 99 Spidey, etc. where I can win the 230 level fights, but sometimes they are sooooo long it gets boring (The other day I was playing with Patch, Magneto NN and Spidey, and Patch was killed in a slip I forget to stun one of the 230s. I won the fight, but it was like 25min long :S:S:S:S). And when I start the sub-events now there are no scaling, they are allways 220+ level (the easy and the hard one). I love hard battles, but If all of them are hard sometimes the game is a little stressfull, I would love sometimes to do some easy battles and relax and feel powerful (now most of the time if I make a mistake, a character dies).

This event is not that bad, but the last really good event I think it was the Hulk one if my memory don't fail (witch does a lot )

PD: And it really is discouraging seeing all these newbies in the first positions of all the events

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

In my bracket, Sandmaker with his lvl35 roster is making the same 85k points as Jozier

I just wish they'd disclose the scaling formula. I'm not entirely convinced it's implemented correctly, even after the the fix they did during Thick as Thieves. There's probably something very unexpected in there that factors in high, like the total number of covers in the roster, otherwise that lvl35 roster would be seeing some hurt after a week of top placements.

morgh

So I should seriously drop the idea of levelling my 2**'s over 75 ? :S seems counterintuitive... with what I have I can deal with everything PvE-wise up to level ~130; PvP is a different story since anything over lvl 90 swiftly destroys me

My other issue is that I have a Spidey without healing and OBW with only 1 cover in healing :S

Unknown

Saying random guy with awesome roster has about the same point as a level 50 highest character isn't saying much because you don't know how much effort both characters are putting in the event. The game always gave considerable advantage to the guy willing to play more, and a guy with awesome roster only needs a top 10 overall finish and might not be competing very hard.

Unknown

When you see the same level 35-50 guy topping multiple events, then you can consider it. So far the only names I recognize routinely at the top of brackets are, you guessed it, the top teams.

Unknown

I currently have nothing more than 2 lvl 85 2* heroes and only one decent (playable) 3* heroes, lvl 79.

All of my opponents in pve start at level ~190, and i think they grow rapidly lvl 230. They're far too powerful to be beaten by my present roster and i have almost no choice in various heroes as only three or four of them have decent levels.

Thanks to level scaling, i can't play no more. I don't say that this level scaling is a bad thing, but the way it has been implemented is a terrible joke. But as devs don't care, so do i as i can't and won't play this game anymore.