There is no incentive in getting stronger

Unknown

Not to mention they haven't added a 5* yet

Unknown

KaioShinDE wrote:

I have yet to hear a convincing argument why the scaling needs to be there for newer players in the first place. There was a clear progression path before PvE scaling. I know it because I went through it myself just a few weeks ago.

You build a 1* team in the prologue and you grab a few free recruitment tokens from low PvP tourneys rank. Then with a fully leveled 1* team you can easily rank in the 2* reward ranks in events. That way you build up a 2* roster. THEN you move up to 3*s.

That is how the system worked and how it worked FINE. Now every level 10 noob should have a shot at 3* rewards? Why ffs? He doesn't deserve it. Meanwhile I get punished for having invested 130 hours into the game with enemies that one-shot you if you make even one mistake.

The logic behind this baffles the mind. After several tournaments in a row with this **** I'm strongly considering quitting. It's just not worth it. I guess this game goes the FPS route of milking new players in their first 10 hours of playtime as much as possible and then taking a fat dump on them and shoving them out of the door to make room for fresh meat.

Current setup puts the most stress and frustration on mid-level two star teams. You don't benefit from the newbie scaling, you don't have the might of a three star roster and you're MMR probably puts you out of newbie matchmaking range, but still within the sights of high levels teams who have tanked their way into your MMR tier. I'm just glad I was able to play my way out of this quagmire before the Thorverine nerf. Getting Spidey covers early really accelerates this process, not sure what the catalyst will be when they inevitably nerf Spidey as well.

Unknown

Getting stronger doesn't mean you get to stomp guys who are still using 1* roster. But even if they did that, the people who claim there's no advantage to leveling would still be crying about guys like AsianInvasion who would be stomping on your team if there's nothing stopping a 141X3 from just hitting anybody at will.

The advantage of having a high level roster is significant but not insurmountable. If you're still complaining about "MMR hell", you're nowhere close to having the ability to always do well in tournament. I have been fighting level 141 opponents since I was level 99, and that's never really slowed me down, espcially given several of the game's most broken characters have an overwhelming advantage on offense.

Unknown

AsianInvasion wrote:

Current setup puts the most stress and frustration on mid-level two star teams. You don't benefit from the newbie scaling, you don't have the might of a three star roster and you're MMR probably puts you out of newbie matchmaking range, but still within the sights of high levels teams who have tanked their way into your MMR tier. I'm just glad I was able to play my way out of this quagmire before the Thorverine nerf. Getting Spidey covers early really accelerates this process, not sure what the catalyst will be when they inevitably nerf Spidey as well.

I'm not so sure about that. There's always a guy in the top 5 whose highest character is a level 85 and they obviously must have a very favorable matchup to get there.

I think you can do quite well with a 2* roster if you taken time to level up the relevent 2*. For example in Magnetic Mayhem, I'd imagine a level 85 MN Magneto + OBW + whoever is going to dominate the 2* bracket pretty easily.

Unknown

AsianInvasion wrote:

My 141 Patch, 128 Hulk, 110 Punisher, 107 Magneto, and 100 Spidey cound not disagree more.

You get attacked less during PVP events.
You can grind for hours without using a health pack.
You can mow through lev 230 goons like it's a prologue mission
You can stop tanking like a **** and forget about MMR all together.

What more incentive do you need to make your team stronger?

Maybe a little bit of love on your way there? The center field is also getting those level 230 goons, and between newcomers winning due to low level opponents and endgamers winning due to their maxed roster it's really tough making any progress at all. Feels a lot like having to run uphill while the competitors get a free ride.

Unknown

pandaberry6 wrote:

Thank you for sharing your perspective on the game as a newer player. I have been curious what happened to the newer players who were able to dominate recent pves with 1* and 2* rosters. I am certain you can bust through the wall you hit if you keep playing. It sounds like you have a solid perspective on how to keep moving up. So, did you play the prologue before hopping into the pvp and pve events? How much of the prologue did you go through? Do you think the wall you hit due to lack of iso (your characters levels were too low?) or lack of iso (not enough cover slots, lack of roster diversity?). What do you find most challenging in the game now - pve or pvp?

I went back and forth. Whenever there was an event, I would participate, but also work on prologue when I can. I started shortly because heroic oscorp and was done the prologue by the PVE event after heroic oscorp (missing one or two missions).

PVP: At the low low levels I couldn't really do much, but I think that is primarily because the first thing I did was rank up as high as I could in the simulator. That probably increased my MMR by a fair amount which made PVP quite difficult. I was able to get top 50 a few times with a lot less time and effort than I do now, HOWEVER, because I didn't have the ability to heal nor did I have a diverse roster, I couldn't get much further. I should also point that I did spend about $20 on the game to get a larger roster and a few covers (the covers were complete **** btw).

Mostly I hit a wall because I kept facing enemies that were a lot higher than me or just so painful to beat (e.g. 50 IM35/40 Jugg/ 50 MStorm) that I would run out of health packs in 1-2 matches. Really I think that a lot of the newbies that get high in ranking do so because they get really lucky with covers. That makes a huge difference, and I was quite unlucky (still am actually.. I've gotten about 20 purple covers for Moonstone).

PVE: Part of the problem is that no one really understands how scaling occurs with PVE. Does it have anything to do with your character levels or roster size, how often you win/lose, randomness? People say that low levels make PVE far easier, but my first PVE was oscorp heroic and I couldn't complete all of the missions, let alone grind each one down. Again, not having the buffed covers really hurts. Each PVE event has been mixed for me, mainly being able to finish top 100 in the main bracket and top 50 in the sub-brackets, but with a LOT of time spent; more time than anyone should be spending on a match three game.

I think in the end while you may face more challenges at a higher level, the diverse roster really does help out immensely. However, I still do think there needs to be some tweaks for both PVP and PVE side. I just don't think that the reference to DnD is appropriate, because this game is at its heart a competitive game. In a competitive game, the heavyweights shouldn't be fighting the lightweights.

Unknown

I dunno. I've literally just got my Hulk over 100, meaning I now have two chars in that range (the other being IM40).

Pluses:

- personal satisfaction. I'm gradually transitioning to a 3* roster, and it's exciting to be making that progress ( though not as fast as I'd like!)
- different game mechanic. I'm moving away from my usual 2* go-to team, and diversifying. IM40 feeding Red to M Storm can be fun. GSBW feeding Green to Hulk - hoboy. Lightning Rounds with both boosted Hulk and IM40? Not getting attacked too much. So yeah, I'm actually using my roster more, which is cool.
~ sidebar: I loved loved loved simulator for this reason. Forcing you out of your comfort zone was a great idea.
- finally competing. I've pushed through that 2* hell that was described above. That was my hell for about a month. A roster of (nerfed!) lvl 85s vs people with 2-3 >100s was tough. Now I feel like my roster has caught up a little with my MMR. Hopefully that will last a while!

So there are good reasons to continue progressing.

However, I do agree that when faced with longer, tougher battles it would be nice if the rewards matched the effort!

Unknown

I'd like to add my point of view as a relatively new player (36 days... wow, I really thought it was less ).

Even if it seems that newcomers have it easier, it doesn't mean it stays easy. As CeeEssGee already said, there's a point where you hit a wall, where the MMR gods don't help you anymore and even boosting and skipping only makes you face unsormuntable team comps. That's the moment where you have to keep growing, where you get back to the prologue for those remaining HPs and covers and sweet sweet 500-iso rewards, because all your 3*s with one or two covers won't help you here and your 2*s roster is seriously lacking.

This is the incentive in getting stronger, so you can advance in the game. At this point every match is a risk and every victory comes at a great loss and your health packs are never enough. At this point if you keep trying to play as before you'll fail, hard, and there's no amount of tanking that's going to change that. But every bit of iso and every HP lets you get better, makes things a little easier. You'll never get back the easy tournament placements of the first days, but every victory becomes a satisfaction.

Either this or you $pend lot$ of fat $tack$ of ca$h. (and you're going to stop playing in a couple of weeks then)

When I started playing, a month ago, I dropped the prologue halfway through the Oscorp episode, because at the same time the Heroic Oscorp came out, and it was easier for me, and it stayed easy for a while. In the last week though I had to get back to the prologue (having a hard time to complete the last chapter too), to improve my roster and level up my low level 2*s. It's not easy anymore, but it's surely funnier and definitely more strategic. I have to weight every battle, pondering if I can go in half-damaged or if I have to heal, blocking my advancements for the next hour.

For those that complain that new players are jumping directly to 3* chars: it's not like that. Sure, I have 5-6 1-cover characters, but they're not helping me. Did I "stole" those from you in a previous tournament? Maybe, but in the next one you'll still be in the top 45, while I'll be getting my 20th Captain America cover (seriously devs, this is ridiculous, stop giving us the Cap). Stop being grumpy and enjoy the competition! (And bite my dust when I'll be getting the first place in a future event )

LordWill

I agree with most of what has been said about the game being slanted toward lowbies and newcomers.

They still have a long ways to go, and I think they are working on it to an extent. However one thing I haven't really heard come up is about the money.

I think how much they are making is a factor in how they shape the game. So if they are happy with making $50,000 a week and you decide the game just doesn't seem fun anymore or no incentives, they aren't going to take that much of a hit. 3 other people will take your place and they won't blink an eye. So from their perspective, everything is awesome and there isn't an issue because they look at how much money was generated that week and probably think everything is fine and if it wasn't we wouldn't be making boatloads of money so there must not be any issue.

I base this on a few things IceIX said about looking at the reports and seeing nothing wrong in a few cases with certain issues, for example how much iso has been injected in the game etc. It must be how they make a lot of the decisions based on pure numbers than anything else. So you facing 3x230 level mobs every fight isn't as important as catering to the masses. It happens in just about every MMO/RPG.

It has been fairly clear from Demiurge Will that this is THEIR game and vision and it doesn't really matter what we want at the end of the day. At least thats how he came off. If we aren't being challenged enough then the game is not working as intended from their viewpoint. So I guess what incentive they want you to have to progress is to hit the wall and pay more and more to get over that wall.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game. I just wish we could see some light at the end of the tunnel sometimes.

Puritas

Hey d3
You should pay attn to this thread, bc clearly your newbie handholding scheme is just making players feel frustrated entitlement once it ends, so its not actually working out for them either

And nobody else likes it at all

Unknown

CeeEssGee wrote:

I went back and forth. Whenever there was an event, I would participate, but also work on prologue when I can. I started shortly because heroic oscorp and was done the prologue by the PVE event after heroic oscorp (missing one or two missions).

PVP: At the low low levels I couldn't really do much, but I think that is primarily because the first thing I did was rank up as high as I could in the simulator. That probably increased my MMR by a fair amount which made PVP quite difficult. I was able to get top 50 a few times with a lot less time and effort than I do now, HOWEVER, because I didn't have the ability to heal nor did I have a diverse roster, I couldn't get much further. I should also point that I did spend about $20 on the game to get a larger roster and a few covers (the covers were complete **** btw).

Mostly I hit a wall because I kept facing enemies that were a lot higher than me or just so painful to beat (e.g. 50 IM35/40 Jugg/ 50 MStorm) that I would run out of health packs in 1-2 matches. Really I think that a lot of the newbies that get high in ranking do so because they get really lucky with covers. That makes a huge difference, and I was quite unlucky (still am actually.. I've gotten about 20 purple covers for Moonstone).

PVE: Part of the problem is that no one really understands how scaling occurs with PVE. Does it have anything to do with your character levels or roster size, how often you win/lose, randomness? People say that low levels make PVE far easier, but my first PVE was oscorp heroic and I couldn't complete all of the missions, let alone grind each one down. Again, not having the buffed covers really hurts. Each PVE event has been mixed for me, mainly being able to finish top 100 in the main bracket and top 50 in the sub-brackets, but with a LOT of time spent; more time than anyone should be spending on a match three game.

I think in the end while you may face more challenges at a higher level, the diverse roster really does help out immensely. However, I still do think there needs to be some tweaks for both PVP and PVE side. I just don't think that the reference to DnD is appropriate, because this game is at its heart a competitive game. In a competitive game, the heavyweights shouldn't be fighting the lightweights.

Yeah... Moonstone is probably the most awkward character ever. She is not flat out terrible like Bag Man but I would not invest iso in her either. I can see what you are saying about luck (or lack thereof) in cover pulls making a huge difference in progressing through the game midway through. Rewards are shifting more and more towards tokens whereas they used to be guaranteed covers. Nowadays it is super rare for Spidey to be a pvp tourny reward - he used to be an award in pvp tourneys every few weeks. And I think Spidey and/or OBE is necessary to keep progressing in the mid-game.

Unknown

pandaberry6 wrote:

CeeEssGee wrote:

I went back and forth. Whenever there was an event, I would participate, but also work on prologue when I can. I started shortly because heroic oscorp and was done the prologue by the PVE event after heroic oscorp (missing one or two missions).

PVP: At the low low levels I couldn't really do much, but I think that is primarily because the first thing I did was rank up as high as I could in the simulator. That probably increased my MMR by a fair amount which made PVP quite difficult. I was able to get top 50 a few times with a lot less time and effort than I do now, HOWEVER, because I didn't have the ability to heal nor did I have a diverse roster, I couldn't get much further. I should also point that I did spend about $20 on the game to get a larger roster and a few covers (the covers were complete **** btw).

Mostly I hit a wall because I kept facing enemies that were a lot higher than me or just so painful to beat (e.g. 50 IM35/40 Jugg/ 50 MStorm) that I would run out of health packs in 1-2 matches. Really I think that a lot of the newbies that get high in ranking do so because they get really lucky with covers. That makes a huge difference, and I was quite unlucky (still am actually.. I've gotten about 20 purple covers for Moonstone).

PVE: Part of the problem is that no one really understands how scaling occurs with PVE. Does it have anything to do with your character levels or roster size, how often you win/lose, randomness? People say that low levels make PVE far easier, but my first PVE was oscorp heroic and I couldn't complete all of the missions, let alone grind each one down. Again, not having the buffed covers really hurts. Each PVE event has been mixed for me, mainly being able to finish top 100 in the main bracket and top 50 in the sub-brackets, but with a LOT of time spent; more time than anyone should be spending on a match three game.

I think in the end while you may face more challenges at a higher level, the diverse roster really does help out immensely. However, I still do think there needs to be some tweaks for both PVP and PVE side. I just don't think that the reference to DnD is appropriate, because this game is at its heart a competitive game. In a competitive game, the heavyweights shouldn't be fighting the lightweights.

Yeah... Moonstone is probably the most awkward character ever. She is not flat out terrible like Bag Man but I would not invest iso in her either. I can see what you are saying about luck (or lack thereof) in cover pulls making a huge difference in progressing through the game midway through. Rewards are shifting more and more towards tokens whereas they used to be guaranteed covers. Nowadays it is super rare for Spidey to be a pvp tourny reward - he used to be an award in pvp tourneys every few weeks. And I think Spidey and/or OBE is necessary to keep progressing in the mid-game.

Like many characters, she's fine in a tourney that highlights her. She's not bad in No Man's Land and solid in a DA tourney.

Unknown

Moonstone is probably above average overall given that she's usable in an environment where her strengths (dealing with CD tiles) is currently useless. I'm sure there's going to be some kind of eventual effort to make CD tiles worth using. In the current environment she's fairly average, because there's no CD dangerous enough to worry about stopping.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

Like many characters, she's fine in a tourney that highlights her. She's not bad in No Man's Land and solid in a DA tourney.

Oh don't get me wrong, Moonstone has kicked my **** with her Photon Blast quite a few times so i know she is capable... It is just that she is an awkward fit for how I play. And no matter who i team her with her abilities feel cumbersome and forced. I had extra covers of her so I thought i could make her more useful by repeccing her so i looked at her character discussion page for some insight into how I could use her more effectively and I did change her up - next time she is buffed i will try her again and see if the respec helped.

Unknown

I have no problem with moonstone actually, though she isn't so good with defence in PVP. The real problem is that you not only have to get lucky with which characters you get, but which colours you get. I wasn't exaggerating; I got about 18 purples, and no red. With Thor, the only yellow I had until yesterday was the one from the prologue and yet I had about 10 reds.

So yes, if you get really lucky with the right covers when you are a newbie the game can be very easy, and you can really jump start your progression. Otherwise, you can actually get hit by "MMR hell" quite early.. especially if you spend too much time in the simulator.

Unknown

pandaberry6 wrote:

jozier wrote:

Like many characters, she's fine in a tourney that highlights her. She's not bad in No Man's Land and solid in a DA tourney.

Oh don't get me wrong, Moonstone has kicked my **** with her Photon Blast quite a few times so i know she is capable... It is just that she is an awkward fit for how I play. And no matter who i team her with her abilities feel cumbersome and forced. I had extra covers of her so I thought i could make her more useful by repeccing her so i looked at her character discussion page for some insight into how I could use her more effectively and I did change her up - next time she is buffed i will try her again and see if the respec helped.

Moonstone is meant to be about average against normal characters and superb against characters with CDs. Problem is that there is no strong characters that depend on CD abilities in this game so she's pretty average most of the time.

Imagine if Maggia Muscle was added as a playable character, Moonstone would also get instantly catapulted to top tier because you can be sure you'll see a Maggia Muscle on everyone's team, and suddenly Control Shift is quite overpowered when you can steal a Tommy Gun or a Threaten.

Unknown

KaioShinDE wrote:

I have yet to hear a convincing argument why the scaling needs to be there for newer players in the first place. There was a clear progression path before PvE scaling. I know it because I went through it myself just a few weeks ago.

You build a 1* team in the prologue and you grab a few free recruitment tokens from low PvP tourneys rank. Then with a fully leveled 1* team you can easily rank in the 2* reward ranks in events. That way you build up a 2* roster. THEN you move up to 3*s.

That is how the system worked and how it worked FINE. Now every level 10 noob should have a shot at 3* rewards? Why ffs? He doesn't deserve it. Meanwhile I get punished for having invested 130 hours into the game with enemies that one-shot you if you make even one mistake.

The logic behind this baffles the mind. After several tournaments in a row with this **** I'm strongly considering quitting. It's just not worth it. I guess this game goes the FPS route of milking new players in their first 10 hours of playtime as much as possible and then taking a fat dump on them and shoving them out of the door to make room for fresh meat.

Yeah, this is my view too. That's how I came up as a new player (joining just before The Hunt started) and it was fine. I'd get the occasional 3* from a token or from the overall bracket of The Hunt or The Hulk but not enough to make it worth seriously levelling 3* characters until quite recently. Meanwhile newer people can now finish high with a mere 1* roster and rack up the 3* covers more easily than me!

I still like getting Iso and covers so I can use different characters and different tactics, but it's annoying that all of this levelling and effort doesn't make it easier for me to win- quite the opposite.

The PVP matchmaking especially needs to change so that we get matched against people based on our current score (plus or minus 100 points) and not based on MMR. Actually wouldn't mind it if they changed PVP so that it matches people only within the bracket, so every game is not only about gaining points for you but also knocking points off someone competing with you.

Unknown

Zhirrzh wrote:

Yeah, this is my view too. That's how I came up as a new player (joining just before The Hunt started) and it was fine. I'd get the occasional 3* from a token or from the overall bracket of The Hunt or The Hulk but not enough to make it worth seriously levelling 3* characters until quite recently. Meanwhile newer people can now finish high with a mere 1* roster and rack up the 3* covers more easily than me!.

I feel the same. The hardest spot in this game is the middle of the pack. Players with really strong rosters can do all the content, PvP and PvE alike. Players with really weak rosters can do all the PvE content, earn lots of 3* cover rewards, not level them, and then earn even more 3* covers. It's folks who are trying to make the jump from 2* to 3* that have it hardest, since they don't have a strong enough team to win PvP events and don't have a weak enough team to win PvE events. Gah.

ClydeFrog76

The answer?

NON-COMPETITIVE PVE

I loved working through the prologue, getting stronger and taking on harder fights. The latest events mean nothing, because they are ALL against level 230s. No sense of progression, just a slog from the outset and grind grind grind.

Boss fights wouldn't go amiss either, with characters that aren't available for our rosters, like Dino.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Getting stronger doesn't mean you get to stomp guys who are still using 1* roster. But even if they did that, the people who claim there's no advantage to leveling would still be crying about guys like AsianInvasion who would be stomping on your team if there's nothing stopping a 141X3 from just hitting anybody at will.

The advantage of having a high level roster is significant but not insurmountable. If you're still complaining about "MMR hell", you're nowhere close to having the ability to always do well in tournament. I have been fighting level 141 opponents since I was level 99, and that's never really slowed me down, espcially given several of the game's most broken characters have an overwhelming advantage on offense.

I totally agree with OP , and your point about how you have been fighting lvl 141 opponents since you are lvl 99. So why bother maxing yourself out to 141 ?
I have a lvl 100+ team, i have no incentive to max them out
I have no incentive to get new characters because nothing will change in terms of winning.

In 6 months , they will probably release another dozen of 2* and 3* characters - and by doing nothing to collect ISO/HP or new characters - i would probably still kick **** with my existing Spidey/GSB/Hulk/Punisher combo.

So what's my incentive? I have actually stopped playing for the last 2 weeks and i don't think it made a difference to my team strength