Two thought about the current red decks

Unknown

I mean, or you could play 2 consuls for less mana.

Or an angel...or relic seeker...

The point is you will never actually want to play her in your hand when you have other options.

She isn't BAD, it is just everything else in white is better.

span_argoman

Consuls are 12 mana 4/3 (Renown 1), so double casting that is 5 mana more than casting Iroas. That's for an additional 1/1, the +1/+1 to others when renowned+attacking and without the double benefit that Gideon's abilities provide to Iroas. I wouldn't say it's clearly better. Situationally better, yes. But I can have both in my deck.

Relic Seeker is a better card, agreed. I would definitely try to summon that first. But I don't have that card yet =X

Archangel of Tithes (I assume you mean that when you say Angel) is nice but I'm guessing it doesn't pay off as much for PvP because you're trying to minimise damage from battles so that you can continue quick battling so you are already trying to minimise enemy creature attacks aka the triggers for Archangel's ability. I don't have this card yet either so I can't say this for sure.

VacaNeon

Glad to have you here Panda.

Do you know any deck that allows you to farm 80+ points in an hour?
(which is 3.75mins per game in average)

At the moment, I can only do 50 pts/hr with my best red deck.
(which is 6 mins per game in average, and this speed can only be achieved with a good starting hand)

In my previous bracket, I saw someone (Dar***) was farming points in such amazing speed which I can only minimize the gap when he was having a rest.
It was a pity QB did not assign me to play against his deck so I can check what cards he was using...

paralistalon

I think the interesting discussion here is what makes a deck more competitive, which means winning FAST rather than winning CONSISTENTLY (and taking into consideration minimization of health lost). Iroas's Champion is an amazing control card that can ensure you win pretty much any match where you cast it (okay, unless the AI gets lucky and has a bounce spell next in queue). Still, in a red deck, which is the king of mana acceleration due to Volcanic Rambler, Abbot, Chandra's 1st ability, Battlefield Forge, Demolish, etc., she's pretty easy to cast. I also don't mind Embermaw because he usually adds enough extra damage over the course of the game to cover any turns where he's rushing into creatures.

Contrast these creatures with Scab-Clan Berzerker, who I really can't get behind. The lack of first strike means the damage adds up, and there's a good chance she'll eventually die, whereas the Champion usually stays at full health. Also, with Embermaw and Champion, since they don't have haste, you have one more turn to clear the way with burn spells.

I have never really felt good about playing Berzerker's Plate in any deck. For whatever reason, it tends to make my games take forever. I think if you're red, you really just want Infectious Bloodlust, and that's pretty much the only creature pump you need.

My biggest complaint with red right now is that Chandra gets so much weaker when jumping from level 42, where she is at optimal strength, and 50, where you get an extra ribbon at the cost of making her 2nd ability more expensive.

span_argoman

I agree on Scab-Clan Berserker. It's really not suited for PvP.

I like Berserker Plate in Jace though. It synergises well with Confusion to ensure that the opponent can't keep their creatures on the board.

What spells do you all use? Currently I'm using Exquisite Firecraft, Lightning Javelin, Fiery Impulse. It's mainly for clearing creatures, speeding up the opponent's demise is a nice bonus. Would swap in Ravaging Blaze when I do get it. Likely for Lightning Javelin.

Never tried Infectious Bloodlust but it doesn't seem that useful considering how fragile red creatures are (aside from Chandra, Abbot and Pia&Kiran).

Do you guys think Battlefield Forge or Mage Ring Network is a better mana boosting support for Chandra?

VacaNeon

paralistalon wrote:

I think the interesting discussion here is what makes a deck more competitive, which means winning FAST rather than winning CONSISTENTLY (and taking into consideration minimization of health lost). Iroas's Champion is an amazing control card that can ensure you win pretty much any match where you cast it (okay, unless the AI gets lucky and has a bounce spell next in queue). Still, in a red deck, which is the king of mana acceleration due to Volcanic Rambler, Abbot, Chandra's 1st ability, Battlefield Forge, Demolish, etc., she's pretty easy to cast. I also don't mind Embermaw because he usually adds enough extra damage over the course of the game to cover any turns where he's rushing into creatures.

Yeah, the current structure of QB forces decks to be constructed around "Speed". But I disagree red is currently the king of mana acceleration (and I do have Rambler, Abbot, dual land and demolish in my deck). I have seen player that is capable to farm 80+pts/hr (after 1.31patch), and I suspect it is a green deck that shares similar core concept to this one -> viewtopic.php?f=37&t=40215

VacaNeon

span_argoman wrote:

What spells do you all use? Currently I'm using Exquisite Firecraft, Lightning Javelin, Fiery Impulse. It's mainly for clearing creatures, speeding up the opponent's demise is a nice bonus. Would swap in Ravaging Blaze when I do get it. Likely for Lightning Javelin.

Never tried Infectious Bloodlust but it doesn't seem that useful considering how fragile red creatures are (aside from Chandra, Abbot and Pia&Kiran).

Do you guys think Battlefield Forge or Mage Ring Network is a better mana boosting support for Chandra?

I personally think Exquisite Firecraft + Ravaging Blaze are enough. You only want to use burning spells to remove nasty control/defensive creatures that will hinder your creatures to attack PW, and for pure offensive creatures just let them pass (But I would still kill creatures like Outland Colossus if it comes to the battlefield in early stage).

IMO, Bloodlust is better than Titan's Strength under the current QB structure. Haste provided by Bloodlust is nice, but the permanent +2/+1 is even better.

About the dual land, I have been consistently testing my red deck with and without it. Its really hard to tell its usefulness as red deck hates supports even its own. But, Mage Ring Network is definitely worse.

madwren

span_argoman wrote:

I agree on Scab-Clan Berserker. It's really not suited for PvP.

I like Berserker Plate in Jace though. It synergises well with Confusion to ensure that the opponent can't keep their creatures on the board.

What spells do you all use? Currently I'm using Exquisite Firecraft, Lightning Javelin, Fiery Impulse. It's mainly for clearing creatures, speeding up the opponent's demise is a nice bonus. Would swap in Ravaging Blaze when I do get it. Likely for Lightning Javelin.

Never tried Infectious Bloodlust but it doesn't seem that useful considering how fragile red creatures are (aside from Chandra, Abbot and Pia&Kiran).

Do you guys think Battlefield Forge or Mage Ring Network is a better mana boosting support for Chandra?

I'm winning regularly with:

Creatures -- Avaricious Dragon, Boggart Brute, Enthralling Victor, Volcanic Rambler, Prickleboar
Spells: Exquisite Firecraft, Ravaging Blaze, Demolish, Smash to Smithereens, Infectious Bloodlust

Dragon is really the only expensive creature I find worth using. P&K and Abbot *look* like they're fast, but I think they're both misleading. Dragon is not only nigh impossible to kill--and wins vs the omnipresent Skysnare Spider--but makes EVERY SPELL in your deck 3 cheaper. I can't stress how powerful that is when pumping out burn.

Infectious Bloodlust used to be Fiery Impulse, but I'm liking the perma-boost a bit better.

The creatures all have some quality that makes them special. Dragon, of course. Brute can't be blocked. Victor and Rambler are super efficient, and Prickleboar beats white's defender and green's reach.

All of those are valuable traits right now, versus the plethora of green/white decks in the field.

Demolish and Smash effectively make this a 9-card deck. Nothing better than seeing the AI sink mana into things you destroy quickly (or for free). I don't like those Claustrophobias and Bonds that manage to linger longer than necessary, especially if I have a Dragon in the first slot.

loroku

span_argoman wrote:

Never tried Infectious Bloodlust but it doesn't seem that useful considering how fragile red creatures are (aside from Chandra, Abbot and Pia&Kiran).

I'm not sure why it works, but after a few hundred games I really like it. The haste is wasted 90% of the time but the perma-boost for only 6 just makes it efficient somehow. (Plus I love it with Iroas.)

span_argoman wrote:

Do you guys think Battlefield Forge or Mage Ring Network is a better mana boosting support for Chandra?

I think those are both poor choices for red. Mage Ring Network seems like a bad idea for anyone, actually.

madwren wrote:

I'm winning regularly with:

Creatures -- Avaricious Dragon, Boggart Brute, Enthralling Victor, Volcanic Rambler, Prickleboar
Spells: Exquisite Firecraft, Ravaging Blaze, Demolish, Smash to Smithereens, Infectious Bloodlust

I wish I had Imagine Dragon. Otherwise, I find it interesting that you have no defenders. It's not surprising, since I'm guessing you just pump efficient creatures out quickly and go for the throat, and use the damage spells as your psudo-defender. You could also say that you're really playing with 8 cards, since I find Firecraft and Ravaging Blaze to be effectively the same; I can only think of maybe once or twice that I needed Firecraft instead of Blaze, and with red's 2nd power you still don't really need it. There are so few 8 HP creatures and they get such little play that Blaze + power works just fine. Playing both support destroyers is also interesting. I'd think that was overkill but maybe not. Have you just gotten burnt that bad by supports?

There's one extremely minor circumstance that this deck can get in trouble with, and that's where you get into a mana-denial battle with blue. I keep the 4 mana goblin in my deck for that and a few other niche cases; it's not as good, but sometimes you have to be able to get a creature out in one turn - and 8 mana is just too much in that case. Then again maybe the Dragon covers you in those cases.

But the most interesting thing to me is that all the red decks talked about in this thread are fairly similar. Efficient, midrange creatures with one or two powerful ones, a full rack of mostly the same spells and no supports. I'm guessing they play like I described above.

Unknown

I think that having smash and demolish both in the deck, is only a good idea for a few story battles.

Someone mentioned that having both is like playing with 9 cards so it speeds up your game. As it doesn't let you draw a card that's just not true.

I think in most cases it will just slow you down. A lot of times you will have multiple support killers in your hand without a support on board.

What if you have 3 support killers in your starterhand and he plays some quick creatures.

A lot of game changing supports have only one life. So they are often easy to get rid of even without a support killer.

soultwist

loroku wrote:

span_argoman wrote:

Never tried Infectious Bloodlust but it doesn't seem that useful considering how fragile red creatures are (aside from Chandra, Abbot and Pia&Kiran).

I'm not sure why it works, but after a few hundred games I really like it. The haste is wasted 90% of the time but the perma-boost for only 6 just makes it efficient somehow. (Plus I love it with Iroas.)

If you line it up behind cards like Volcanic Rambler or the Abbot sometimes you can get enough mana from a cascade.

Also 10% of the time the Abbot should draw and cast it for you, that is always a nice little bonus.