Iso price in the store: Crazy expensive!

Pylgrim

Here's the thing: Everybody knows Iso is absurdly overpriced. Including the devs. You are not telling them something that they don't know. So why haven't they changed it? Because as inconceivable as it may be, people are buying Iso at these prices. I assure you that if Iso was as rarely bought as we imagine, devs would have improved the value of it long time ago, as it's ridiculous to have an implemented monetization feature that's not producing revenue. However, as it's often the case, people have voted with their wallets differently than they have spoken with their mouths and so, devs have no incentive or need to make a change.

Vhailorx

Pylgrim wrote:

Here's the thing: Everybody knows Iso is absurdly overpriced. Including the devs. You are not telling them something that they don't know. So why haven't they changed it? Because as inconceivable as it may be, people are buying Iso at these prices. I assure you that if Iso was as rarely bought as we imagine, devs would have improved the value of it long time ago, as it's ridiculous to have an implemented monetization feature that's not producing revenue. However, as it's often the case, people have voted with their wallets differently than they have spoken with their mouths and so, devs have no incentive or need to make a change.

It is possible that the devs have made a mistake, but you're right that iso can't be a complete loss for demiurge or they would have changed something in the past 2 years.

But I also think there is a customer good will component here as well. I don't see how it can be good long term for the game to have a system where new players but overpriced goods early, then either get frustrated and leave, or integrate into the community and realize that iso is a terrible value (and then stop buying it all together and start complaining on the forums).

Maybe the current system really is the value sweet spot, but I feel like there should be a better place where lower prices lead to a broader purchase base, better feelings in the community, and similar revenues.

(also, Hi Pylgrim! Glad to see some more gripe-y posts from you of late. Welcome to cynicism!)

carrion_pigeons

Jarvind wrote:

I think the folks saying you should get millions for $100 are being a little shortsighted - at that rate you could max an entire roster for what some people throw down in a week or two. The power inflation even at mid-level play would be nuts, and cash flow to the devs would stagnate because you could just max out your roster and then hoard up what you get from normal play for when new characters roll out.

250k for $100 would be reasonable, I think. That's a little over triple what it is now, and you could take a 4* from brand new to usable (assuming covers, obviously), which is enough to make a noticeable difference to your game.

I think it's easy to overlook that most people won't spend $100 on this game, ever. I've played for years and have spent $80, and while I probably will dump another 20 in at some point, I don't anticipate it getting much farther than that for a long long time. Making an option to spend a ludicrous amount of money to get what amounts to a catch-up option wouldn't be depriving them of future earnings. It would just be accelerating them.

What it would do is incentivize whales to skip a whole bunch more, which would be lame gameplay but I guess if you're gonna be a whale you're already pretty up for lame gameplay.

puppychow

Polares wrote:

Right now even if I want to buy iso I would not do it in a thousand years (and I would buy iso if it was not a rip off). NOBODY should buy Iso, NEVER, EVER until they change the amounts you get. I am firm believer that everybody should be able to do whatever he wants with his money, but the price of iso is so far from what it should be that I firmly think that anybody should ever buy it, so devs can see how far is. And any person that is buying iso right now is hurting everbody, himself included. It is like if somebody wanted to change a 100$ for a 20$, completely nuts!

If you can convince super whales to stop buying those 100 bucks iso packs, maybe THEN d3 will offer better deals.

puppychow

Pylgrim wrote:

Here's the thing: Everybody knows Iso is absurdly overpriced. Including the devs. You are not telling them something that they don't know. So why haven't they changed it? Because as inconceivable as it may be, people are buying Iso at these prices. I assure you that if Iso was as rarely bought as we imagine, devs would have improved the value of it long time ago, as it's ridiculous to have an implemented monetization feature that's not producing revenue. However, as it's often the case, people have voted with their wallets differently than they have spoken with their mouths and so, devs have no incentive or need to make a change.

Excellent observation. Super whales are still forming buyers clubs. If hp is worthless now, then what are these guys buying? You guessed it! Iso!!!

amusingfoo1

Vhailorx wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Here's the thing: Everybody knows Iso is absurdly overpriced. Including the devs. You are not telling them something that they don't know. So why haven't they changed it? Because as inconceivable as it may be, people are buying Iso at these prices. I assure you that if Iso was as rarely bought as we imagine, devs would have improved the value of it long time ago, as it's ridiculous to have an implemented monetization feature that's not producing revenue. However, as it's often the case, people have voted with their wallets differently than they have spoken with their mouths and so, devs have no incentive or need to make a change.

It is possible that the devs have made a mistake, but you're right that iso can't be a complete loss for demiurge or they would have changed something in the past 2 years.

But I also think there is a customer good will component here as well. I don't see how it can be good long term for the game to have a system where new players but overpriced goods early, then either get frustrated and leave, or integrate into the community and realize that iso is a terrible value (and then stop buying it all together and start complaining on the forums).

Maybe the current system really is the value sweet spot, but I feel like there should be a better place where lower prices lead to a broader purchase base, better feelings in the community, and similar revenues.

(also, Hi Pylgrim! Glad to see some more gripe-y posts from you of late. Welcome to cynicism!)

Couple minor things. One is that ISO can't be a loss for them. Ever. It has zero cost to them.

Two, it's long-since been clear that they couldn't give the smallest of tinykitties about customer goodwill. If it doesn't immediately add to the bottom line, they don't do it.

DaveR4470

puppychow wrote:

Excellent observation. Super whales are still forming buyers clubs. If hp is worthless now, then what are these guys buying? You guessed it! Iso!!!

Super-whales are farming CP through purchases, not purchasing for the actual thing they're buying. But I'd guess they're still buying HP for shields and/or roster slots for dupes.

Warbringa

Kalex716 pointed it out earlier in the post of how bad of a job the developers/publishers are doing of utilizing the revenue potential from the game.

The sad thing is that they could hire any one of us to solve the problem of fixing this game's economics to make it far more profitable for them as a company AND make the player base much more content at the same time. The only thing worse is they "business side" of the company could read several of our ideas without hiring any of us and fix it. They really need someone with a very basic knowledge of economics to overhaul how they have the "currencies" set up in the game (iso, HP, tokens, covers and oh yeah time).

Vhailorx

Warbringa wrote:

Kalex716 pointed it out earlier in the post of how bad of a job the developers/publishers are doing of utilizing the revenue potential from the game.

The sad thing is that they could hire any one of us to solve the problem of fixing this game's economics to make it far more profitable for them as a company AND make the player base much more content at the same time. The only thing worse is they "business side" of the company could read several of our ideas without hiring any of us and fix it. They really need someone with a very basic knowledge of economics to overhaul how they have the "currencies" set up in the game (iso, HP, tokens, covers and oh yeah time).

That may be a bit strong.

I whole heartedly agree that the monetization model of this game is a mess, with the various gameplay gate mechanisms really opposing each other, and every digital good significantly overpriced.

But to suggest that one of bus could roll into demiurge's office and fix everything in an afternoon with no collateral damage or lost revenue? That's doesn't seem plausible.

I LOVE the idea of a once-a-month gift-bag that included say 1k HP, 300k iso, 15 CP and a LT for $5-10. Make it available to everyone who has gotten their day 365 dino covers (ie people who stick around past the early phases of the game)

All of a sudden every serious player is sorely tempted to drop a few bucks every month. And those goods would ammount to 1 roster slot, leveling a 4* most of the way to max, most of a classic LT purchase, and 1 random 4* cover. That's still way less than the "standard" rate of character introduction (2x 4* a month plus 1 new 5*).

I don't think that would blow the top off player progression (especially without direct cover buys at the 4* and 5* levels). I haven't spent money on this game in about a year, and have been ddq only for 4+ months and even I would be tempted to buy that pack. . .

TxMoose

Vhailorx wrote:

Warbringa wrote:

Kalex716 pointed it out earlier in the post of how bad of a job the developers/publishers are doing of utilizing the revenue potential from the game.

The sad thing is that they could hire any one of us to solve the problem of fixing this game's economics to make it far more profitable for them as a company AND make the player base much more content at the same time. The only thing worse is they "business side" of the company could read several of our ideas without hiring any of us and fix it. They really need someone with a very basic knowledge of economics to overhaul how they have the "currencies" set up in the game (iso, HP, tokens, covers and oh yeah time).

That may be a bit strong.

I whole heartedly agree that the monetization model of this game is a mess, with the various gameplay gate mechanisms really opposing each other, and every digital good significantly overpriced.

But to suggest that one of bus could roll into demiurge's office and fix everything in an afternoon with no collateral damage or lost revenue? That's doesn't seem plausible.

I LOVE the idea of a once-a-month gift-bag that included say 1k HP, 300k iso, 15 CP and a LT for $5-10. Make it available to everyone who has gotten their day 365 dino covers (ie people who stick around past the early phases of the game)

All of a sudden every serious player is sorely tempted to drop a few bucks every month. And those goods would ammount to 1 roster slot, leveling a 4* most of the way to max, most of a classic LT purchase, and 1 random 4* cover. That's still way less than the "standard" rate of character introduction (2x 4* a month plus 1 new 5*).

I don't think that would blow the top off player progression (especially without direct cover buys at the 4* and 5* levels). I haven't spent money on this game in about a year, and have been ddq only for 4+ months and even I would be tempted to buy that pack. . .

I'm not one to make small purchases. I usually make big ones scattered months apart, but I'd be all-in for a program like that. that kind of supplemental iso on top of my normal grinding would mean huge progress in a few months.

ErikPeter

The price of ISO is set to prevent MPQ from being completely pay-to-win and bleeding off a huge portion of its playerbase.

As it stands we can spend $100 on like, 30 levels for a 4-star character. Nobody does, because that's a terrible deal.

The minute Demiurge gives us 400K Iso for $100, that would be a lot more tempting. But then tons of people would do it and the levels of people we fight in PvP would skyrocket and it would feel like I have to spend that money in order to get ahead.

edit to add: Basically, if one crazy rich guy spends $10,000 to level his characters, that doesn't affect me much (I'm not going to fight his maxed team anyway). But if everyone could by spending a few extra bucks, including me because I'd be tempted, what happens once we have all the characters? ISO is a big draw that keeps the game rewarding; if I could easily top up all 75 of my characters on ISO, the game would be an endless grind just to get the few 4- and 5-star covers I need. (Instead of an endless grind for iso that occasionally drops exciting 4- and 5-star covers!)

tl;DR: I totally agree that it's insanely expensive, but if it was cheaper, pay-to-win would have a much larger effect on the game and almost certainly ruin it.

puppychow

Let me play the devil's advocate. What if the price of iso WAS set artificially high to prevent power creep? For a guy like me, for example, if I can max out every character on my roster then what more is there for me to do? Aside from chasing the monthly/biweekly new 4* now? I think the switch from hp to cp for direct buying of powers was partially made to prevent power creep as well.

By preventing the majority of the player base from easily maxing out their rosters, the game publishers are preserving the longevity of the game.

Polares

puppychow wrote:

Let me play the devil's advocate. What if the price of iso WAS set artificially high to prevent power creep? For a guy like me, for example, if I can max out every character on my roster then what more is there for me to do? Aside from chasing the monthly/biweekly new 4* now? I think the switch from hp to cp for direct buying of powers was partially made to prevent power creep as well.

By preventing the majority of the player base from easily maxing out their rosters, the game publishers are preserving the longevity of the game.

Buuuuut it is also making impossible to max everything, so why care about new releases if I am never ever going to be able to max them ? And champions, why care about champions if I still need to sell 90% of the 4 covers I get :S :S :S

I have a very long list of chars to max iceman, rhulk, cyclops, xpool, carnage, thing, .... Then the 5s, my OML and SS are very playable (from the number of covers) so I need to start leveling them. Even I would max some other 3s I still don't have maxed like Blade, Hulk or mostorm.


I think not being able to buy covers is a good thing (but probably too late) but there should be enough iso to play with the chars you get covers for.


And what is happening with the iso sale? why is still not present in iOs ?!?!?!? is it just for Android? any red has commented on this?!?!?!?

The Bob The

puppychow wrote:

Let me play the devil's advocate. What if the price of iso WAS set artificially high to prevent power creep? For a guy like me, for example, if I can max out every character on my roster then what more is there for me to do? Aside from chasing the monthly/biweekly new 4* now? I think the switch from hp to cp for direct buying of powers was partially made to prevent power creep as well.

By preventing the majority of the player base from easily maxing out their rosters, the game publishers are preserving the longevity of the game.

I suspect you're right. This also ties in to an earlier argument in the thread about 20 ISO. First: I'm on board with everyone else, getting 20 ISO sucks, especially when there are actual prizes still to be had, but that's a different threat. Consider if you got 100 ISO minimum though. Now how long does it take you to beat the easiest Prologue mission, say with a team of one-covered 5*s. 30 seconds? Maybe? Now do that ten times - let's say five minutes - and you've got 1000 ISO. Sit down for an hour and you've got 12,000 ISO. If you peppered it throughout your day, you could be clearing 60-100K daily, and if you went full-on skip-work, shut-off-your-ringer crazy, you could earn enough to practically max a 4* a day.

The above is a bit off topic, but I think it supports your point. I won't say there's no moneymaking intent happening here - devs gotta eat too - but easy ISO breaks the game. That said, it'd be nice to have a LITTLE more...

Polares

The Bob The wrote:

puppychow wrote:

Let me play the devil's advocate. What if the price of iso WAS set artificially high to prevent power creep? For a guy like me, for example, if I can max out every character on my roster then what more is there for me to do? Aside from chasing the monthly/biweekly new 4* now? I think the switch from hp to cp for direct buying of powers was partially made to prevent power creep as well.

By preventing the majority of the player base from easily maxing out their rosters, the game publishers are preserving the longevity of the game.

I suspect you're right. This also ties in to an earlier argument in the thread about 20 ISO. First: I'm on board with everyone else, getting 20 ISO sucks, especially when there are actual prizes still to be had, but that's a different threat. Consider if you got 100 ISO minimum though. Now how long does it take you to beat the easiest Prologue mission, say with a team of one-covered 5*s. 30 seconds? Maybe? Now do that ten times - let's say five minutes - and you've got 1000 ISO. Sit down for an hour and you've got 12,000 ISO. If you peppered it throughout your day, you could be clearing 60-100K daily, and if you went full-on skip-work, shut-off-your-ringer crazy, you could earn enough to practically max a 4* a day.

The above is a bit off topic, but I think it supports your point. I won't say there's no moneymaking intent happening here - devs gotta eat too - but easy ISO breaks the game. That said, it'd be nice to have a LITTLE more...

So basically you are saying that after 16-20 hours of playing a game, doing a trivial node, which is of course super boring, then you can max a 4 in a day? And you see a problem there? (a part that you think is fine playing a game without stopping doing a trivial node for that long ) How is that different for any other game? You play Diablo for 20 hours in a row and you will certainly end the game (and level A LOT), and is so much funnier than doing a prologue node....

But anyway, it is easy to fix, no rewards in prologue after you get the 4 each node has. But in any other activity you get 100 iso.

The Bob The

Polares wrote:

The Bob The wrote:

puppychow wrote:

Let me play the devil's advocate. What if the price of iso WAS set artificially high to prevent power creep? For a guy like me, for example, if I can max out every character on my roster then what more is there for me to do? Aside from chasing the monthly/biweekly new 4* now? I think the switch from hp to cp for direct buying of powers was partially made to prevent power creep as well.

By preventing the majority of the player base from easily maxing out their rosters, the game publishers are preserving the longevity of the game.

I suspect you're right. This also ties in to an earlier argument in the thread about 20 ISO. First: I'm on board with everyone else, getting 20 ISO sucks, especially when there are actual prizes still to be had, but that's a different threat. Consider if you got 100 ISO minimum though. Now how long does it take you to beat the easiest Prologue mission, say with a team of one-covered 5*s. 30 seconds? Maybe? Now do that ten times - let's say five minutes - and you've got 1000 ISO. Sit down for an hour and you've got 12,000 ISO. If you peppered it throughout your day, you could be clearing 60-100K daily, and if you went full-on skip-work, shut-off-your-ringer crazy, you could earn enough to practically max a 4* a day.

The above is a bit off topic, but I think it supports your point. I won't say there's no moneymaking intent happening here - devs gotta eat too - but easy ISO breaks the game. That said, it'd be nice to have a LITTLE more...

So basically you are saying that after 16-20 hours of playing a game, doing a trivial node, which is of course super boring, then you can max a 4 in a day? And you see a problem there? (a part that you think is fine playing a game without stopping doing a trivial node for that long ) How is that different for any other game? You play Diablo for 20 hours in a row and you will certainly end the game (and level A LOT), and is so much funnier than doing a prologue node....

But anyway, it is easy to fix, no rewards in prologue after you get the 4 each node has. But in any other activity you get 100 iso.

Well, the Diablo comparison doesn't really hold because this isn't a game that has any sort of end. Understand that I'm playing Devil's Advocate only, but from the devs' perspective, this is a game designed to be played in perpetuity, not in a few weeks. If I'm maxing a 4* a day ... what happens then? I win a lot, which hooray, but ... eh.

Anyway, looks like they've presented their own solution: Strong anecdotal evidence suggests 20 ISO has gone the way of the buffalo. Looks like the end of my particular off-topic discussion.

Sandwichboy

I think they should just remove hero points entirely and lower the price of ISO to compensate. Three currencies is just silly. There's really no good reason for HP to exist at this point other than as a redundant roadblock to progression now that they've significantly slowed the acquisition of covers. Just make ISO a lot cheaper and have it pay for everything other than roster slots, covers and LTs. Would probably be the most well received quality of life improvement for the game.

DaveR4470

puppychow wrote:

Let me play the devil's advocate. What if the price of iso WAS set artificially high to prevent power creep? For a guy like me, for example, if I can max out every character on my roster then what more is there for me to do? Aside from chasing the monthly/biweekly new 4* now? I think the switch from hp to cp for direct buying of powers was partially made to prevent power creep as well.

By preventing the majority of the player base from easily maxing out their rosters, the game publishers are preserving the longevity of the game.

That's a fair point. To play devil's advocate to the devil's advocate..... the cost/values of purchased ISO were set at release, a point where there were something like 30 characters total, and (if we assume you are correct in your analysis) reflects the cost of maxing that roster. Today, there are three times as many characters, and even with the ISO cost change for leveling, maxing a full roster costs way more than it did at launch. An individual unit of ISO has less marginal utility to the player today than it did at launch. But the cost has stayed fixed.

It's possible that the developers don't care about that, because the ISO cost was meant to actually discourage purchases... then it's not really a retail offering of an in-game benefit. It's effectively a tax on people who don't want to level "naturally" through in-game rewards.