Is championing the 4* buff we were told? Dev response plz!!

Phaserhawk

[color=#BF0000]IceIX[/color] wrote:

Silver Surfer stats posted here.

Also, a couple notes before you go haring off. Or after you've been haring off and your eyes are still saucer shaped and sized:

Damage and health scales higher as you pass normal buffed 4* bounds. You may have noticed this already with 395s if you face them regularly. It's not linear.

Players will not be facing off against 450 Silver Surfers very soon. By the time that's any kind of regularity, 4*s will be buffed to be closer to a 5*s max power. We don't want to do 4* buffs quite so soon though since 5*s aren't really a "thing" yet. All that overbuffing them would do now would be to further blast 3*s and underdeveloped 4* rosters into dust. That's fun for the tippy top that are there, but for the *vast* majority of the player base, that's bad.

Match damage is as written, those aren't typos. 5*s start around 4* power at 255 and go up from there. Protect tiles are a thing you may want to think about.

You probably notice that covers aren't as effective as on other rarities. This is by design. 5*s are far more reliant on leveling than they are on covers. Covers will still give extra power, but they won't be doubling or tripling damage/healing from 4->5 covers.

So I am wondering is championing the 4* buff we were told about? Because that's really not going to do anything in the short term as more and more 5* get covered and outpace 4*'s in damage which will take a player probably 3 years to get a 4* to level 370.

CaptainFreaky

I too would be interested in this feedback from the devs.

Because while a very highly leveled/championed 4* may be close to a lower level 5* in damage potential, the real world impact is very slight since it will take way longer to build a level 330+ 4* then it will to build a decently covered 5* (assuming RNGesus cooperates reasonably).

So, unless there is another change coming, then I'd say Championing on 4* is a fail to allow that tier to adequately compete with a real 5* team.

I've been trying to work on my 4* transition - which has been taking forever already. But if there isn't any buff coming to 4* or some other mechanism that allows them to compete with (or separately from) 5* then I might as well sell them all and just go for the 5* luck strategy, which kind of sucks and defeats the purpose of Demiurge wanting people to "earn their way" in the game.

SnowcaTT

Also would like to hear.

I doubt anyone is getting 13 PLUS ONE-HUNDRED 4* covers of a specific character to get them to 370 before they get thirteen 5* covers of one character....and it seems that one thirteen-cover 5* would destroy any 370 4*'s.

I suspect we won't hear anything because 5*'s were a huge mistake they can't admit - and they can't nerf because of the "mega-whale" spending that has arisen due to this mistake. I don't mind my 4* roster being annihilated by mega-whales : that is what they'll do. I -do- mind when my 4* roster is annihilated by someone who is still 3* transitioning and simply had better RNG luck than I....

Magic

Even if they speed up the 4* transition the championing of 5* means they will run away all the same. So this is not a solution.

Another problem - 2* players gaining multiple 5* covers (i will skip whales and buyers clubs - what people do with money is their problem). Having 3-5 covers in OML can allow you to skip the 3* (and to a degree 4*) transition altogether. I think this is one thing that I dislike about the Legendary tokens and the whole 5* story. I've been playing for almost 2 years and there are already rookies (200 days is a rookie) who have better chance at getting top awards than me. It's wrong.

Anyway - I am currently limiting my addiction so I hope in couple of months this game will be just a small hobby, not a part-time job (yes - I am looking at you PvE).

tanis3303

SnowcaTT wrote:

I doubt anyone is getting 13 PLUS ONE-HUNDRED 4* covers of a specific character to get them to 370 before they get thirteen 5* covers of one character....and it seems that one thirteen-cover 5* would destroy any 370 4*'s.

There's this, then there's also the fact that by the time many players have achieved a lvl 370 of anyone, the 5* players will have already championed their 5s, so you wont be facing a lvl 450 with your 370 champion 4*, you'll be facing a lvl 550. If this WAS supposed to be the buff to 4*s we were told about, why on earth did they ALSO buff the 5* tier, which clearly did not need a buff...

CaptainFreaky

tanis3303 wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

I doubt anyone is getting 13 PLUS ONE-HUNDRED 4* covers of a specific character to get them to 370 before they get thirteen 5* covers of one character....and it seems that one thirteen-cover 5* would destroy any 370 4*'s.

There's this, then there's also the fact that by the time many players have achieved a lvl 370 of anyone, the 5* players will have already championed their 5s, so you wont be facing a lvl 450 with your 370 champion 4*, you'll be facing a lvl 550. If this WAS supposed to be the buff to 4*s we were told about, why on earth did they ALSO buff the 5* tier, which clearly did not need a buff...

Agree - I think Championing should have only been a thing for 2/3/4* , but if we must have Championing for 5*, then the improvement in terms of damage output/health should be minimal - perhaps this is balance pass (making the increase for champion 5* levels minimal) that I can get behind.

But that doesn't even address that fact that 4* teams don't stand a chance against 10-13 cover 5* teams. In every other case, a well played & buffed tier can fight the tier above it (I can take on lvl 270 4* with the right preR91 buffed 3* team for instance). But I'm not sure any 4* can reliably stand up to a fully covered/maxed 5* team, and the "buff" from championing 4* won't make a difference as it currently is defined.

grunth13

CaptainFreaky wrote:

tanis3303 wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

I doubt anyone is getting 13 PLUS ONE-HUNDRED 4* covers of a specific character to get them to 370 before they get thirteen 5* covers of one character....and it seems that one thirteen-cover 5* would destroy any 370 4*'s.

There's this, then there's also the fact that by the time many players have achieved a lvl 370 of anyone, the 5* players will have already championed their 5s, so you wont be facing a lvl 450 with your 370 champion 4*, you'll be facing a lvl 550. If this WAS supposed to be the buff to 4*s we were told about, why on earth did they ALSO buff the 5* tier, which clearly did not need a buff...

Agree - I think Championing should have only been a thing for 2/3/4* , but if we must have Championing for 5*, then the improvement in terms of damage output/health should be minimal - perhaps this is balance pass (making the increase for champion 5* levels minimal) that I can get behind.

But that doesn't even address that fact that 4* teams don't stand a chance against 10-13 cover 5* teams. In every other case, a well played & buffed tier can fight the tier above it (I can take on lvl 270 4* with the right preR91 buffed 3* team for instance). But I'm not sure any 4* can reliably stand up to a fully covered/maxed 5* team, and the "buff" from championing 4* won't make a difference as it currently is defined.

Well, we already saw that a max SS destroyed a max team of 4* x 3 during one of the preview battles. We also noticed you actually had to work hard not to win because all 5* have a regeneration power vs only 2 in the 4 star (can't remember if 5 star also has a regeneration power as I do not have him and likely don't want him).

Linkster79

SnowcaTT wrote:

Also would like to hear.

I doubt anyone is getting 13 PLUS ONE-HUNDRED 4* covers of a specific character to get them to 370 before they get thirteen 5* covers of one character....and it seems that one thirteen-cover 5* would destroy any 370 4*'s.

I suspect we won't hear anything because 5*'s were a huge mistake they can't admit - and they can't nerf because of the "mega-whale" spending that has arisen due to this mistake. I don't mind my 4* roster being annihilated by mega-whales : that is what they'll do. I -do- mind when my 4* roster is annihilated by someone who is still 3* transitioning and simply had better RNG luck than I....

The game wasn't ready for 5* but it could have managed to incorporate them if the developers didn't make the mistake of adding command points to purchasing hero points, also by not learning by that mistake and rewarding alliance members too thus leading to buyers clubs. If command points had remained unpurchaseable or even restricted to just a single person then the 5* tier would have been contained to either the top tier of leaderboards or the megawhales. Also having 5* draws rely on just randomness was another error, but one that could have very easily and still can be rectified by making the odds of pulling a 5* from legendary tokens much higher. Each type of LT should have a 10% chance of each 5* character making a 30% chance total, yes some will still get burned by randomness but losing streaks would be far fewer and make the bitter pill easier to swallow.

As for a admin response well we know that will be very unlikely. Demiurge_Anthony is the most active admin at the moment and he is (very rightly) giving feedback to the current stun bug. David Hi-Fi Moore did a copy paste about iOS prices yesterday and that was it and I don't even know where Cthulu has been since their appointment as a community manager.

Orion

I've looked at the roster of some of the megawhales and indeed they already have level 370 4* champions. Looking at their power, they are pretty darn close to the power of a max 5*. For instance, Cyclops has 30k health and his powered-up red does 24k damage. Red Hulk's powered up green does 15k AoE damage and he has 38k health. But they don't have the crazy match damage of even a basic 1-cover 5*.

And as other people have said, it would take 5 years for the average player to accumulate 100 extra covers of a particular 4*. So to say that's the "buff" would be absurd. I'll have a level 450 5* long before I even get close to maxing out 4* champion.

KingDreadnaught

Well, as a megawhale as many ppl named me lol I'd like to give a little info into this.
After I maxed 5-6 4* to Lv. 370, I realized that some of the 4* at maxed 370 lv are really really powerful.
In my opinion, I consider this championing thing is to give a chance for people who achieve 4* covers more than 5* to be able to handle average 5* team.
Eg. I used to hate X23 because I thought she was useless but now, she's my no.1 4* to pair with my 5* team.
Some of the 4* have a great improvement while some just not that 'interesting'.

While people complaining a lot about how hard to get their 5* covers, I believe d3 is trying balance the gameplay by giving some great improvement into some of the 4* at higher level after championed. The only thing I see is the match damage that the 4* will not be able to fight with the 5s*.

While fighting with other full maxed 5s* team, I tend to use some of the 4* to finish the game way Faster than full pack of my high level 5s*.
I'm not sure if all will get my point here.

I also don't want many great players out there to think that "ohh KingDread, u have everything so it doesn't matter to you". In fact, I realize that some of the 4*s are way
better than some 5s* at this moment. They give variety of gameplay and styles also ones can form a proper team that suitable for them in any kind of situations (pve, pvp, who u up against with, etc.)

Ps** If any who is not he way to championing their 3*, 4* or 5*, feel free to visit my roster and check the power stats for better guideline. Please take this a nice guideline and there is no intention to show off my roster as many probably come around to check what I acquired.. lol
Goodluck to everyone on championing their teams and def. goodluck on tokens Pull!

LegendReborn

That's nice and everything but the sheer amount of iso needed to max a 4* and then the many covers it takes to get a decent change pales compared to acquiring 5*s, which says a heck of a lot.

KingDreadnaught

LegendReborn wrote:

That's nice and everything but the sheer amount of iso needed to max a 4* and then the many covers it takes to get a decent change pales compared to acquiring 5*s, which says a heck of a lot.

That's one of the reason why all the "rewards" for championing 3-5* give hell loads of ISO.

Orion

KingDreadnaught wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

That's nice and everything but the sheer amount of iso needed to max a 4* and then the many covers it takes to get a decent change pales compared to acquiring 5*s, which says a heck of a lot.

That's one of the reason why all the "rewards" for championing 3-5* give hell loads of ISO.

Sorry, but they don't. It's been shown that the ISO you get back is the same as what you'd get if you just sold the 100 covers + the champion fee.

SirLanik

Titling your thread "Dev response plz!!" is not an effective way to engage a discussion.

LegendReborn

Orion wrote:

KingDreadnaught wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

That's nice and everything but the sheer amount of iso needed to max a 4* and then the many covers it takes to get a decent change pales compared to acquiring 5*s, which says a heck of a lot.

That's one of the reason why all the "rewards" for championing 3-5* give hell loads of ISO.

Sorry, but they don't. It's been shown that the ISO you get back is the same as what you'd get if you just sold the 100 covers + the champion fee.

Yeah. It's totally worth the champ fee but if you have someone parked at 120, it'd be such a waste of iso leveling to 166 just for the champ rewards in a character who will sit there only being used when featured.

Xenoberyll

KingDreadnaught wrote:

While people complaining a lot about how hard to get their 5* covers, I believe d3 is trying balance the gameplay by giving some great improvement into some of the 4* at higher level after championed. The only thing I see is the match damage that the 4* will not be able to fight with the 5s*.

Sounds good in theory. The Problem is that i will take forever to get my 4stars to those high champ levels unless i'm whaling a lot - in which case i'll probably have my 5stars becoming champions before i'll have a lvl 370 4star.

So while i like the champion update i think that 5star characters should scale a lot less than they do with champion covers and i doubt it helped to shrink the gap between 4star and 5star players at all.

JamieMadrox

You have to look at ALL of the rewards from championing to really see the value:

112,500 ISO
4000 HP
250 CP - 10-12 Legendary Tokens worth (10,000 - 12,000 ISO)
10 Legendaty Tokens (10,000 ISO)

PLUS the better stats from each level.

That's much more value than the 100,000 ISO you'd get selling the covers individually.

So yes, I think this is the boost the devs were talking about and yes I'm more than OK with it.

KingDreadnaught

Jamie Madrox wrote:

You have to look at ALL of the rewards from championing to really see the value:

112,500 ISO
4000 HP
250 CP - 10-12 Legendary Tokens worth (10,000 - 12,000 ISO)
10 Legendaty Tokens (10,000 ISO)

PLUS the better stats from each level.

That's much more value than the 100,000 ISO you'd get selling the covers individually.

So yes, I think this is the boost the devs were talking about and yes I'm more than OK with it.

That's what I tried to explain.. and you came with the details! Thank you, Jamie

Xenoberyll

Yeah, that list is very nice. Looks like the big spenders will profit quick now, but how long will it take to get 100 4star covers of the same character without whaling them?

Polares

So I looked into Kings's account and there really is some 4s that end up being as good or even more than some of the 5s of the same level.

The big winners:
- Cyclops - OMG, 10k base, 22k with all the AP :O (blue is just 6k)
- RHulk - 15k AoE !!!! 37k hitpoints!!!
- Iceman - 6.2k base+500 (so 11k easily) and blue does 16k!!!
- X23 - 10k for 8 green, 23k for the trap!!!
- Fury - demolitions does 21k !!! (3k each trap)

The big loosers:
- IMHB - red does only 1197 so with 10AP he does almost less damage than cyclops
- JG - 7k purple, 6.2 green (the same than base for iceman)
- Xforce - green does 2.5k (!!!!!!), black just 1.1k (similar to IMHB)

Then attack tiles and strike tiles in general doesn't look as good in general (x23 strike does 900 damage, and IMHB 600 each).

So basically double the damage they do now, scaling linearly, so when the number is bigger the multiplication makes it even bigger, this is why Furys traps scale so much compared to IMHB Punch or XForce Surgical or iceman and hulk AoE are so impressive compared to JG.


The big problem is that we need 100 covers (!!!!) to get there. I think 4s should reach their max with 50 covers (which is a lot already).

VA5

"I doubt anyone is getting 13 PLUS ONE-HUNDRED 4* covers of a specific character to get them to 370 before they get thirteen 5* covers of one character....and it seems that one thirteen-cover 5* would destroy any 370 4*'s. "

I've seen several players with fully championed 4's, unfortunately they are the whales buying tons of 40 packs and have championed #5's already.

Have decided next time I get hit in PVP by 5 roster to lay down a DP Whales, Whales, Whales in retaliation.

On another note the championing does take some sting out of pulling maxed out 4 covers. It may not be much but it is much better than the 1000 ISO token we used to receive