Please, give us a more consistent progression system

Unknown

Malcrof wrote:

Grantosium wrote:

Also MFF biometrics don't have an expiry date, or a limit to how many characters you can have.

Unclaimed ones usualy expire in 7 days.

Been playing MFF for a year, have every character rostered, even cho who was released yesterday.. and have 0 6*s... and only ever use 3 chars for everything, so most everyone else is lvl 1-15 and just garbage taking up space.. no roster diversity at all, same 3 chars every day, any time i play.. If i played hardcore , maybe someone else would eventually be useful, but they have nothing to make you care about anything other than your core 3 chars...

so what exactly is the point of adding new people? At least here, there are reasons to level and use different chars.

I almost responded to this post three different times and subsequently deleted each before posting. Your comments reflect an experience so far removed from mine it is actually a bit confusing.

Zero 6*s after a year would be quite an accomplishment in MFF, considering how relatively painless getting 6*s is, especially compared to acquiring even 4*s in MPQ for all but the most dedicated players.

As for the comment on roster diversity? I honestly have no idea how you could get to that, short of just not playing any of the almost countless different sections of the game, including the newly added story, holiday missions, multiple PvP options, and all the other persistent special content, not even taking into consideration the extra rewards players get for using specific heroes.

Add to that the fact that roster slots are free, so it wouldn't matter how many heroes you had or didn't, even if there were less than 30+ worthy heroes, and 20+ superior choices, depending on which of the many available modes you were playing.

As for the comments in the thread about progression, after over 2 YEARS of MPQ, I currently have ZERO well-covered 4* heroes and almost THREE pages of single or two cover 4*s. For comparison, playing MFF at a level not remotely near what is necessary to feel anything approaching progression in MPQ, on my own schedule, for +-3-4 months, I've got:

By * level:

fourteen 6*s
eight 5*s (with some on the cusp of 6*)
seventeen 4*s (with many on the cusp of 5*)
twelve 3*s (with many on the cusp of 4*)
+-10 1s and 2s I haven't started working on

By numeric level:

10 at level 1 (haven't started working on them)
11 at level 30+
24 at level 40+
8 at level 50+
8 at level 55+
4 at level 60 (max)

Many of these numbers will be changing soon, because I'm getting free bio selectors every day which I use to level heroes, guaranteed bios from non-scaled missions, and Nm is running yet another promotion giving away a high ranking character I already have, which will allow me to further increase my already existing heroes' * count using the free gift materials.

Apologies for the length of my response, but zero 6*s in a full year of playing MFF is quite an accomplishment.

I still love me some MPQ and have hopes that it can be brought into line with most other FTP titles, because I enjoy the "Candy Crush with men in tights" thing, but some of what I'm reading about MMF is just confusingly off-base.

DBC

DC1972

I like the progression meter idea. I was thinking of something similar. If the draw rate for a 5* is 10% in aggregate, then just allow for a random 5* every tenth pull of an LT the other 9 can be random 4*. Even make it every 15th pull if needed. That way everyone progresses at the same rate as long as they are playing (or paying) enough to get LTs and I can stop complaining about my draw rate vs. everyone else seemingly better draw rate.

Unknown

Raff, I realized I never actually got to the suggestion part of your OP:

One important disagreement first:

In my belief, the lack of progression (MPQ) vs. feeling of progression (MFF) issue lies squarely on the back of scaling.

You feel each inch of progression in MFF clearly because that Stage 10, Mission 1 team that wiped you out last week still wiped you out today, but you know that when Spidey gets that 9th gear and you add that 5th ability to Green Goblin, that level is YOURS. Of course, there's no competition other than you attempting to get more bios, gold, and gear, and you needn't worry about healing or roster slots, so the pain is subsequently far more manageable. lol

In MPQ, not only is the difference between zero, one, or six covers negligible, it won't matter anyway because those Level 212 enemies that wiped out your Level 135 heroes are now going to be Level 295 enemies who will also likely wipe out your Level 155 heroes.

The lack of usability for heroes under 10 or so covers is sadly significantly exacerbated by scaling, making the problem unnecessarily worse. Any doubts about that fact I had were summarily wiped out by my decision to attempt progress in MPQ by (*Gasp*) rostering my two 5*s.

As for suggestions? Phew. The more I experience my return to gaming outside MPQ, the harder it is to contemplate how to fix things.

Remove scaling altogether, bar 5*s from PvE, and have a PvP bracket system (2s, 3s, 4s, 5s)?

DBC

firethorne

Drummerboycroy wrote:

In my belief, the lack of progression (MPQ) vs. feeling of progression (MFF) issue lies squarely on the back of scaling.

DBC

That is an excellent point, and absolutely part of the problem, especially in PvE. I'm playing many events that I played when I started, and they are probably harder now when they were back then. Lvl 40 Juggs vs lvl 50 Ironman isn't a big deal. But when they spin Juggs up to 200, boy howdy, he's no joke.

Leveling up and getting better characters should make things easier, and allow you to finish things you couldn't before. For MPQ, it is the exact opposite, and people actually fear getting 5*s too early because they know it will bite them in the ***.

Raffoon

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Raff, I realized I never actually got to the suggestion part of your OP:

One important disagreement first:

In my belief, the lack of progression (MPQ) vs. feeling of progression (MFF) issue lies squarely on the back of scaling.

DBC

I do agree with you that scaling definitely diminishes the sense of progression.

As far as the actual value of progression goes though, the bigger chunks of progress in MPQ lead to spikier progression. The difference you see when you get the 5th cover in an ability for 1-4* or when you get a single cover for a 5* is a notable increase in power. The problem with that "spiky" nature though is that it leaves many people with little to no progression because of a few bad rolls.

When you flip a coin 10 times, you should get 5 heads on average. But, it's still fairly likely that flipping 10 times you'll only get 2 heads in a lot of cases. If you flip a coin 100,000 times and you only get 20,000 heads, there's probably something wrong with your coin.

Because the MPQ system has so few rolls (at least for the biggest ticket items like 4* and very especially 5*s) it leaves many more players completely out of luck, because they don't have the chance to experience the "regression to the mean" phenomenon that occurs with more rolls.

Separately, the larger chunks give the developers less flexibility in how they can give out rewards. In MFF they give out free bios every day, and frequently give out other sizable gifts. In MPQ if they gave out a free legendary token every day, they'd break the game. They could give out a few CP every day (the daily reward after a certain point is 25 per month, so almost almost 1 per day already), but that still leaves the issue that those CP are mainly redeemable for a random chance, instead of a specific progression.

Maybe if they handed out more CP and reduced the rate to directly buy covers with CP, it might help to solve the issue.

Raffoon

After a few busy days away, I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed that the thread I made with constructive analysis and proposed solutions petered out after a page and a half.

Meanwhile the other thread I made a week or two ago, wishing various comical and annoying misfortune on the devs for creating such a broken system went on for something like 4-5 pages.

Meh, I guess I shouldn't write such long posts.

wirius

Raffoon, its because you gave a post with thought that it didn't get a lot of replies. Quality posts deserve quality answers, and that takes time and effort. Emotional posts may bring out tons of responses, but the value of those responses is often not worth it. Its like forum candy. Thanks for bringing a meat and potatoes post instead.

Raffoon

wirius wrote:

Raffoon, its because you gave a post with thought that it didn't get a lot of replies. Quality posts deserve quality answers, and that takes time and effort. Emotional posts may bring out tons of responses, but the value of those responses is often not worth it. Its like forum candy. Thanks for bringing a meat and potatoes post instead.

Thanks, that's very kind to say

Crowl

firethorne wrote:

That is an excellent point, and absolutely part of the problem, especially in PvE. I'm playing many events that I played when I started, and they are probably harder now when they were back then. Lvl 40 Juggs vs lvl 50 Ironman isn't a big deal. But when they spin Juggs up to 200, boy howdy, he's no joke.

Leveling up and getting better characters should make things easier, and allow you to finish things you couldn't before. For MPQ, it is the exact opposite, and people actually fear getting 5*s too early because they know it will bite them in the ***.

The thing is, they could fix that issue quite easily, simply ease off on the scaling a bit, increase the amount of characters considered for calculating the scaling from 3 and only take their base levels not the boosted one.

firethorne

Crowl wrote:

firethorne wrote:

That is an excellent point, and absolutely part of the problem, especially in PvE. I'm playing many events that I played when I started, and they are probably harder now when they were back then. Lvl 40 Juggs vs lvl 50 Ironman isn't a big deal. But when they spin Juggs up to 200, boy howdy, he's no joke.

Leveling up and getting better characters should make things easier, and allow you to finish things you couldn't before. For MPQ, it is the exact opposite, and people actually fear getting 5*s too early because they know it will bite them in the ***.

The thing is, they could fix that issue quite easily, simply ease off on the scaling a bit, increase the amount of characters considered for calculating the scaling from 3 and only take their base levels not the boosted one.

Oh, I agree completely. In fact, almost all of the major complaints that get repeated over and over like scaling and ISO shortage have solutions that, on paper, should be incredibly simple. But, these requests have been ignored so often people start offering more and more alternate suggestions.

Which really makes me think this isn't best as a plea for suggestions, but a plea for better communication and guidance from devs on what they think of all the suggestions already on the table and explanations on why they are or are not priorities.

Take ISO for example. It is extremely, painfully clear that the feeling is it is far too limited. But, they've already doubled it once for a temporary stint during the anniversary. So, it isn't a programming issue. The programming is already there, and has already been in the game. We ultimately need explanation on why they felt it better the programming work done wouldn't be permanent.

Unknown

Raffoon wrote:

After a few busy days away, I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed that the thread I made with constructive analysis and proposed solutions petered out after a page and a half.

Meanwhile the other thread I made a week or two ago, wishing various comical and annoying misfortune on the devs for creating such a broken system went on for something like 4-5 pages.

Meh, I guess I shouldn't write such long posts.

Sadly, and I suspect you know this, it's likely got much more to do with who is actually left on the forum these days than the quality level or length of your thoughts.

You're clearly one of the few remaining players/posters still hoping things can be turned around and you know I commend you for it, but so many of that type of player has long since given up. I mean, if you need evidence of this, look at a few of the current MFF alliances.

DBC