Progression vs Placement

Arctic_One

Wouldn't it be nice if these 2 reward systems were separated for PvP?
In PvE, you can play for progression without being hurt by those playing for placement rewards. This is clearly not the case with PvP where I only want to reach top progression reward and have no concern about which place I finish in.

I join an event, I pick my slice, I pick my preference of progression or placement.
Placement likely wouldn't need to change at all. Same rewards at same placements as is the case now.
Progression however would likely need to increase to 2000 or beyond for top progression as there would be no loss of points due to attacks or retaliation although losses to the AI will still result in a loss of points. Perhaps retaliations could still result in a loss of points as well but certainly not attacks. Keeping top reward as a Classic Legendary token or perhaps a Latest Legendary token only if the event is for a newly released character. Add in a single CP reward at 1500.
Silly idea? Have a tweak or ten? Better idea altogether?

I'm just getting too discouraged by consistently jetting to 800+ points and never reaching 1000. Then ending events with 500 points because it's a waste of HP to shield when I have already gotten the best reward I can hope to attain in the event. I've tried every tactic possible and I have yet to find the "insta-kill a half-dozen Jean-Busters while remaining shielded" button.

simonsez

Arctic_One wrote:

it's a waste of HP to shield

Because you're going to do what exactly with it now?

Magic

simonsez wrote:

Arctic_One wrote:

it's a waste of HP to shield

Because you're going to do what exactly with it now?

I intend to use the HP for packs. When I get the small vault I could buy all 80 awards (unless the ones I want are collected in first 40-pack). That is not an unreasonable amount of HP that you can gather if you skip the shields a bit (and not overspend for slots). So there is still alternative use for HP.

simonsez

Magic wrote:

I intend to use the HP for packs.

Why would you save up to buy a pack instead of doing the daily deal for one? The math on multi-packs is awful.

Magic

Since I don't have 7k HP yet (and no 80 awards vault for that matter) I have not decided what I will do - one by one or in big haul. It's just to point out that with the spare HP I will do something I haven't done before - play some lotto.

Chief270

Its much more cost effective to 3/8/3/8 hops over buying any 10 pack, plus you know exactly what you will be getting for that HP spent, and not left up to a random draw(even with the vaults).

Magic

Chief270 wrote:

Its much more cost effective to 3/8/3/8 hops over buying any 10 pack, plus you know exactly what you will be getting for that HP spent, and not left up to a random draw(even with the vaults).

I don't seem to understand. 3/8/3/8 shield is a bit much. My target in PVP is 1k award. I can get it with anything from 0 to 2 shields. No need for more. If I would go for 1.3 I get a random reward anyway.

Monged4life

Well not everyone has the same roster. Just because you can stroll to 1000 without being torn apart the second you peep over 800 doesn't mean everyone else can...

kalex716

Magic wrote:

Chief270 wrote:

Its much more cost effective to 3/8/3/8 hops over buying any 10 pack, plus you know exactly what you will be getting for that HP spent, and not left up to a random draw(even with the vaults).

I don't seem to understand. 3/8/3/8 shield is a bit much. My target in PVP is 1k award. I can get it with anything from 0 to 2 shields. No need for more. If I would go for 1.3 I get a random reward anyway.

Explain how? Whats your roster? Do you have JG and Hulkbuster?

I don't have any competitive 4 stars, so I can only do it if some of the good 3 stars are boosted. And even then, only by shield hopping + sick boosts for the last 3 or 4 fights.

I used to not get hit at all until about 600+.... But the last 2 pvp's i've started getting ripped up at 300+.

cyineedsn

I think that your estimate of 2k for the top progression is too optimistic unfortunately.

Everyone could skip and fight endless weak low point teams for infinite points, or everyone would just use weaker true heal teams for infinite points. Or, alliances would coordinate to throw out a cupcake team for 1bajillion points that sits there forever. Top progression would be raised to 5k or something outlandish to artificially limit the number of people from getting top progression. Essentially pvp would become just as endlessly grindy as pve.

wade66

They could change the system a bit by making it to where you don't lose points towards progression rewards, but still lose them for placement.

Or add a lock-in type feature, where you can't drop below certain point thresholds once you reach them.

Set one at 500, 750, and lastly, 900. Once you break each one, your score won't fall below, maybe charge hp for them like shields.

JVReal

wade66 wrote:

They could change the system a bit by making it to where you don't lose points towards progression rewards, but still lose them for placement.

Or add a lock-in type feature, where you can't drop below certain point thresholds once you reach them.

Set one at 500, 750, and lastly, 900. Once you break each one, your score won't fall below, maybe charge hp for them like shields.

That would be cool, but essentially we'd still end up with the same problem... my score showed i crossed the threshold but when it synced I had been beat and didn't hit the threshold!

Tony_Foot

Progression V placement in PVE bothers me more. People that play 3/4 or even 7 days of pve deserve more than they get. I can put the effort in for a legendary token and get a pile of crud despite all that effort and probably only get one 3 star cover if I'm lucky. Or I can wait it out do two runs and get 2 or 3 three star covers. Personally I feel the score you get in a PVE event in total should be converted to ISO (At least up to progress). Make 33k progress, get 33k ISO at the end as a bonus. Get 4k and steal in with 3 covers in a new slice, get 4k bonus.

PVE more than PVP for me doesn't reward high enough for actual effort.

Chief270

Magic wrote:

Chief270 wrote:

Its much more cost effective to 3/8/3/8 hops over buying any 10 pack, plus you know exactly what you will be getting for that HP spent, and not left up to a random draw(even with the vaults).

I don't seem to understand. 3/8/3/8 shield is a bit much. My target in PVP is 1k award. I can get it with anything from 0 to 2 shields. No need for more. If I would go for 1.3 I get a random reward anyway.

3/8/3/8 = 75 + 150 + 75 + 150 = 450. That is much less than 2800/3800 or even 1800 for small vaults. And that's only 4 hops. If you can make it to 1k within those four hops, then you shouldn't feel the need to buy a pack that most likely won't net you a 4*.

You said you can make 1k in 0-2 hops. If you put in a little extra(which apparently you are ok throwing HP at packs, so you have it to spare), you can easily make that 1.3 goal and get a legendary. Lets say it takes you 10 hops to make it there.

3/8/3/8/3/8/3/8/3 = 1125 hp. That's STILL less than a 10x pack(of any type). And your "random reward" at 1.3k.. is a guaranteed 4* or better. Not the ~5% * 10 chance you get from opening a pack.

Buret0

You would need to separate out the streams, otherwise you would have unshielded "Progression Only" people just sitting out there with a garbage team letting other people destroy him to feed the PvP placement guys.

PeterGibbons316

Chief270 wrote:

Magic wrote:

Chief270 wrote:

Its much more cost effective to 3/8/3/8 hops over buying any 10 pack, plus you know exactly what you will be getting for that HP spent, and not left up to a random draw(even with the vaults).

I don't seem to understand. 3/8/3/8 shield is a bit much. My target in PVP is 1k award. I can get it with anything from 0 to 2 shields. No need for more. If I would go for 1.3 I get a random reward anyway.

3/8/3/8 = 75 + 150 + 75 + 150 = 450. That is much less than 2800/3800 or even 1800 for small vaults. And that's only 4 hops. If you can make it to 1k within those four hops, then you shouldn't feel the need to buy a pack that most likely won't net you a 4*.

You said you can make 1k in 0-2 hops. If you put in a little extra(which apparently you are ok throwing HP at packs, so you have it to spare), you can easily make that 1.3 goal and get a legendary. Lets say it takes you 10 hops to make it there.

3/8/3/8/3/8/3/8/3 = 1125 hp. That's STILL less than a 10x pack(of any type). And your "random reward" at 1.3k.. is a guaranteed 4* or better. Not the ~5% * 10 chance you get from opening a pack.

I agree. It's SO HARD to hold on to that HP when you have such a huge stash of it, but you will earn SO MUCH more for the same amount by spending it on shields than on RNG packs.

I was tempted to buy a 40-pack last season, but instead used the HP to hit 1300 in every single PvP event....and still had a lot of HP leftover.

Magic

I have Hulkbuster but not maxed (max covered) and no Jean. At this point in my game 1k seems to be enough for me. I see the math - thanks. It's just I can't schedule the hops to 1.3k. It's too much work for me. I will consider this when i have iso to max buster and maybe get more covers for Jean or IceMan (with iso). For the moment - 1k it is (hopefully just with 3h shield to protect the score) and I will stockpile HP for a while. And no - I don't have a huge amount - 3-4k is my starting point.

madsalad

So far this season I've hit 1k twice with two shields. However, if I try to battle anything over 1K, I get smacked down under 1K immediately and then lose any hope of good placement.

That gap between 1K and 1,300 is HUGE. When you are searching nodes prior to battle after hitting 1K I keep pulling up stuff in the mid to high 30s. I need battles at least worth 50+ to make it worth my while.

Right now, I'm 9th in Teenage Riot slice with 1015 and 10.5 hours to go. Top 5 starts at 1073 and #1 is 1385. In the next 10.5 hours I'm sure I'll be bumped out of the Top 10. I will continue skipping nodes looking for a good couple of battles to get my score higher to insure Top 10 but when I did that on Blind Justice, I ended up getting knocked down to 710, at having been over 1K, during two battles.

LordXberk

Play with a 5/4/3 HB and 5/4/2 JG both at Level 200 for now and I still get hit above 800. Haven't been able to make it to 1000 w/o a shield, but that's where I hope to get once I max those 2. Maybe work 1/1/1 OML into the mix to climb. Regardless, it'll save on HP.

And, I don't know what the solution for crazy scores and progression v. placement might be. For now, I'm happy w/ the LT prog at 1300 and everything else is a bonus. I don't have the desire to spend 1000s of HP on placement. I'm #28 in Teen Riot w/ my 1340 score. Top 10 is 2383. Leader is sitting w/ 2991 and climbing right now.

I'm never gonna hit #1 and the rest of the rewards aren't worth fighting for unless it's for the thrill of being the best. Props to those guys, though, bcs it's more points in the system for everyone.

rossmon

I'm sorry, I used to feel the same way, but....
If you don't have shields and don't lose points, it's really not PVP. Then it really is PvE, it's just other players setting up the environment. PvP requires some way for the other players to affect you.


Successful PvP is something you have to learn, and it's not for beginners. I didn't start hitting 800 or 1000 consistently until I started moving my 3* characters to 140. Once I did that, I was able to start hitting 1300 with extra shields. 800-1000 needs 2 or sometimes 3 shields. so 225-300 hp. Most of that you make back in the PVP progression anyway.

Phaserhawk

Arctic_One wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice if these 2 reward systems were separated for PvP?
In PvE, you can play for progression without being hurt by those playing for placement rewards. This is clearly not the case with PvP where I only want to reach top progression reward and have no concern about which place I finish in.

I join an event, I pick my slice, I pick my preference of progression or placement.
Placement likely wouldn't need to change at all. Same rewards at same placements as is the case now.
Progression however would likely need to increase to 2000 or beyond for top progression as there would be no loss of points due to attacks or retaliation although losses to the AI will still result in a loss of points. Perhaps retaliations could still result in a loss of points as well but certainly not attacks. Keeping top reward as a Classic Legendary token or perhaps a Latest Legendary token only if the event is for a newly released character. Add in a single CP reward at 1500.
Silly idea? Have a tweak or ten? Better idea altogether?

I'm just getting too discouraged by consistently jetting to 800+ points and never reaching 1000. Then ending events with 500 points because it's a waste of HP to shield when I have already gotten the best reward I can hope to attain in the event. I've tried every tactic possible and I have yet to find the "insta-kill a half-dozen Jean-Busters while remaining shielded" button.

Without knowing your roster, perhaps you are just reaching the upper ends of it. A fully developed 3* roster can easily tackle Jeanbuster any day with the character boosts. There are the times when there is just no good damage dealer in the group, but if HT, Cyc, Thor, Magneto etc are boosted, they can rip Jean buster a new one.

I will give you a hint though. Before I got my 4*'s up to snuff I would get squashed when say the new release of a 4* going up against maxed character. I remember when 4* Thor got released I couldn't get past 1000 because I couldn't deal with her. After searching, there is a fun little guy that can deal with your issues.

***Punisher***

Keep him from taking too much damage and that 8AP red can take down Jean and IMHB. Get IMHB to 7124 and Jean to 5589. That's only 10686 to IMHB and 8384 to JG. That turns them into 3*'s health wise.

Punisher and Cyc are good ways to push to that 1K reward.