Regarding Power Upgrade Purchasing Changes

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

If you guys are SINCERE that this is only about tying rewards to gameplay, and you really aren't trying to slow down progression, you need to set the 4* price FAR LOWER than it is now. Just do the math. Add up what a T10 PvE player earns in HP vs. CP, and set the price point accordingly.

I don't think the price needs to be lower, the rate at which you can earn CP needs to be higher. If a top 10 PvE player makes 1500 a week, they should be able to earn 72CP per week.

I can understand wanting to slow that down/not make it one to one with HP, so even 40-50 per week seems like a good number. Currently we're around 25 I think. Add to PvP progression/rewards, add to DDQ, call it a day.

tiomono

I like the recent changes. I also think with the growing number of 4 stars they could use a new token type to split up old and new, just like they are with the 5 stars.

BlackSheep101

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I don't think the price needs to be lower, the rate at which you can earn CP needs to be higher.

Six, meet my friend Dozen. Dozen, Six.

Unknown

I'm not a forum guy, im a mature and paying casual player. but i'm here. so Im NOT happy!
Lots of people bought HP when it was sale. Lots of people like to play and dont read forums. When a nerf comes thats a bummer when u payed, but thats life, i can cope with that.
But now after 2 weeks without any in game warning and after u payed 100 euros with a real goal its all gone, what happened o_O. That feels like buying a car and pay upfront and then the car is stripped before you pick it up.
Im playing casually for 2 years and was waiting for a missing color cover and then buy the rest ,so i can be back in action. My xmass present to myself(buying the HP)...
My xforce alone cant compete with the good legendaries that came out . but now im stuck with almost 30k of hp. It takes ages to get good covers. I dont feel like buying tokens with it and after buying 10 roster spots i can go on for a few months.
the championing update is great but wont give me 10 hulkbusters in short time. tbh i got 0 out of 15-20, just bad luck.

So heres a suggestion.
Communicate better especially when it will affect money transitions. And make a nice gesture to the people who affected this and announce that there will be 1 weekend or day which everybody can use there HP for what they bought it for.
It would be nice to warn 1 month and 1 week before the end so people can anticipate and dont get to use stockpiled hp for things they didnt want to buy with it.If I knew i wouldnt buy the HP, and thats the real problem here.

What happened here is seriously not customer friendly and im blaming you d3. I'm considering to take the 100 euro loss and stop this madness. Cause it rly rly hurts, i feel robbed.

JohnDoeNL

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I don't think the price needs to be lower, the rate at which you can earn CP needs to be higher.

The problem is that the price to buy a cover vs. the price to buy a legendary would still feel out of whack. Having a specific 4* cost 6x as much as a random 4* feels wrong. Unless you're really far along with your roster, most players would benefit more from 6 random pulls than one specific cover.

generalTsobot

BlackSheep101 wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I don't think the price needs to be lower, the rate at which you can earn CP needs to be higher.

Six, meet my friend Dozen. Dozen, Six.

On the face of it, yes, they're equivalent. However, if Demiurge wants to tie cover acquisition more tightly to in-game performance rather than dollars, then increasing the rate at which CP can be won as in-game rewards makes more sense. Otherwise, if the price is lowered, whales can still purchase CP (although still not a very feasible option for the vast majority of people) and acquire covers, keeping the status quo.

If the only change being made to cover acquisition is swapping the HP for CP, at a much higher rate, then what others have already pointed out is correct: that transitions to each tier have gotten a lot slower, as cover acquisition options have been reduced.

I'd like to think that there are more changes coming that will help with additional performance-based rewards in the game. Otherwise, I can see players becoming frustrated with the now even-slower transitions to each tier and luck-based system of acquiring 5*s, without even feasible financial options to explore to accelerate the climb. In short, the carrot may be getting too far out of reach, unless the upcoming "quality of life" and other changes improve the outlook.

Der_Lex

JohnDoeNL wrote:

I'm not a forum guy, im a mature and paying casual player. but i'm here. so Im NOT happy!
Lots of people bought HP when it was sale. Lots of people like to play and dont read forums. When a nerf comes thats a bummer when u payed, but thats life, i can cope with that.
But now after 2 weeks without any in game warning and after u payed 100 euros with a real goal its all gone, what happened o_O. That feels like buying a car and pay upfront and then the car is stripped before you pick it up.
Im playing casually for 2 years and was waiting for a missing color cover and then buy the rest ,so i can be back in action. My xmass present to myself(buying the HP)...
My xforce alone cant compete with the good legendaries that came out . but now im stuck with almost 30k of hp. It takes ages to get good covers. I dont feel like buying tokens with it and after buying 10 roster spots i can go on for a few months.
the championing update is great but wont give me 10 hulkbusters in short time. tbh i got 0 out of 15-20, just bad luck.

So heres a suggestion.
Communicate better especially when it will affect money transitions. And make a nice gesture to the people who affected this and announce that there will be 1 weekend or day which everybody can use there HP for what they bought it for.
It would be nice to warn 1 month and 1 week before the end so people can anticipate and dont get to use stockpiled hp for things they didnt want to buy with it.If I knew i wouldnt buy the HP, and thats the real problem here.

What happened here is seriously not customer friendly and im blaming you d3. I'm considering to take the 100 euro loss and stop this madness. Cause it rly rly hurts, i feel robbed.

JohnDoeNL

If I were you, I'd either see if customer service is willing to help you out, or otherwise contest the charges with apple/google and see if you can get your money back.

Punisher5784

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

Also, a greater percentage of Command Points come from gameplay than is the case for Hero Points. Instead of something that most players would buy directly with real money, earning a Power Upgrade now shifts to a long-term gameplay goal for all players.

I can reach 1000 HP way before I could reach 100 CP so I do not understand where they get this impression?

You have to grind like crazy in both PVE/PVP just to earn 1-3 CP per event, whereas HP is given in Progression rewards and Event rewards, plus tokens for Vaults (e.g. Taco), meanwhile we have a small opportunity to somehow win the CP from the broken 4/4 rewards in PVE. Outside of the 30-day supply to earn 10-30 CP (depending on how many Days you've played), there is no real way to earn a decent amount of CP. Plus you can buy HP, you cannot buy CP, technically.

You have teased us with CP being in the vault once (e.g. Holiday vault), being progression (again, Holiday PVP) and completing DDQ (only during implementation). So unless you increase the ways we can earn CP without killing ourselves grinding, then you have a disappointed gaming community. If this moves into roster slots costing CP, expect players to quit.

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

Unless you're really far along with your roster, most players would benefit more from 6 random pulls than one specific cover.

Their philosophy seems to be (at least based on the OP here) that they don't want you to direct buy rewards but know it's silly to outright prevent it, because they still have to make money. So the cover cost/real $ ratio was purposely raised higher. My guess is they figure they'll sell less but make more when they do, so revenue is a wash. (whether or not that's true probably deserves its own thread) With that, they want to present more value in not direct buying, so the tokens are costed at point where the vast majority of players will benefit from not holding out for direct purchases.

The kicker then is that vets who might otherwise rely on direct purchases are now left with two unattractive options, roll the dice on these cheap tokens or spend/grind more for the same goods. I think the idea behind championing is to somewhat offset the first, by leaving an avenue for the previously wasted covers.

The second is what needs fixing. They can't really adjust the $/CP ratio because of how they released 5 stars, so fixing the spend rate won't work.. That leaves them to fix the grind rate (or more specifically, increase player engagement). Their gameplay mechanics don't really allow that for maximum rewards though, so the only thing they can do (as I see it) is expand their reward structures.

Part of me thinks they understand that too, given the change to PvE structure and hints at revamping other rewards. How they implement it will be the $64000 question. I think there's no doubt however that with these economics, more CP flow is needed (not to mention Iso flow with every new character)

GrumpySmurf1002

Punisher5784 wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

Also, a greater percentage of Command Points come from gameplay than is the case for Hero Points. Instead of something that most players would buy directly with real money, earning a Power Upgrade now shifts to a long-term gameplay goal for all players.

I can reach 1000 HP way before I could reach 100 CP so I do not understand where they get this impression?

It's a comparison of CP bought to CP earned (and HP bought/HP earned). Not a comparison of CP earned to HP earned.

Which of course is true. 20k HP buys 7CP. A week of solid PvE gameplay probably earns 1000HP/10 CP. So of course the ratio of CP bought/earned is higher.

jigawatt

JohnDoeNL wrote:

I'm not a forum guy, im a mature and paying casual player. but i'm here. so Im NOT happy!
...
What happened here is seriously not customer friendly and im blaming you d3. Cause it rly rly hurts, i feel robbed.

JohnDoeNL

The devs have it clear- everyone who is not going to grind the hell out of this game, everyone who is not a true whale ($100s a week) can get the **** out. Shame, really, cuz I'm one of the ones who'll slowly but surely getting the **** out myself. I used to play 3,4 6 hours a day exclusively. But if this game is seriously gonna tell me to grind for a month or 3 in order to make a minimum progression, well I'm too old for that ****. Too bad for them cuz I already spent $100 in a month buying covers. ****.

Pylgrim

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I don't think the price needs to be lower, the rate at which you can earn CP needs to be higher.

The problem is that the price to buy a cover vs. the price to buy a legendary would still feel out of whack. Having a specific 4* cost 6x as much as a random 4* feels wrong. Unless you're really far along with your roster, most players would benefit more from 6 random pulls than one specific cover.

I am facing this conundrum right now. I had saved 140 CPs waiting for these new tokens. The second one gave me my 4th red Hulkbuster, the only one I've ever opened (I earned or bought the rest). So I have 100 CP left and the dilemma, should I wait and get 20 more CP and finish my HB, or just open 5 tokens right now? Having a fully-covered HB is a great asset, but with me missing over 75% of total 4* covers, if I open 5 tokens, I should get (unless horribly unlucky) 3-4 covers I don't have, including red HB and 5*s. On one hand, I could get really unlucky with my tokens and curse my luck and myself for not buying the cover, or I could buy the cover and then curse myself if it is offered as a reward in the coming days or I open it from other tokens.

I'm not happy having to make such choice and the gross disparity between costs of tokens and covers compounded by the scarcity of CP forces me to make it. By the way, that's not "added strategical depth", it is simply forcing you to try your luck and making extremely punishing to fail it, even though you have no control over the outcome.

Lidolas

jigawatt wrote:

As an actual new player (new as in less than 6 months, way less) this move is terrible. As others have said, if we're coming in with a roster full 1 star and some 2 stars, how long are we supposed to play to get up to a mature 3 star, or 4 star roster? There's a difference between 'longevity' and 'endless grind', and with this they're basically assuming most of their players would LOVE to be locked in to this game for a year or 3 straight. Um, no.

I mean, if they don't want people cover whaling and then quitting, then at LEAST drastically increase the drop rate per 3, 4, and 5* covers so we're actually getting rewarded, instead of just stuck in limbo. The 2* rate is pretty annoying as well, I'm not sure how they think waiting a month for your favorite cover to drop is exciting, but it's not. I guess tinykitty new players, they'll just cater to the 2 and three year whales they have.

When we were in the > > transition, it was a lot harder. You new players have it so easy. You don't even have hills or snow to cross and of course you have shoes

Seriously, they've made huge improvements on the early game in the past 12-18 months. This change is definitely aimed more toward vets, but there's nothing wrong with that.

AdamMagus

For some reason I feel that this change was brought about by customers demanding their money back through Apple App Store/Google play

Say you purchased $100 worth of HP, you proceed to use said HP to buy covers for a popular character, a month or so later Demiurge decides to somewhat alter the character in a way you're not too happy with.

You could attempt to get a refund from the App store contesting that the character you purchased via HP upgrades is no longer what you paid for. Yes technically you are buying HP not the characters, but I really think Apple/Google would side with the player on this

Now, with the new CP power upgrades thing, you can no longer make that claim, because you don't really buy CP, you either earn it through gameplay or it is given to you for "free" as a bonus for supporting the game

/tinfoil hat on

simonsez

aesthetocyst wrote:

TL;DR .... cover purchases are far more realisatic and attainable through gameplay via CP than they were via HP.

... the way YOU play. Not the way I play. I gather you don't like PvE much, that's fine. But don't make pronouncements that are only specific to the way YOU play. For T10 PvE players who are not HP negative on PvP, this is a significant reduction in the number of covers we can buy via gameplay. Asserting otherwise is ignoring basic math.

simonsez

aesthetocyst wrote:

There are 1000 players per PVE bracket.

And the vast majority of them don't give a **** about HP and CP, and aren't grinding the nodes to get the CP.

This forum has never been representative of the playerbase as a whole. But now you're going to be a voice for all the players tooling around with their IM35s, and be their champion and speak out for them? That's great, because the number one priority for someone with a lv37 IM35 is how much HP/CP they need to buy their next 4*. Slow clap for you, dude...

Boommike

simonsez wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

There are 1000 players per PVE bracket.

And the vast majority of them don't give a **** about HP and CP, and aren't grinding the nodes to get the CP.

This forum has never been representative of the playerbase as a whole. But now you're going to be a voice for all the players tooling around with their IM35s, and be their champion and speak out for them? That's great, because the number one priority for someone with a lv37 IM35 is how much HP/CP they need to buy their next 4*. Slow clap for you, dude...

I thought he was pointing out total HP that's earn-able. That's just top 50, right? Per sub? So he doesnt have to represent all 1000 since not all 1000 aren't getting HP (since they "don't give a **** about HP and CP")

simonsez

Boommike wrote:

So he doesnt have to represent all 1000 since not all 1000 aren't getting HP

He's assuming all 1000 are getting all the cp in the nodes. Which they're not. Even the hardcore people on this forum aren't getting all of them. And the majority of those 1000 are casual players using 1* rosters. The cost of a 4* isn't relevant to them. It IS relevant to the people at the top of the leaderboard who ARE earning HP.

Unknown

Well guys,

Since im a tad pissed read the post under the

---

if u like.
I went to googleplay : Dear sir, we wont help you cause the makers have to handle it, go there
I went to D3 : Dear sir, it was announced on the forum , no refund because you can do lots of nice stuff with HP like shielding and gambling for the covers u want...
and now i went back to googleplay. But i dont think i'm getting anywere...

They got me by the balls and tbh the stress aint even worth the 100 euros ><
just wanted you to know now I stop the whining

have fun everbody!

---

Linkster79

aesthetocyst wrote:

It seems the problem may be that he publisher (D3) runs the forum, but the developer (Demiurge) controls in-game messages? Just guessing. Still shouldn't be that big of a deal. A phone call or an email, if the publisher for some reason doesn't have the ability to push something in-game remotely.

Like the change or not, it was a shift to the base economy, a change to something players had lived with for 2yrs. Should have been announced and in advance.

I'm sure that the 2 must have daily Skype conferences. No changes in game can come from just the publisher they have to be coded, likewise the developers have to ratify changes with the publishers to ensure they coincide with their long term goals of the game. I absolutely refuse to believe that at any time during these discussions that nobody within the 2 organisations doesn't even think to make the players aware of major changes in game. It has to be a conscience decision to keep in game announcements to a minimum just as it is a conscience decision by the publishers to largely leave the forums for untrained volunteer moderators to deal with. Apparently there are 2 community managers for the forums yet somehow neither one can find time in their schedules to even make an attempt to address players concerns with in game issues.