I signed up for a game, not a lottery

PorkBelly

A 50 item Legendary Vault would be the way to go.

45 4* & 5 5*s.

No expiration & doesn't reset until you pay (HP or CP) to do so or it is emptied.

Pull rates would be the same but you would be guaranteed that rate over the next 50 tokens.

GrumpySmurf1002

Polares wrote:

Patient, why ?!?!?!?! I play JUST for 5s (and now also for iso), If I can't get 5s, then why am I playing ?!?!?!? (very good question indeed...).

The better question: If you're playing just for 5*, what are you playing for when you get them?

puppychow

Deadpooool wrote:

Perhaps I would be more peeved if this turns out to be untrue somewhere down the road where you actually NEED 5* to be able to hit progressions and place reasonably well in PVP (which isn't such a big deal to me, since I already have all the 3* fully covered at this point.)

I want to emphasize this excellent point. The game still hasn't reached the point where 450s (and eventually 550s) will be a prerequisite to placing t10 in every bracket. And I"m not convinced we will ever reach that stage, b/c I don't think the game has enough players willing to spend $10k+ to make that happen.

puppychow

PorkBelly wrote:

A 50 item Legendary Vault would be the way to go.

45 4* & 5 5*s.

No expiration & doesn't reset until you pay (HP or CP) to do so or it is emptied.

Pull rates would be the same but you would be guaranteed that rate over the next 50 tokens.

That's an interesting idea. If the publisher offers special tokens specially for this legendary vault, at a cost of $20 per token, I wonder how many super whales would go for it.

Stax the Foyer

puppychow wrote:

Deadpooool wrote:

Perhaps I would be more peeved if this turns out to be untrue somewhere down the road where you actually NEED 5* to be able to hit progressions and place reasonably well in PVP (which isn't such a big deal to me, since I already have all the 3* fully covered at this point.)

I want to emphasize this excellent point. The game still hasn't reached the point where 450s (and eventually 550s) will be a prerequisite to placing t10 in every bracket. And I"m not convinced we will ever reach that stage, b/c I don't think the game has enough players willing to spend $10k+ to make that happen.

I don't think 550s will ever be a factor, but don't underestimate the effect of the flood of LTs that are coming in as a result of the Champion rollout. Some people are going to be very lucky with those pulls. (Others, like me, may never see a yellow OML)

I'm expecting to see a lot more 5*s over the next few weeks because of this.

simonsez

puppychow wrote:

I want to emphasize this excellent point. The game still hasn't reached the point where 450s (and eventually 550s) will be a prerequisite to placing t10 in every bracket. And I"m not convinced we will ever reach that stage

If you're saying that 5*s aren't already negatively impacting your PvP experience, I need to know the secret handshake that gains entry into your brackets...

Unknown

I guess no one here has farmed raid bosses weekly for months on end to get those class-specific items you need for the next tier of content.

It's an exercise in tolerance for randomness.

Dwarfsteel

simonsez wrote:

Dwarfsteel wrote:

I'm not missing the point. Raffoon wants 5*'s to be more available than they currently are or to have his pull percentage be on par with the posted rates.

That's not what he said at all. He already explicitly told you in a followup he does NOT want them to be more available or any changes to pull rates, and yet you claim you're not missing the point. You clearly are, when you continue to put words in his mouth that contradict what he was saying.

Raffoon wrote:

I don't want a higher general rate for the 5*s, or for them to be more easily available. I want them to be given out in a more consistent manner.

This is what he said. Any changes to what the system currently is so that he or anyone else can more easily attain them other than luck is asking for them to make them more available. Whether or not he's explicitly saying it, that's what it boils down to. It doesn't matter what change they make it is going to make them more available. Unless they implemented a system that **** those who are ahead until everyone catches up (I could only imagine the **** storm that would come of they) there will always be players luckier than others, there will always be players who pay more money than others, and there will always be players who put in more effort than others. So there will always be someone with more than you no matter what you do. Unless of course you're that one shining star that is number one in everything.

He's griping about his bad luck and that his pull percentages don't match the advertised rate. Well welcome to the club. There's only a small percentage of the overall player base that do. Some are ahead of the curve, some are behind the curve. Some are way behind the curve, some are way ahead of it. This game didn't suddenly become majorly based on luck. Just about everyone's progress is based on luck, money, or time. Depending on your mixture of those factors determines your progress. Nothing has changed. It's just they've added some new shiny toys for everyone to drool over and this is exactly what D3 wants. It's what drive the game. If you don't like the ride no one is forcing you to take it.

So if this is not what he's essentially asking for, then what is it? Someone to wave a magic wand and change his luck and everyone who is behind the token curve to get, at bare minimum, the posted pull rates? Create a vault (still luck involved)? Doesn't matter how you slice it that's still making them more available than they are currently.

We all understand the frustration of the luck aspect of this game because we've all experienced it. Doesn't matter what stage you're at. It's just it's more acutely felt the higher you progress.

Dimh

simonsez wrote:

Dimh wrote:

Your sample size is way too low. Let's talk when you get to 10,000 LT and remain at 3% draw rate.

edit> I apparently do not know how to quote things properly...

And you also don't know how to make relevant points, if you think anyone is going to be earning 10,000 tokens.

And you miss the point entirely. We have someone in alliance who has gotten 13 5* in 2 weeks time. I guess 5* are much too common and the drop rate should be reduced, right?

Stax the Foyer

Dwarfsteel wrote:

He's griping about his bad luck and that his pull percentages don't match the advertised rate. Well welcome to the club. There's only a small percentage of the overall player base that do. Some are ahead of the curve, some are behind the curve. Some are way behind the curve, some are way ahead of it. This game didn't suddenly become majorly based on luck. Just about everyone's progress is based on luck, money, or time. Depending on your mixture of those factors determines your progress. Nothing has changed. It's just they've added some new shiny toys for everyone to drool over and this is exactly what D3 wants. It's what drive the game. If you don't like the ride no one is forcing you to take it.

But, it kinda did. The changes to the 4* distribution (even taking into account the PvE reward changes), and the entire distribution process for 5*s, which are incredibly powerful relative to 4*s. This is the first time in MPQ where you can't offset bad luck with your wallet. That's a pretty big change.

Warbringa

I would only say to the OP if you are in or close to 5* star land, you had to know the game rewards were primarily built around randomness from the start of the game. Tokens are like a pack of cards, just as is in any other game that you buy random assortments (collectible trading card games for example) you don't know what you are going to get. In collectible card games, you can trade cards or buy them on the secondary market to acquire cards you didn't pull from packs. The game publisher gets no direct revenue from these transactions. Indirectly, there is a small benefit to the publisher with the hope of more purchases of packs, but how much an actual monetary benefit the publisher receives is arguable. So that is why there is no ability or function in MPQ to do so. Thus you are basically left with set/placement rewards, cover buying and tokens in MPQ as ways to get covers (i.e. cards) you need. Cover buying seems to have been an issue for some reason for the devs/publisher. They wouldn't have made these changes in my opinion unless either/or: 1) cover purchasing wasn't providing significant revenue 2.) cover purchasing was ruining the balance of the game and/or transitioning phases of the game. If the vast majority of revenue comes from tokens, wouldn't you prefer to keep those players happy compared to those who spend on cover buying? I imagine the crossover between to two groups (those who bought covers vs. those who bought primarily tokens) are pretty slim.

Dwarfsteel

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Dwarfsteel wrote:

He's griping about his bad luck and that his pull percentages don't match the advertised rate. Well welcome to the club. There's only a small percentage of the overall player base that do. Some are ahead of the curve, some are behind the curve. Some are way behind the curve, some are way ahead of it. This game didn't suddenly become majorly based on luck. Just about everyone's progress is based on luck, money, or time. Depending on your mixture of those factors determines your progress. Nothing has changed. It's just they've added some new shiny toys for everyone to drool over and this is exactly what D3 wants. It's what drive the game. If you don't like the ride no one is forcing you to take it.

But, it kinda did. The changes to the 4* distribution (even taking into account the PvE reward changes), and the entire distribution process for 5*s, which are incredibly powerful relative to 4*s. This is the first time in MPQ where you can't offset bad luck with your wallet. That's a pretty big change.

The first time in MPQ? As far as I know you could always buy tokens. You can still buy covers (admittedly now they're way more expensive) Other than cost, how is the current set up any different than before? People can, and always could, whale the highest end of the game. It just costs more to do so. Luck has always been one of the supporting pillars of the game's mechanics and it's the only factor that we as players cannot directly control. For many, this factor is the most frustrating because of the fact it is the one thing we cannot control. Understandably for 5*'s this pillar is supporting much more than in the other tiers, but for where this game is currently I feel it's a good thing. It sucks and it's frustrating for those at the highest end of play who are behind the curve, but we all feel the RNG's sting.

Linkster79

Punisher5784 wrote:

But I thought everyone loves the randomness of opening tokens.. no? Perhaps the devs are mistaken on what we want/like.

Active forum users cry out against randomness of tokens, analysis show many more tokens being opened in the last week than the last 4 weeks combined. The metrics say we love tokens, numbers don't lie

Stax the Foyer

Dwarfsteel wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Dwarfsteel wrote:

He's griping about his bad luck and that his pull percentages don't match the advertised rate. Well welcome to the club. There's only a small percentage of the overall player base that do. Some are ahead of the curve, some are behind the curve. Some are way behind the curve, some are way ahead of it. This game didn't suddenly become majorly based on luck. Just about everyone's progress is based on luck, money, or time. Depending on your mixture of those factors determines your progress. Nothing has changed. It's just they've added some new shiny toys for everyone to drool over and this is exactly what D3 wants. It's what drive the game. If you don't like the ride no one is forcing you to take it.

But, it kinda did. The changes to the 4* distribution (even taking into account the PvE reward changes), and the entire distribution process for 5*s, which are incredibly powerful relative to 4*s. This is the first time in MPQ where you can't offset bad luck with your wallet. That's a pretty big change.

The first time in MPQ? As far as I know you could always buy tokens. You can still buy covers (admittedly now they're way more expensive) Other than cost, how is the current set up any different than before? People can, and always could, whale the highest end of the game. It just costs more to do so. Luck has always been one of the supporting pillars of the game's mechanics and it's the only factor that we as players cannot directly control. For many, this factor is the most frustrating because of the fact it is the one thing we cannot control. Understandably for 5*'s this pillar is supporting much more than in the other tiers, but for where this game is currently I feel it's a good thing. It sucks and it's frustrating for those at the highest end of play who are behind the curve, but we all feel the RNG's sting.

It's a difference of degree. Of course you can buy/win tokens. You've also been able to buy covers if the tokens didn't fall your way, in case you were unsatisfied with your draws, along with winning specific covers as ranking/progression awards. Luck was always a factor, but it's functionally the only factor now.

In another post of yours, you asked about similarities with the 4* rollout. That was much, much different than the 5* rollout. Once 4*s became viable (Fury release and XForce revamp), you could make slow but steady progression on them, as they were available in a variety of progression/ranking/alliance rewards. Luck played a role, but so did time and/or money. The complete randomness of 5*s is a sea change, which is part of why you're seeing this reaction, now that time can only get you token pulls, and money still doesn't guarantee anything.

simonsez

Dimh wrote:

And you miss the point entirely. We have someone in alliance who has gotten 13 5* in 2 weeks time. I guess 5* are much too common and the drop rate should be reduced, right?

No one is saying the drop rate should be changed. We're saying progression via randomized tokens is **** ****. Got it now?

simonsez

denouement wrote:

I guess no one here has farmed raid bosses weekly for months on end to get those class-specific items you need for the next tier of content.

It's an exercise in tolerance for randomness.

But the thing is, if you're farming items, you get them eventually. And once you're do, you're on the same level as other folks who have them. But if someone has pulled 3x as many 5s as I have from the same number of tokens, there's no mechanism in place for me to EVER catch up.

simonsez

Dwarfsteel wrote:

This is what he said. Any changes to what the system currently is so that he or anyone else can more easily attain them other than luck is asking for them to make them more available.

Like hell it is. If there's a system in place where 30 people earn 30 tokens each, and 10 people get three 5*s, 10 get one 5*, and 10 get five 5*s, and you change this to a system where those 30 people earn three 5*s each, they didn't become "more available". In both cases, 90 5*s were given out. It simply becomes equitable. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

tanis3303

So wait...you're essentially asking that players who put forth the same amount of effort are rewarded equally? Madness!!!

simonsez

Dwarfsteel wrote:

This game didn't suddenly become majorly based on luck.

Yes it did. For someone at your level, you might not notice the change, but for people who play more than casually, the game used to be based on how hard you busted your **** in PvE to gain rank awards, how well you picked your spots in PvE to get progression/rank awards you needed, and how hard you grinded to accumulate and stockpile HP to buy the last few covers you needed. Nobody ever was dependent on token luck to fill out their 4*s. That's not the way anyone ever played the game. But now, token luck is all we have. It's completely based on luck.

simonsez

tanis3303 wrote:

So wait...you're essentially asking that players who put forth the same amount of effort are rewarded equally? Madness!!!

Scandalous, I know...