Forum Thread

Unknown

I think they saturated the damage curve too much in the most important region (for me at least, and probably for most players). It might not be that important because power damage dominates those levels anyway, but it sure makes it hard to set up tanking as desired.

While you've been compiling this information, have you seen any indication that 4* or 3* toons have different "archetypes", like the 5*s do? Or are all they all they same (per tier) for a given level?

On a related note: any indication how the 4* dmg compares to 5* dmg per level? I assume "roughly equivalent"?

D4Ni13

Hy all.

I've started an experiment regarding Health / Ability Damage increase on my rooster. Unfortunately, I can't give you any data on 4-stars because they are pretty low, so no champion material there for now. What I can give you is info on 2-stars and 3-stars.

I only started yesterday, so I don't have so much data right now, given the fact that the actual values might have changed (with R91) from those written on the Wiki (I have seen some differences in numbers at current leveling 3-stars (Rocket & Groot lvl 142: old value: 9150, new value: 9197). So that means that I have to trust only the data I see from now on.

I'm gonna post my first day finds, so I can give you an idea of what I saw (will post on a separate topic when I have better and relevant results).

So let's start with the 2-stars.
My experiments were on Magneto (marvel NOW!) and Storm (Classic) since I had more covers for them.

Magneto **


As you can see from the picture, the Health curve is pretty straight forward for Mags (+51 on every level for now), while the damage curve is somewhat different, but not that much (I suspect +11 for the start, and +12 for every other 14 levels).

So we should expect a full 144 Magneto ** to be somewhere at 7548 Health and 2740 Damage.

Storm **


While in Mags case the things were easier to foresee, the average numbers for Storm are *.5 which can mean 2 things:
a) we have a different curve
b) it's straight forward but it rounds up or down, so we never see the 0.5 difference in the interface

Both can be possible. I know other games that used many decimals in their calculation, but the players only saw rounded numbers.

lets take the b) variant for now, until we gather more data, and so we should expect an 144 Storm ** to be at: 3815 Health and 2765 Damage.

2-star conclusion
Until I check with the other 2-stars I own, let's just asume that:
1. The Health curve is straight forward, and it gets rounded (up or down).
2. The Damage curve is not straight forward, but it's very linear with small differences across the 50 levels interval, starting from X, with lots of X+1 and X+2, and probably finishes with X+3.

In the 3-stars department I used 2 heros as experiments (but soon the number will grow):
The Hulk (the original one); Rocket & Groot;

The Hulk ***


As you can see from the picture the numbers here are pretty straight forward:
Health: 67.5 per level (just like Storm's *.5 numbers)
Damage: +3 per level

To predict what a full 266 Hulk will look like is harder, because his damage output is tied with number of tiles destroyed and so the match tile damage (since that is the number inflicted when the tile is destroyed).

But lets say for now that a 266 Hulk will be around or better than: 18225 Health and 1499 + tile destroyed Damage

Rocket & Groot***


As you can see Rocket & Groot is not maxed yet, so I wanted to test the growth in ability and health for the last 25 levels, since the readjusting the scalling of the number in R91.

From what I saw, I think this scale is different from the Championing one, and I don't think the Health and Damage are straight forward here. I think they follow a curve like aesthetocyst presented in this topic. We already know what a 166 Rocket & Groot looks like. What it's important here is to see the difference between normal growing and championing growing, but for that I need more time.

Final Conclusions:
All this data and calculations were made in 1 day of research. That's not much and so it could lead in a wrong direction.

We have more variants, but only time and more data will tell:

a.) For champions the Health curve might be straight forward, and influenced by the number of levels they can grow. (2-star grow 50 levels so the number per level is higher) and the Damage curve might be somewhat linear starting from X, and finishing somewhere at X+3
b.) For champions the Health and Damage curves might start close to linear but may end up flat in the last levels.
c.) We could have 2 kind of curve types completely different. The Health curve could start linear and upwards, and finish flat. The Damage curve could start linear and flat, but could well end up upwards and exponential in last levels.

More on this when I will have relevant results.

Pylgrim

I am extremely disappointed by the part the 3*s got out of this. In order for boosted characters to deal the damage they used to deal at level 240, they'll have to be around level 300; That's a whooping 60 covers you need to get per character! That would be fine if you benefited from your character from being 60 levels higher, always, even when not buffed... but due the flattened advance all through champion levels, you are getting only +5 damage out of your 60 levels. In the meantime, 4*s catapulted forward in damage.

This means that now people closer to the 3* side of the 4* transition will have a much harder time to progress as the chief way of getting more 4* covers (other than the lottery called Legendary Tokens) is the 1k PVP progression reward... for which you have to battle dozens of teams of, now much stronger, level 350 (and now, above!) 4*s, with your, now much weaker, buffed 3*s or non-maxed 4*s. This is no theory or fearmongering. I already had to play a couple PVPs like this: More defeats while attacking, longer battles (while being attacked), and more health packs needed after victories made for a much more difficult climb and hopping.

I think the new curves actually do make sense... if they existed from the beginning. Patching them in now, gives those who (by virtue, spending, or just sheer luck) already got on the final leg of the 4* transition a huge push forward, while making it much more slower and difficult for those hoping to catch up .

It's as though the devs, like a jerk older sibling, annoyed by our constantly telling them that the 4* progression is ailing, decided to give us something to really cry about. We can only hope that these values, like the ability damage ones are also a "bug".

Unknown

Thanks a metric ton, aesthetocyst! A truly impressive amount of work that should never have been necessary, but is greatly appreciated by at least myself.

Wait, what's that I hear? A chant from everyone in attendance? What could it be...

Power ... damage ... power ... damage ... power ... damage ...

Actually, since there are so many powers and they may or may not all scale similarly, I wonder if the data-mining folks can more easily extract that info? All I'd really like to know is if all the powers with dmg/level scaling scale linearly (with different slopes, of course) or if they have odd curves like the match damage. To check linearity, we'd just need 2 different levels of buffing, which I think are typically available. If not linear, then yikes! Good luck collecting, much less visualizing all the data.

Pylgrim

Thanks again for doing all this.

That said, I can tell you that, post-R91, ability damage is not linear with level of character. For instance, Wind Storm at lvl 15 is 238, 94 is 1838 (+21.5 / lvl), 98 is 1913 (+18.75 / lvl), 134 is 2345 (+12 / lvl), 144 is 2436 (+9.1 / lvl), 190 is approx. 2780 (+7.5 / lvl). It tapers.

I had been looking for data on a fully championed (or almost) + boosted character to confirm a hunch I have and this seems to do it. Apparently, ability powers were affected in a way that makes the old max damage (when boosted) become the new max damage. Case in point, it seems as though post-R91 Wind Storm will deal its pre-R91 damage (2880) at the point when it is fully championed and boosted. This may be our vague an elusive "bug": Old max values were mistakenly assigned to new max values and the game automatically generated a new curve to stretch the adjusted values over 50 levels more.

If that's not the case it would mean that what championing truly did was de-level characters by 50 or 100 levels and that's too outrageous to believe even considering D3's track record.

amusingfoo1

I thought it might be interesting to resurrect this, based on what we found out from Balance of Power.

It looked like, from my cursory exploration, that 1-4* all did the same damage (671, IIRC). And 5*s were doing just about double that (1348, IIRC).

I just did a bit of looking around, and it appears that, from 255-450, 5*s roughly quadruple in match damage (and in power damage, come to that). However, from 450-550, they basically double in match damage again (but powers only increase by around 25%).

Hoping someone has looked at this in more detail than I have.

MPQ_Daywalker

I can tell you that a maxed champ, level 550, 5* boosts to level 655, with a whopping 206,243 health.

Source: I asked King Dreadnaught, who provided me with this screenshot from Women of Power:



I now realize this screenshot actually answers another question too -- what level does a maxed champ 4* boost to? The answer? Level 454.

I've added the health and stats for maxed champ Phoenix to my Maxed Champion Character Stats post.

CaptainFreaky

And he already has champed Goblin too....wow. Indeed, good for him!

Edit - his Goblin is Champed not Max Champed - but still - wow.