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aesthetocystaesthetocyst Age Unconfirmed Posts: 538 Critical Contributor
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  • edited January 2016
    so basically championing 3 stars only increases health and ability damage and match damage by a little bit
    (50 champion levels and it goes from 79 to 83) While championing 4 stars increases match damage exponentially.
    Interesting, thanks for taking the time to make this graph.

    edit: To be honest slighly disappointed with the last fourty 3 star covers most likely not increasing the damage anymore. Because this also means you cant chose anymore which character you want to be strongest in a colour. Because if this 3 star has to be a bit weaker than the other, it has to be 30 levels lower.


    2nd edit: perhaps its an interesting idea to make an excel file where we can also help you gather the remaining data (also for 2 stars and possibly other color damage)
  • GuntherBlobelGuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    Great work! Very interesting.

    I know that people are mostly interested in the 3* / 4* range, but did anything change for 2*s?
  • SnowcaTTSnowcaTT Posts: 3,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wow, great work!

    I hope the devs look at these charts and actually scale damage a bit sooner. No typical player (and only very, very few at the super upper end) is realistically getting level 370 4*'s.
  • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanks a lot for doing this. Is it a bit sad, though, that it's up to people like you to scrounge up informed guesses from limited data when the devs should be the ones transparently communicating this, in detail.
    3. 3* champs flat all the way to 266??? The highest 3* I could find was level 224. No sign at that point that their damage values have upward arc at high levels. I hope the do....but at this point, it looks like champ 3*s top out at 85 ... maybe 86.

    This is my main concern and I really hope that we get a red name on this before the months it will take till R94. As it seems to be so far, 3*s got a really bad nerf (except at lower levels... soft-cappers of the world rejoice! even more!). Maxed, buffed 3*s now deals significantly less match and ability damage but 4*s' HP hasn't gone down, which left me wondering how much I have to champion my characters in order to reach the power they once had.

    When championing was first announced, someone posited that championing equalled de-levelling characters as there's now a new max. It sounded ridiculous and alarmist at the time but it seems to be the reality now (hard to know because they won't deign to explain what is intended and what is a bug). As it is, is a kick on the shin to the already limping 3-4* transition. The previous PVP was already much harder because my maxed, buffed 3*s' nukes are only dealing a few hundred more damage than the unbuffed version, taking much longer to take down the dozens of thousands HP of the now harder-hitting maxed, buffed 4*s that dominate the charts in PVP.
  • killerkoalakillerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
    u should put the total unbalance of 5* color damage also.
  • GuntherBlobelGuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    I know that people are mostly interested in the 3* / 4* range, but did anything change for 2*s?
    Just looking at some maxed (Lvl 144) 2* characters, I can see they have a match damage similar to 3/4* characters at the same level (73 match damage). I'll bet that they are on a very similar curve. That's good! It should have been this way all along.

    4* champions become honorary 5*s, I guess... not that it matters to me... It took me a year (maybe more) to get just 13 covers for 4* Thor.
  • v_ironmanv_ironman Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    Great work aesthetocyst, I am feeling guilty of hitting you so many times in pvp icon_e_wink.gif , but I promise that if I see you with many points I wait a few minutes for avoid sniping, are you in any shield line chat ?
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,362 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am really annoyed about this stealh change in match damage, I think it is completely dumb that 4s match damage jump like it does when they reach level 200, completely stupid.

    Let's just break a game mechanic just to nerf Winfinite...
  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    Final thoughts for now ....

    1. After R91 hit, all we could see was the immediate impact to the 3*s and 4* that we had, we had no visibility on champ stats.

    2. Based on that limited glimpse, it looked like both 3s and 4s had lost out, like they now flatlined at the top, which was in the long-term worse than the boost they got at lower levels, and ....

    3. ... the bigger boost to 4*s was a pain in the butt, upsetting the tanking scheme we were all used to.

    BUT...

    4. On the whole, 3*s and 4*s are, overall, big winners. Stronger at lower levels, and significantly stronger above lvl 275. Helps keep those buffed 3*s relevant, and gives champed/buffed 4*s a chance to close the gap with 5*s.

    5. The trends from lvl 166 to 270, initially looked so bizarre, serves to set up a much more logical match damage hierarchy than what came before.

    For my part, I think the devs did a great job with these match damage tweaks. Just wish the big picture had been more obvious.

    now if we could get some word as to what exactly is wrong with level buffs, and how that will be fixed....

    q1g68.jpg

    .

    Thank you for your work icon_e_biggrin.gif. You deserve some rewards for this icon_e_smile.gif

    I have a question about the charts. Are the tile match damage tied with the ability numbers ? Meaning that the ability numbers will increase on the same curve of the match damage? Meaning that the ability numbers will also grow faster, but stall at the last levels ?

    Because if so, technically you would have full power for a 3-star at level 200-210... so you could stop championing him if you don't want to. And on the same note, you would have full power (without championing) on a 4 star at the same range, meaning that if you don't have plans to champion him you could stop right there and he would be the same power of a max 4 star (without championing) Am I right? level 210 4-star (no buff) = 270 4-star (no buff) ?
    can you clarify this for me please? icon_e_smile.gif
  • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    4. On the whole, 3*s and 4*s are, overall, big winners. Stronger at lower levels, and significantly stronger above lvl 275.

    I dunno if it was because of the supposed bug, but my Doom level 289 (bizarrely, a maxed, PVP featured 3* no longer boosts to 290 but to 286) was not "significantly stronger". Diabolic Plot's Trap tiles were 25% weaker than pre-R91 270 Doom.
  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    This thread and those charts are entirely concerned with match damage. Did not look at any other stat. Did not look at health, abilities, sellback, anything. I was interested solely in the changes to the match damage curves, to understand what the devs had done, and how it affected tanking.

    Thanks for the clarification.
    But ability stats ... each character would have their own progression. I would guess they would continue to increase, generally speaking. No real reason for them to be slavishly tied to the match damage curves I can think of. The few characters whose ability stats I have paid attention to as I championed them from 166 into the 180s have seen stat increases.

    Perhaps you could start a similar project tracking the stats of a few selected abilities?

    I will take a look on what I have at the moment. Will come back when I have relevant results icon_e_smile.gif
  • atomzedatomzed Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    Updated OP per some additional data, see "Green EDIT" dated today.
    I think you deserve a hall of fame award for your work!
  • PeterGibbons316PeterGibbons316 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,063
    Damn. What is the R² value for that 4* poly?
  • PeterGibbons316PeterGibbons316 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,063
    I imagine they probably didn't use a 5th degree polynomial as the formula. I think different formulas for under/over level....250 or so? could be a possibility.
  • PeterGibbons316PeterGibbons316 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,063
    It does (so far....) resemble 2 half-parabolas pastiched together in the middle ... and the middle being at lvl 270, damage 83.
    This seems pretty likely to be what they did. Can you pull the data apart at level 270 and fit a parabola to both sides and run the R² of those??? Maybe pull out a group of levels where it flattens (250-290 maybe?) to get a better fit?
  • For the data above 270, it looks to me like a linear progression with some soft blending near the 270 transition. We do that kind of modeling all the time with transistors, and the blending function is normally an exponential weighting factor that forces the original function (whatever its shape) to 0 and the new function to 1.

    You could plot a linear asymptote and see if it fits better than your high-order poly above 270 (except near the corner, of course).
  • stochasticismstochasticism Posts: 1,181 Chairperson of the Boards
    I imagine they probably didn't use a 5th degree polynomial as the formula. I think different formulas for under/over level....250 or so? could be a possibility.

    Agreed. I'd love to see what kind of fit a natural spline gives. Vary the number of knots from 2-5 and see if you can find the number of piecewise components to the function.
  • JVRealJVReal Posts: 1,884 Chairperson of the Boards
    Aes, I have some preR91 and PostR91 stats in my sig roster (google doc) if it'll help you at all. I know it's just a snapshot, but maybe they could throw a few more items into your data set?
  • I, for one, would love the csv data to accurately populate my team-building spreadsheet. I doubt I'll seriously play with curve fitting, but appreciate all the effort!

    Only question is: in light of the "tell us what we changed" thread, do you think there will be more updates to match damage, or do you just thing they're looking for power damage tweaks?
  • xellessanovaxellessanova Age Unconfirmed Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    Thank you! This is amazing.

    Do you know if there's a difference in the way health scales past max level? Is that the same or does it fit a different power curve now?
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