Championing. Worth the ISO? Seems to be!

Dragon_NexusDragon_Nexus Posts: 3,689 Chairperson of the Boards
edited March 2016 in MPQ Character Discussion
A concern was that you'd sink more ISO into championing a character than you would be simply selling the covers and using the ISO for something else.

Looking at OBW and ignoring all of the non-ISO rewards there are
22x 250 ISO rewards. 5500 ISO
4x 500 ISO rewards. 2000 ISO
10x 1000 ISO rewards. 10,000 ISO

This makes a total of 17,500 ISO

50x 250 ISO is 12,500 ISO, plus the 5000 ISO fee makes 17,500. So you break even.

However, in there is a load of HP, CP, covers and tokens that you get for free. So you don't lose out. You get your investment back.

3* ISO
44x 500 ISO rewards. 22,000 ISO
14x 1000 ISO rewards. 14,000 ISO
10x 1500 ISO rewards. 15,000 ISO
2x 2000 ISO rewards. 4,000 ISO
1x 2500 ISO reward. 2,500 ISO

This makes a total of 57,500 ISO

100x 500 ISO is 50,000 ISO, plus the 7500 ISO fee makes 57,500. So you break even again.

And once more you get HP, legendary tokens, 4* covers and more for free.

I hadn't seen anyone else do the maths on this. I can't imagine I'm the first, but I've made a topic dedicated to it anyway. It's a long term investment, if you want to look at it that way, but you don't lose out as many (myself included) feared you would. I figured you'd spend, say, 50k in cover ISO to get only 40k back plus some extra stuff, but you break even in both 2* and 3* land. I'm not advanced enough to calculate 4* land yet, but I can't imagine it's any different.

[Edit for 5*]
5* totals

25 Legendary Tokens
625 CP
20,000 HP
220,000 ISO-8

Looks like a net loss of 5k ISO. Initial champion cost of 25k and each cover is worth 2k.

Rewards repeat in this order: Legendary Token, ISO, 25 CP, HP.

ISO rewards: 5×5k, 10×8k, 8×10k, 15k, 20k

HP rewards: 12×250, 6×500, 4×1k, 2×2.5k, 1×5k
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Comments

  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    4*:

    4000 HP, 250CP, 11 Legendary tokens, 117.5k iso.

    So actually net positive on Iso, I think. I added it while really tired last night, but it's no worse than break even.
  • OneLastGambitOneLastGambit Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    You might be iso neutral from championing a character but they way I see it you're game positive because you then get to add lots of levels to a character making them better - for free! and as you say you get tons of other prizes for free too including tokens to make your transition into the next tier (if you are a transitioner).
  • OrionOrion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
    You might be iso neutral from championing a character but they way I see it you're game positive because you then get to add lots of levels to a character making them better - for free! and as you say you get tons of other prizes for free too including tokens to make your transition into the next tier (if you are a transitioner).

    Not only tokens, but straight covers of the next higher tier. It will be nice to get Hulkbuster covers for championing 3* heroes.

    You get a Legendary token for the first champion level of a 3* or 4* hero. That's worth the champion fee right there.
  • squirrel1120squirrel1120 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 492
    You might be iso neutral from championing a character but they way I see it you're game positive because you then get to add lots of levels to a character making them better - for free! and as you say you get tons of other prizes for free too including tokens to make your transition into the next tier (if you are a transitioner).


    I agree with this, mostly, including 'breaking into the next tier'. Still, If you are a tier behind (as I am), then you'll likely always be a tier behind. This doesn't change the moving goal posts (exacerbates it really, if you don't champion as fast as the field of players you fall further behind despite any forward progress), doesn't change the starvation of iso, and thus doesn't really change anything for most players who are fighting a tier above themselves trying 'break into the next tier'.

    'Getting there' really only has two possible routes. You either place really high in pve and as high as your roster will allow in pvp for a year at a time, or you spend massive amounts of money.

    Overall it looks like a fun new feature. Fun being the key word there, and I almost think the release point of this could have been switched with 5*'s for the health of the game. I guess at minimum there will at least be 'something to do' in between the slow acquisition of needed 4* covers, and something that will actually help with it some as well.
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    One thing to consider due to expiration date on covers: if you have rare covers (i.e. 4 stars) that will expire soon, do not champion your 2 or 3 stars first. While you at least break even or more through championing, you don't actually see that return until near the end. So seeing as how you won't get 100 3 star covers for a specific character in the next week, focus first on leveling up your best 4 stars if you pull extra covers for them.
  • Dragon_NexusDragon_Nexus Posts: 3,689 Chairperson of the Boards
    I guess at minimum there will at least be 'something to do' in between the slow acquisition of needed 4* covers, and something that will actually help with it some as well.

    This is the main draw factor for me. I was nearing the end of my 3* roster, Quicksilver's at 130 and that's it, everyone else is done. The game felt like it was going to hit a brick wall while I did PvP getting one 4* cover every 3 days.

    Now I've got a goal and a way of making progress! It might be artificial progress but I actually looked forward to finishing work and playing this game. I haven't felt that in *months*.
  • ProfessorGumbyProfessorGumby Age Unconfirmed Posts: 132 Tile Toppler
    notamutant wrote:
    One thing to consider due to expiration date on covers: if you have rare covers (i.e. 4 stars) that will expire soon, do not champion your 2 or 3 stars first. While you at least break even or more through championing, you don't actually see that return until near the end. So seeing as how you won't get 100 3 star covers for a specific character in the next week, focus first on leveling up your best 4 stars if you pull extra covers for them.

    This is similar to the approach I'm taking. I started out by championing the 3 star characters that had covers expiring in the next 24 hours. After applying all the related covers to those, I went and opened the LTs I received for each.

    All those LTs gave me 4* covers I needed. So, I applied each of those and put ISO into them to get them to their cap.

    And, as I've gotten 2* covers from drops or tokens, I've gone ahead and started on them, as they will eventually create more 3* covers for the process.

    Repeat the process the next day with the next set of expiring covers.

    Eventually I expect that I will hit a wall on ISO, at which point I will revert to hoarding tokens, but will still continue to apply covers to existing champions to generate additional ISO/HP/cover rewards.

    I do also expect that some covers in my queue will need to be sold for ISO directly (I'm looking at you Quicksilver and IW)... as the current ISO cost to get them to max level isn't worth the opportunity cost of that ISO on other possible champions.

    Cheers!
    - PG
  • DrLemniscateDrLemniscate Age Unconfirmed Posts: 55 Match Maker
    5* totals

    25 Legendary Tokens
    625 CP
    20,000 HP
    220,000 ISO-8

    Looks like a net loss of 5k ISO. Initial champion cost of 25k and each cover is worth 2k.

    Rewards repeat in this order: Legendary Token, ISO, 25 CP, HP.

    ISO rewards: 5×5k, 10×8k, 8×10k, 15k, 20k

    HP rewards: 12×250, 6×500, 4×1k, 2×2.5k, 1×5k
  • ProfessorGumbyProfessorGumby Age Unconfirmed Posts: 132 Tile Toppler
    I do also expect that some covers in my queue will need to be sold for ISO directly (I'm looking at you Quicksilver and IW)... as the current ISO cost to get them to max level isn't worth the opportunity cost of that ISO on other possible champions.

    On second thought... since CS is able to "split" duplicate characters back into individual covers... I'll likely create duplicates for those and hold on to them until I'm ready to champion them.

    Hmmm... well... I've got 7 days and 4... now 3 minutes to make that decision.

    Cheers!
    - PG
  • atomzedatomzed Posts: 1,461 Chairperson of the Boards
    I do also expect that some covers in my queue will need to be sold for ISO directly (I'm looking at you Quicksilver and IW)... as the current ISO cost to get them to max level isn't worth the opportunity cost of that ISO on other possible champions.

    On second thought... since CS is able to "split" duplicate characters back into individual covers... I'll likely create duplicates for those and hold on to them until I'm ready to champion them.

    Hmmm... well... I've got 7 days and 4... now 3 minutes to make that decision.

    Cheers!
    - PG

    Don't bet on them doing it forever... it might be a once off transitional waiver.
  • Dragon_NexusDragon_Nexus Posts: 3,689 Chairperson of the Boards
    4*:

    4000 HP, 250CP, 11 Legendary tokens, 117.5k iso.

    So actually net positive on Iso, I think. I added it while really tired last night, but it's no worse than break even.

    Anyone able to confirm this? I'll add it to the main post, if it's correct =)
  • Black DukeBlack Duke Posts: 676 Critical Contributor
    Do you guys think that it is usefull to champion maxed 2*characters? I`m asking because I`m thinking of championing my OBW (she`s my favourite character for DDQ).
  • CrowlCrowl Posts: 1,504 Chairperson of the Boards
    Black Duke wrote:
    Do you guys think that it is usefull to champion maxed 2*characters? I`m asking because I`m thinking of championing my OBW (she`s my favourite character for DDQ).

    It is definitely worth it for any character that is already maxed, overall it doesn't cost you any iso, you get a stronger character (and this is one you even use regularly) and you get the additional covers, tokens, hp and cp too.
  • Monged4lifeMonged4life Age Unconfirmed Posts: 420
    Even if it wasn't worth the iso (which in my opinion it is), I would still champion everyone I can because it's made 2* covers relevant again!!!

    I can't describe how good it feels to no longer feel that pang of disappointment when every cover pack gives you a 2*. Now it's not a bad thing anymore!!!!

    Best change to the game since I started playing it a year ago.
  • zodiac339zodiac339 Posts: 1,927 Chairperson of the Boards
    Even if it wasn't worth the iso (which in my opinion it is), I would still champion everyone I can because it's made 2* covers relevant again!!!

    I can't describe how good it feels to no longer feel that pang of disappointment when every cover pack gives you a 2*. Now it's not a bad thing anymore!!!!

    Best change to the game since I started playing it a year ago.
    Unfortunately, the relevance is hampered by the level disparity growing even wider. 2 star can go to 144, while 3 star will go 266. I have no idea why they included the epics in the champion thing. They don't need to get stronger. Still, championed 144 heroes should be able to handle non-champion 166 heroes more readily.
  • Black DukeBlack Duke Posts: 676 Critical Contributor
    Crowl wrote:
    Black Duke wrote:
    Do you guys think that it is usefull to champion maxed 2*characters? I`m asking because I`m thinking of championing my OBW (she`s my favourite character for DDQ).

    It is definitely worth it for any character that is already maxed, overall it doesn't cost you any iso, you get a stronger character (and this is one you even use regularly) and you get the additional covers, tokens, hp and cp too.
    Thanks for the advice! I have just championed my 2*-Human Torch and got icon_blackpanther.png yellowflag.png for the Heroic Token.
    It seems definitely to be worth. icon_e_wink.gif
  • if you have a spare roster slot, how much would you lose and gain in total if you take a new 2 star only for the 3 star cover rewards and the HP from championing?
    I m also not sure how much ISO it costs for level 1? 20? (where do 2 stars start?) to 94
  • jobobjobob Age Unconfirmed Posts: 664 Critical Contributor
    It's impossible (or at least very difficult) to come up with a single value for the rewards other than the ISO, because it's going to be different from player to player based on needs, how you spend the CP/HP, and the luck of the draw.

    But, I attempted to assign some sort of ISO value to the 2* rewards just to see...

    Here's what I used:

    3* Cover = 500 ISO (based on sell price... obviously worth a bit more if you are feeding it into a champion or if you need that cover)

    Heroic Token = 343 ISO (based on probability of getting a 4*, 3*, or 2* and their sellprices) = 1000 ISO x 4.4% + 500 ISO x 24.0% + 250 ISO x 71.5%

    1 CP = 40 ISO (based on sell price) = 1000 ISO / 25 CP per Legendary

    100 HP = 343 ISO (based on cost of Heroic Token if you buy one at the sale price... but there are so many ways HP can be used- 10 packs, 40 packs, Health packs, covers, etc- that this one is really tough to calculate)

    So for a 2*, all that adds up to an extra ISO value of 4,273 above the "break even" ISO awarded along the way. And, like I said, it could be worth more or less depending on your needs and the luck of the draw.

    This is, of course, on top of the fact that you are getting a stronger character, and that you have something to do with the tokens and something else to work toward.

    ...So having done the math, I would say that on top of what we already know (that the champion fee is worth it), I think spending an additional 5,000 ISO to get to max is probably closer to the actual "break even" point. I'm not sure what level you are when you are 5k away... probably around 90 - 91. However, when I factor in the stronger character, the luck of the draw, and the feeling of making 2* covers relevant again, I wouldn't hesitate to spend 10k ISO to get a character to max, plus another 5k to champion. The numbers might not support that much, but it's worth it to me for the added enjoyment.
  • jobobjobob Age Unconfirmed Posts: 664 Critical Contributor
    Frasaria wrote:
    if you have a spare roster slot, how much would you lose and gain in total if you take a new 2 star only for the 3 star cover rewards and the HP from championing?
    I m also not sure how much ISO it costs for level 1? 20? (where do 2 stars start?) to 94
    No... definitely NOT worth it. Taking a 2* to champion from scratch is around 75k in ISO.

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    CHAMP 5000
  • Well, you didn't factor in the opportunity cost. Using ISO on Champion mean less ISO to level the character you actually use.
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