Tactics - How should we spend our ISO?

babinro

The importance of intelligent ISO spending is at an all time high with the upcoming release of the Champion feature.

There's no way to realistically keep up with the costs of leveling while remaining free to play. Spending money to keep up with leveling is beyond prohibitive because the value of ISO in the storefront hasn't changed to reflect the greater demands of ISO over the last two years. It's price point was set in stone long before 4*'s were common...let alone 5*'s existing with 4*'s being released twice a month (and sometimes more).

Fact:Championing characters and leveling them through the cover system comes at a SIGNIFICANT ISO cost
According to the January video you'll eventually get 35,000 ISO back from leveling 4* Hulkbuster 100 levels.
That's an initial ISO cost of 12,500 to champion HB plus 100 HB covers valued at 1000 ISO each for a total of 100,000 ISO.

35,000 - 12,500 - 100,000 = (77,500)
Therefore, the 'cost' of championing a single 4* is ultimately 77,500 ISO.

It's safe to assume that this trend holds true at 2*, 3* and 5* tiers as well with the numbers being scaled according to those tiers. Choosing to champion means sacrificing a large portion of the ISO you relied on through regular play. With that being understood it's important to ask...

Edit: My numbers here are clearly wrong as others have pointed out which could easily change how people decide to approach the subject matter at hand. The current thought is that you actually get back 90,000 ISO rather than just 35,000. Which means the 'cost' of championing is only 22,500 ultimately. Still a net loss but a far more reasonable one considering the benefits.

HOW SHOULD WE SPEND OUR ISO?

Should we:

A) Focus on what will help you NOW.
Do you have a level 220 HB, Iceman, Red Hulk, Cyke, Jean Grey? Level them.
They'll help you more in the coming months then any amount of championed 2*'s, 3*'s or non-top tier 4*'s. Only after you get all the vital characters leveled for your chosen modes of play should you focus on the new feature. Jeanbuster is max level so you should now champion them to further improve what already works for you today.
After all, you'll be actively using HB and Jean to win, right? So why bother having Cmag at level 193 and Nick Fury at level 305?

Champion ASAP
Championing a character comes with several benefits in terms of level, health, HP, CP, Tokens and some ISO. The combination of these rewards are clearly superior to the current ISO bottleneck players are facing. Best to champion all characters ASAP in accordance to which ones will benefit the most. IE) Focus on 2*'s, pvp rewarded 3*'s and maybe the occasional 4* when you can spare it. Sure you won't be using 2* daken anymore but the faster you max out his champion the more rewards you'll get and the faster you can start selling 2* covers for genuine ISO again. Sacrifice the short term for the long term. Even if it means you won't have the ISO to level powerful characters for a LONG time.

C) Champion Tactically
Gradually champion a couple key characters who prove to be helpful in play from time to time. For example you might not use Luke Cage or Cmags all the time but when they are boosted they are genuinely good. So tactically champion them upon getting a couple of their covers. By limiting your champions to say eight 3*'s and four 4*'s you can better control your ISO spending and actually level good characters as you get their covers (albeit very slowly).

D) Ignore Championing Completely
One could argue the old best strategy was to level characters to the point where diminishing returns became punishing. So many of us have 3*'s at level 120ish and 4*'s between level 180-220 range. Why fix what isn't broken? Forget championing exists and continue to build a balanced roster with all new and old releases. If you happen to get the ISO to max someone you might champion them as well. This won't be common though and you'll clearly fall FAR behind anyone whose giving this new feature attention.

E) Other
Is it actually best to do a combination of the above? Something completely different?

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I'm at a genuine loss here and would love to hear the opinions of others.
I'm leaning towards option A) but I see value in and C). I don't feel D) is best but maybe that's just me. It takes a lot of time and commitment to level a 4* to champion range so I'd rather not spend my resources poorly with this new feature. I can only assume plenty of others players are in the same boat.

Lets here from the playerbase...how should we best spend our precious ISO?

Orti

I'm deep in the 3* territory and I need to make this decision as well. Since iso is short I will focus in championing characters I have already maxed (20 3*s) and have spare covers for (12 of them = 90k iso). I will only start championing my 4 2*s after that.

Next step will be to champion everyone I already maxed in 3* tier to leverage the ddq covers. Since I currently have 8 cover maxed characters sitting at level 153 they will likely be next in order of their pvps.

4* transition (start leveling them) will be pushed out significantly by championing but I'm actually quite happy about that as 4* gameplay seems to be limited to hb/jg/rulk/bobby anyway

Quebbster

I'm at a bit of a loss too. I have several four-stars I want to level up and champion, but those ISO costs...
I'm thinking I may champion my maxed two-stars immediately as their covers should come in at a fast pace, so it should be a fairly fast ROI. The three-stars are a lot more slow, so they may have to wait until I am happy with my four-star situation...

Pongie

This is an interesting dilemma. I just recently got imhb max covered and levelled to 230. My iceman will be maxed covered after the rewards comes though today but he is only level 130. With 80k ISO, I could champion my 2*/3* that I have saved covers for, but doing so means my 4* stay under levelled. With the rate I'm getting 4* covers now, I may not be able to level many of them anyway. I guess the best approach is to champion my 2*/3* as I get covers for them.

CNash

Were people really so reliant on selling covers for ISO? I would argue that if you're regularly selling 4* covers, you're playing on a much higher level than most of the userbase, and so your priorities will be very different.

Take me, for example. I have roughly 1/3 of all 3* characters maxed and thus am a "4* transitioner". I'm slowly maxing out 3*s in order to gain the advantage of a deep roster for PVE events, which will - in theory - allow me to obtain 4* covers more easily. My ISO spending pattern is largely based on income from DDQ and PVE node rewards. I rarely sell 3* covers and never sell 4* covers (as they're all usable to me).

Therefore my championing strategy is: champion all of my maxed characters as fast as possible, so as to minimize the necessity of selling unneeded 2* and 3* covers. Once this is done, continue leveling up 3* and 4* characters as before, and once maxed, champion them immediately (treating championing as the "final level", so to speak). Once this is done, my ISO investment in that character has ended.

If you want to treat adding a cover to a championed character as a monetary transaction in ISO, then each level for a 3* "costs" 500 ISO. This is much cheaper than the 2500 ISO required for each level at the top end of the curve. If Demiurge had simply raised the level cap, ISO costs would've gone through the roof. This approach is therefore preferable.

Finally, for those who balk at the initial ISO outlay: you are earning 3700 ISO from DDQ alone, every day. That's 25900 a week. Even if that's all you receive, you can champion three 3*s or two 4*s each week.

Monged4life

I'd answer keep saving iso for this week and wait until all the current changes everyone are exploding about happen and we know ALL the information. The devs tactic of spoonfeeding us one line of a change at a time is perfect for tricking you into making very ill-informed choices out of fear.

Save your iso then we'll all be able to better advise next week once Championing is here.

Spencer75

Will definitely be championing any maxed characters I have as I acquire their covers (Fury, IMHB, 20+ 3 stars, OBW, Ares, Classic Storm)

That's a pretty easy decision.

The tougher decision, which will be on a case by case basis, is whether or not to max other characters so they can be championed. I'm at about 57k in iso right now which will be poured into championing expiring covers. So I'm a little iso poor. Right now that'll champion my 2 maxed 4 stars, 4 3 stars and my 2 stars.

Do I bring antman from 220 to 270 so he can be championed? Probably not, at least now. That's too much iso.

Do I bring xforce from 257 to 270? Yeah, why not.

Thing from 250? Yeah

What about captain marvel at 150? Maybe. Doom at 135? No.

In the end my decisions will be made by how much iso I have and what covers are expiring.

Pylgrim

According to the information collected in this thread and educated guesses, you get 90k Iso back from max-championing a 4*. That means only a 10k "loss" of Iso or 22,5k if you count the championing fee. Not bad for all the stuff you get in exchange.

Anyway, my plan is to champion my many maxed 2* and 3*s and maybe max those 38s that are hovering at 150 or above. A week+ of saving has left me with 80k Iso which should be enough to champion most of the characters with covers waiting to be used. Then I keep levelling up those 4*s with enough covers to be useful as I've been doing all this time.

Punisher5784

My plan is to champion my 2*'s, I have roughly 300 standard tokens that will be put to good use. Plus I have missed using OBW! Remember, you'll quickly fully champion 2*'s to lvl 144 within 1-2 months easily. They will finally be useful again, outside of essentials and DDQ.

I'll also champion my lvl 166 3*'s from the covers I win from DDQ. At this point I am simply championing anyone who is maxed. I have no plan to bring my lvl 120 3*'s to 166 simply to champion them because they still will not going to be much better. Sure I love a buffed Psylocke but bringing her from lvl 115 to 166 is about 100k Iso, so it's not worth it.

The devs said championing would breathe new life into old favorites.. it definitely will for 2*'s but it's still not going to change most players from leveling lower tiered 3*'s to 166.. I do not foresee players running around with lvl 200 championed QS or Spidey. With that said, hopefully a buff to older or unused 3*'s is next on their agenda.

Pessi

I'm in a tight spot - I have two options.

I have 28 3 stars at lvl 140, and around 130k ISO. I could max 2, champion and use covers (I have multiple covers waiting for Daken, cyclops, gamora, doom, loki, and groot). I was waiting to max 3 but this patch throws a spanner in the works.

Or I could champion all my 2 stars (currently 9) and use multiple covers stored for them - and see what I have left which may be enough to champion one 3 star.

I presume the best is to do the latter, and gain the rewards from the championed 2 stars, but not knowing what these rewards are really hinders my want to do this. What if I get multiple covers for some fully covered 3 stars?

Right now its not a clear cut easy solution. I'd love to see a chart of championed rewards so I can decide. If I were to champion the three stars I may lose out on all the covers for the 2 stars and ultimately the leveling rewards they would give.

What we as a community needed from D3 is a list of rewards before this change hits - so its not guesswork or luck. For example, champion groot. Are the 4 star rewards going to be star lord? If so, it wouldnt be a priority. If daken is 4* wolv? what colours?

lukewin

I've done a combo of everything. Everyone's decision should take into account what they want out of the game, and they should make their choices based on that. I want to hit 1k to get the 4* cover and do well in PVE to get multiple new 4* covers. Since ISO is the bottleneck, I like to get the most value out of my ISO. I'm happy with my roster that's deep and diverse, but includes 0 maxed 4* or 3*. My roster helps me accomplish my goals. 18 lvl 200 4*, 4 lvl 160 4*, 40 lvl 140 3*, multiple dupes lvl 120 and lower. I'd rather have 2 140 3* of the same character than 1 179 3* Champion. It'd be cheaper in ISO to do the former, and save me healthpacks in PVE/PVP.

I've got over 70 3* covers for over 30 characters that will expire. And 2 weeks ago, I probably had the same amount that would've expired had I not sold them for ISO, and in 2 weeks, I'll probably have the same amount to sell as well. The covers come and go, and when/if I do champion those 3*, the covers will come and go then as well.

I will champion all 8 of my 2*. I might roster the 2* I don't have, and champion them as well. If they allow duplicate Champions, I might do some 2* farming for characters I wouldn't mind having dupes of (Ares, OBW, Storm) before I champion any 3*.

I had about 200k ISO banked. That'd be enough to max 3 3* to Champion them. My 160 Iceman was 4/2/2. I finished 2nd in DA Heroic by 107 pts, because I fell asleep during grindtime . Could've easily finished 1st if I'd stayed awake. I didn't even touch the Magneto Essential in grindtime, which would've gave me over 600 pts. After I added the 2 covers, I took my 5/3/2 Iceman to 200 for 70k ISO with no hesitation. When I get the last 3 covers, it'll still cost me 241k ISO to max him.

I will still continue to play like I've always done. I'll use the Champion system as it becomes justifiable to me, to use the ISO to use it. First 2* to try out if I like it enough, to aim to max my 3* to use it. Since they're not going to stop releasing characters, I'll continue how I've always done, and miss out on maxing anyone in favor of having everyone at usable levels.

Tatercat

I'm going to keep spending my ISO like I have been doing, on the 4* roster I've slowly been building up. Last night I finally got enough covers that I could raise four 4*'s as a group above the 200 lvl, to 209 (the highest common lvl they all could reach, so I spent the 130K ISO that I had banked on that. That's where I'll continue to spend my ISO, with the exception of buying respec ability for a select few 2* or 3*'s that might need it. (Even then, only OBW and Luke Cage come to mind that I might want to do that to)

Other than that i don't see myself going back and dumping ISO on 2* or 3* star characters I never use anyway. I've got 20 maxed 3*'s and 5 maxed 2*'s that I use regularly. Even if I did level up the ones I only have for essential nodes and DDQ days, would I really use them over the current ones I have? Whatever covers I get regularly for them everyday in normal events and DDQ will be used for champions, all the rest, including duplicate 4* covers, will just be turned to ISO. And I'm not going to be "aiming" for specific 2 or 3*'s in events like Lightening Rounds, so for now, I don't see a huge change in my current strategy. We'll see though after it goes live, maybe week or so with the new rewards might change my mind. There's always SOMETHING that never becomes apparent until people started playing it for a day or so.

fmftint

lukewin wrote:

My roster helps me accomplish my goals. 18 lvl 200 4*, 4 lvl 160 4*, 40 lvl 140 3*, multiple dupes lvl 120 and lower. I'd rather have 2 140 3* of the same character than 1 179 3* Champion. It'd be cheaper in ISO to do the former, and save me healthpacks in PVE/PVP.

You do realize that most of your roster will fall into the mid level, got weaker range, of this update. Your entire roster will be weaker (do less damage) once the update goes live than they are right now.

3 and 4-Star Hero powers have been adjusted. Powers are stronger at lower levels, slightly weaker at medium levels and unchanged at Max Level.

GrumpySmurf1002

As others said, I'm pretty confident you're grossly underestimating the iso return from the 100 levels of 4* It's probably not exactly 90k like I projected, but it should be significantly more than 35k. I don't believe the net loss will be more than 20k or so, obviously offset by getting more CP/Tokens/HP.

As far as how to invest Iso, my plan is going to be to champion immediately any character that I have queued extra covers for, that are already maxed or near maxed (within 10 levels): IMHB, Cage, Panther, Daken, Doom, 3Deadpool, Blade, Ares, OBW, 2Storm, 2Wolvie. (should be 75k iso to champion them all)

On the 2* I have a multitude of covers (at least 10+, maybe 20+ on Wolvie/OBW) already, so my hope is to recoup that initial champion cost quickly, or at least a chunk of it.

After that, I think the strategy goes back to normal. For the 3* + Carnage I already have maxed, I'll champion as I pull their covers. For 3* not maxed and not close, I'll keep selling their covers. I'll sell the 6 Elektras I have stashed rather than take her from 71 -> 270.

So I guess that puts me in some hybrid of & C)

It is part of what I really like about this change, the depth added to roster building is really good, yet simply executed.

lukewin

fmftint wrote:

lukewin wrote:

My roster helps me accomplish my goals. 18 lvl 200 4*, 4 lvl 160 4*, 40 lvl 140 3*, multiple dupes lvl 120 and lower. I'd rather have 2 140 3* of the same character than 1 179 3* Champion. It'd be cheaper in ISO to do the former, and save me healthpacks in PVE/PVP.

You do realize that most of your roster will fall into the mid level, got weaker range, of this update. Your entire roster will be weaker (do less damage) once the update goes live than they are right now.

3 and 4-Star Hero powers have been adjusted. Powers are stronger at lower levels, slightly weaker at medium levels and unchanged at Max Level.

As long as I can still hit 1k in pvp and do well in pve, I'm OK with the balancing change. Plus, it isn't certain what they consider medium levels. 3* start at 40 and go to 166, 140 is closer to 166 than the middle, which would be 103.

Unknown

babinro wrote:

Fact:Championing characters and leveling them through the cover system comes at a SIGNIFICANT ISO cost
According to the January video you'll eventually get 35,000 ISO back from leveling 4* Hulkbuster 100 levels.
That's an initial ISO cost of 12,500 to champion HB plus 100 HB covers valued at 1000 ISO each for a total of 100,000 ISO.

35,000 - 12,500 - 100,000 = (77,500)
Therefore, the 'cost' of championing a single 4* is ultimately 77,500 ISO.

The way that I view this though is that although yes you would of got 1000 ISO for selling the cover, this calculation doesn't factor in the value of the champion actually going up a level. Yes by only one level but if they had just upped the level cap, imagine how much iso it would cost to level up ( I cant even guess the answer as i havent got any 4 's higher than 156 )

Tatercat

fmftint wrote:

lukewin wrote:

My roster helps me accomplish my goals. 18 lvl 200 4*, 4 lvl 160 4*, 40 lvl 140 3*, multiple dupes lvl 120 and lower. I'd rather have 2 140 3* of the same character than 1 179 3* Champion. It'd be cheaper in ISO to do the former, and save me healthpacks in PVE/PVP.

You do realize that most of your roster will fall into the mid level, got weaker range, of this update. Your entire roster will be weaker (do less damage) once the update goes live than they are right now.

3 and 4-Star Hero powers have been adjusted. Powers are stronger at lower levels, slightly weaker at medium levels and unchanged at Max Level.

That is exactly why I dumped my ISO on my four 4*'s to get them to 209. I hope 77% of their max level at least gets them considered "upper" level. (pretty please?) It will put me behind a few days on building up enough ISO to really start championing my 2-3* roster, but I've always been on the slow road in this game anyway.

mpqr7

I will champion all my max leveled characters. I figure the time is now to stop selling repeat covers and get some decent rewards for them instead. Eventually I'll have championed them all, then I'll go back to spending ISO to max out my 4*s. Right now, I don't really have any 4*s that desperately need to be leveled up, so it'll happen when it happens. With my current roster, I score high enough in pvp, so everything is fine.

bpcontra

I think a combination of A and B. I think you champion your 2* first. Because covers are easy to obtain, so are the rewards. You then use the 2* rewards to champion your 3* in whatever order you gain the extra covers and continue to use your standard iso, ie. From Deadpool daily, to level your 3 and 4* useful characters.

I think championing the 2* first as a means of progressively championing your 3* is the way to go. I'm not championing my 3* as a way to compete with 4*....I'm championing for the rewards to help me obtain 4*

TadPrime

I'm still early in 3* land (My 3 highest 3* are in the 130s and I have almost all 2* fully covered (bag boy only has 3 covers) and 5 of them maxed because I like a bit of variety) so as I see it my path is pretty straight-forward: champ those 5 first (and I have the ISO for 4 of them already), burn my paltry stock of tokens (usually burn them when I am looking Health packs) and then focus on getting the ones I have the most covers for to cap so I can champ as many of them as possible before the covers expire and I have to sell them.

One thing I am kinda hoping for is that there is some consideration given to extraneous covers beyond the 5th of a given color before you get the character to max. Maybe something along the lines of you can "train" the character in that color to get an ISO infusion directly to that char of a bit more than the normal sell cost (like a 50% bonus or something).

TxMoose

I guess C. I dumped iso into maxing loki, hood and torch - all of which I have covers from my tokens I opened yesterday and from previous event stuff (for torch). luckily my dupe hood and loki are fully covered and can still be fully used in pve. the next one that hits is kk and I have a week on her. I'm champing all my 2* and 3* (will start with the first 3 and then work on the other 6-8 I have maxed) as they come in. after my champing is done, I'm focusing on my 4*s - will take jeanbuster from 250 to 270. will take some time but not too long. hopefully no covers come in for them before then - got lucky that none hit in yesterday's token spree. then will start the long and arduous trudge of taking iceman from 131 to 270. by then, so much will have changed, no sense in planning that far ahead lol.