D3's policy on compensation

LegendReborn

Screw compensation. I think that anyone who utilized the exploit within a systematic manner (IE consistently over time rather than maybe a one off occurrence that could possibly be an accident) at any point in their account's history should be sandboxed or deleted. I don't need to be compensated. Anyone who cheated needs to be removed from the game, regardless if the cheating took place a year ago.

GurlBYE

Helen keller wrote:

I don't understand the logic/stance D3 takes on compensation, I find it infuriating, maybe my logic is flawed so I'll try to keep an open mind.

For example, on the topic of the ongoing "LT tokengate" I find this statement ridiculous when asked if compensation is being considered for those who dumped money chasing the cheaters that were abusing the exploit the devs were aware of for years and ignored:

"Due to this issue being widespread we are unable to offer compensation at an individual level, it would be unfair to credit one player without crediting all players affected by the issue, therefore if there is to be compensation it will be en mass..."

How do you figure it would be unfair? The majority of players never give you a penny, some a bit here and there, they aren't your paycheck, they dont pay your mortgage, it is a small percentage of us that spend hundreds, some of us thousands, what's unfair are the "whales" being compensated the same as a someone who has never given you a dime.

If you can track the ignored exploit, you can track spending.

You provided an uneven playing field for years, ignored it, presented it as legit, and accepted money from us, it's not only unfair, it's unethical

It seems like you think the exploit and spending money on the game are mutually exclusive.

The exploit had the greatest benefit to those willing to spend money.

Helen keller

BearVenger wrote:

Helen keller wrote:

I apologize that I have not figured out how to quote other posts so I will have to just direct it to the member

Slidecage:
I think I may be owed something because I purchased a product that was knowingly misrepresented by the producer, great lengths are taken on this forum to convince us of the fairness and randomness of pulls

I would be happy to return all my covers and be given a full refund? Is this an option? I'm game and I bet others would be.

Petergibbons:
Maybe my brackets are much different than yours but weaker players don't act as "feeders" for me, I'm always outmatched in pvp, my highest 4* is 206 and my options are usually maxed 4* squads

HK:

If you want to post a quote, select the "quotation mark" icon above the poster's name/thread title.

I want to use yer post as my jumping-off point, if you don't mind.

In this case, I'm not excited about the prospect of compensation, because it usually comes out to bits 'n' pieces to the individual gamer, and in this case, I'd rather see the guilty punished than the innocent get a handful of pocket change.

The promised randomness was legit; it's just that some folks learned how to, and persistently did, spin the wheel until they got the desired result.

D3 hasn't addressed if the LT payout rates led to any rate tweaking in subsequent patches. That is a big concern of mine.

What I would rather see than a freebie token (which would give most folks a lower cover to sell back for ISO) or HP (which I'll add to my pool for the next ambush-of-new-and-essential-characters-at-once) is this:

A(n in-game?) statement that D3 has ID'd the software exploit and has a method for analyzing accounts with a combination of disproportionately "lucky" draws and repeated re-connects to the server. All past and future accounts will have the following consequence:

These accounts will have their roster, HP, ISO, and SHIELD resupply day rolled back to the day before LT release; Command Points cleared; and their purchases will be refunded. They will have the opportunity to appeal this action to show innocence. If they cannot, they can play with their rolled-back accounts, or they can enjoy a new hobby.

Honestly, most casual players don't know of this forum or this exploit, and blanket pittances will just be met with a shrug.

EDIT for clarification. And this: I included a refund because it affects D3's coffers and it reduces the possibility of players lawyering up for purchases not used to exploit. I think getting money back in exchange for a crippled roster and the time lost pursuing an exploit isn't a neutral outcome.

Thank you, I appreciate your help, your opinion and your perspective...although I wish I could have quoted better earlier in the thread, I knew I would be attacked, much easier to attack the messenger than the message.

My issue is simple, if I would have known the truth I would not have bought the card packs I did, they knew the truth, I'm not bitter about bad pulls, I'm not bitter someone else finished higher than me or has a better roster, I'm content with most aspects of the game, of course there are minor irritants, ie: 20 ISO debate, but I love this game and want to continue to play it, I just want to feel good about it and I don't today. My initial question to the community was the blanket compensation policy claims to be out of fairness, my attempt was to explain why I think it's actually unfair, I genuinely wanted an honest dialogue and that's what you've contributed, thanks again.

PeterGibbons316

JVReal wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Basically you paid for something that others got for free, which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to directly compete with them to progress in the game.

I'm not understanding how they got it for free... Unless there was an exploit to get free tokens to manipulate the pulls with... those tokens were purchased or earned... then cheated to get the pulls they wanted.

People who purchased and pulled honestly, still got what they paid for.

The cheaters need to be banned/sandboxed. No questions. When that happens, their ill gotten gains no longer impact you... so if it isn't for the missed progress or placement... what is the compensation for?

They earned a random token, and turned it into a known token. The randomness of the pulls makes quantifying the extent of the problem an issue, but in the case of legendary tokens each exploited 5* pull averages out to roughly 9 free tokens. That's a pretty big deal.

The issue isn't that people didn't get what the paid for, the issue is the justification for their purchase. "I'm going to spend [$$$] to buy [cover(s)] to be more competitive against [player(s)]." If it turns out that [player(s)] is as good as they are because of an exploit, would the purchase still have been made? How many extra shields needed to be used to beat out an exploiting player for a top spot in a PvP bracket?

It's a complicated issue, and I'm not sure what the right answer is (IMO it depends on the number of top tier players that were using the exploit.) But to say that no wrong was done because people "got what they paid for" is I think a little misguided.

Helen keller

aesthetocyst wrote:

Helen keller wrote:

Hmmm, doesn't look like last reply posted, I'll try again,
This is not about gameplay, I absolutely do not think there should be compensation for finishing an event a few spots lower, it's about the tangible real world money that was spent card packs, a misrepresented product, if I was told that exploit existed that allows players to reroll their draws until they get what they want and ignored for years by the developers I would have not spent a dime on card packs, period.

"aesthetocyst": again, this is not about gameplay, it's about card packs purchased, your baseless accusation that I'm demanding compensation because of "competitive shortcomings" is way off pal, I'm more than content with my performance in the game

Hmmm. A gameplay argument, although misguided and ill-informed, is at least sensible.

This reads as "Someone else cheated. I didnt realize I could / forgot to. Give me free stuff."

Your arguments are based on how you think I feel, you don't know how I feel or what my motivations are, your making assumptions about me based on your own perspective, feelings and moral fiber, just as Malcrof did assuming he knew the motivations and moral fiber of his stated 99%.

Helen keller

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

JVReal wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Basically you paid for something that others got for free, which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to directly compete with them to progress in the game.

I'm not understanding how they got it for free... Unless there was an exploit to get free tokens to manipulate the pulls with... those tokens were purchased or earned... then cheated to get the pulls they wanted.

People who purchased and pulled honestly, still got what they paid for.

The cheaters need to be banned/sandboxed. No questions. When that happens, their ill gotten gains no longer impact you... so if it isn't for the missed progress or placement... what is the compensation for?

They earned a random token, and turned it into a known token. The randomness of the pulls makes quantifying the extent of the problem an issue, but in the case of legendary tokens each exploited 5* pull averages out to roughly 9 free tokens. That's a pretty big deal.

The issue isn't that people didn't get what the paid for, the issue is the justification for their purchase. "I'm going to spend [$$$] to buy [cover(s)] to be more competitive against [player(s)]." If it turns out that [player(s)] is as good as they are because of an exploit, would the purchase still have been made? How many extra shields needed to be used to beat out an exploiting player for a top spot in a PvP bracket?

It's a complicated issue, and I'm not sure what the right answer is (IMO it depends on the number of top tier players that were using the exploit.) But to say that no wrong was done because people "got what they paid for" is I think a little misguided.

EXACTLY

"they earned a random token and turned it into a known token"

The devs claimed the pulls are random and have been tested, all the while they knew this was happening, they were dishonest about a product I purchased. It's not about who benefitted or how it affected gameplay, information about a product was withheld from me, call it being about the principal if you want, under normal circumstances you would ask for a refund if you were dissatisfied with a product or felt there was dishonesty in advertising, although I sarcastically made reference to it earlier that's not what I'm looking for, I don't know what is fair compensation for myself and others like me, I was just having a hard time wrapping my head around why someone who didn't buy the product is entitled to the same compensation as someone who did.

Helen keller

JVReal wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Basically you paid for something that others got for free, which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to directly compete with them to progress in the game.

I'm not understanding how they got it for free... Unless there was an exploit to get free tokens to manipulate the pulls with... those tokens were purchased or earned... then cheated to get the pulls they wanted.

People who purchased and pulled honestly, still got what they paid for.

The cheaters need to be banned/sandboxed. No questions. When that happens, their ill gotten gains no longer impact you... so if it isn't for the missed progress or placement... what is the compensation for?

I really appreciate the views in this response and makes me see it from a different perspective, your right, I got what I paid for, the cheaters should be punished and perhaps that should be the end of it, thanks for not basically saying: I'm not good at the game so I'm looking for a handout

Helen keller

Mawtful wrote:

DrStrange-616 wrote:

My most recent email exchange with CS went something like this:

Me: I'm having problem A. My ign is B. Thanks for your time.
Them: What is the problem you are having?
Me: I'm having problem A.
Them: What is your ign?
Me: My ign is B.
Them: <silence>

I can tell this is fake because CS never reply to someone twice.

Actually they do, they responded to me twice and it was not a stock response, it was respectful and humble, this is what I sent back:

"I appreciate your response and your prompt service, I've had more time to think about it and see it from a different perspectives, I'm upset like many others but it's unrealistic to expect any sort of individual compensation, thank you for your time."

And thank all of you for your time, yes even you...

PeterGibbons316

Everyone will have a different reaction to learning that people they are competing against are cheating. Some won't care - they just have fun playing (aes/JVReal). Some will want to cheat as well to level the playing field (malcrof). Some will view it as a challenge to continue to be competitive against cheaters without cheating themselves (aes/JVReal as well?). Some will not be as willing to dedicate their time and money to compete ethically while others are doing so unethically (HK). Some might not care if the cheating is not so widespread, but would not be willing to compete if everyone else is cheating but themselves (myself).

Regardless of your stance on the cheating aspect - D3 knowing about it and being unwilling to prevent it or at least make people aware that it was happening before they made a purchase under the guise of a fair competitive environment is pretty shady.

Eddiemon

I'm not big on 'compensation', but I think I could better express the issue.

Apart from roster slots all purchases are transient. You buy some covers for Hulkbuster to get ahead, but eventually you would have earned those covers anyway. You're really buying a boost on the performance curve, whether it's Hulkbuster or Health Packs or Boosts.

The cheaters adjusted the performance curve, pushing legitimate players backwards. And some people responded by throwing more money at the game to climb the curve.

Once you remove the cheaters you suddenly find that you have overshot the mark of where you wanted to be. And over the coming months the pack catch up with you while you get duplicates of the stuff you bought because you thought you needed it to be competitive now, when without the cheaters you didn't.

It's not that people didn't get what they bought, it's that the game signals that told them they needed to buy or what they needed to buy were false. So they have purchased ahead of what they need, and they have purchased things the game would have supplied over time. And I understand that that sort of conflicts with my everything is transient statement from earlier, but what I mean is that without the cheaters a 6 cover OML may be exceptional, but with them you need 12 covers to stand out. So buying those 6 extra covers now to keep your roster exceptional is wasted effort. By the time 12 covers is the top of the performance curve you might have earned two or 3 more of them through gameplay and only have needed to supplement it with 3 purchased.

In an absolute sense people got what they paid for, but in a relative sense they didn't. If my roster is already a top 1% but I am spending money because cheats have devalued it to a top 5%, and then you take the cheats out an it reverts to a top 1% but it always would have been anyhow, then I haven't gained relatively for my purchases (which I never would have made if my position hadn't slipped).