D3's policy on compensation

Helen keller

I don't understand the logic/stance D3 takes on compensation, I find it infuriating, maybe my logic is flawed so I'll try to keep an open mind.

For example, on the topic of the ongoing "LT tokengate" I find this statement ridiculous when asked if compensation is being considered for those who dumped money chasing the cheaters that were abusing the exploit the devs were aware of for years and ignored:

"Due to this issue being widespread we are unable to offer compensation at an individual level, it would be unfair to credit one player without crediting all players affected by the issue, therefore if there is to be compensation it will be en mass..."

How do you figure it would be unfair? The majority of players never give you a penny, some a bit here and there, they aren't your paycheck, they dont pay your mortgage, it is a small percentage of us that spend hundreds, some of us thousands, what's unfair are the "whales" being compensated the same as a someone who has never given you a dime.

If you can track the ignored exploit, you can track spending.

You provided an uneven playing field for years, ignored it, presented it as legit, and accepted money from us, it's not only unfair, it's unethical

mohio

I think your problem is that you're assuming that paying players have somehow been hurt more than unpaying players by "tokengate". When a player spends money they get exactly what they paid for, either HP or (PSA: please don't actually buy...) Iso-8. Nothing more is owed to you from your purchase because you agreed to those terms. Where compensation *might* come into play from "tokengate" is due to the cheating (not going to get into whether it's cheating or not, D3 clearly thinks it is and I agree) players taking top spots in all the various events since they have been using the exploit. Not just paying players were unable to reach top 8 of the last few LRs, EVERYONE was unable to. Similarly any PvP or PvE events that have been dominated by ill-gotten 5* rosters effects the placement of every single player in that cheater's bracket whether they paid any money or not.

You could argue that spending money puts you in a better position to actually reap those rewards that should not have gone to cheaters, but there's absolutely no way of demonstrating that you were somehow put at a bigger disadvantage than anyone else. That's why you got the response you got, and why any compensation will be "en masse" as opposed to on an individual basis.

Also finally, any individual compensation would be a logistical nightmare. Do you look at every single event over the last 2 months? 3 months? manually adjust everyone's placement assuming you remove the cheating players from brackets? It is just not doable in a realistic time frame, so they would much rather come up with something they think is reasonable for everyone and push that out all at once. Frankly, I'm much more concerned with them removing the cheaters and eliminating the exploit than I am with getting a little something extra because of it.

edit: I should add - if your request is for your money back due to unethical business practice or something along those lines, obviously your argument would make complete sense and I would wholeheartedly agree. Go to google or apple customer service and they may help you get your money back.

DrStrange-616

My most recent email exchange with CS went something like this:

Me: I'm having problem A. My ign is B. Thanks for your time.
Them: What is the problem you are having?
Me: I'm having problem A.
Them: What is your ign?
Me: My ign is B.
Them: <silence>

PeterGibbons316

Helen keller wrote:

How do you figure it would be unfair? The majority of players never give you a penny, some a bit here and there, they aren't your paycheck, they dont pay your mortgage, it is a small percentage of us that spend hundreds, some of us thousands, what's unfair are the "whales" being compensated the same as a someone who has never given you a dime.

But that is the player-base that keeps the game active and alive. Those are the players that give the whales targets to feed on. Those players are competing against the exploiters as well (and having an even tougher time of it).

Helen keller wrote:

You provided an uneven playing field for years, ignored it, presented it as legit, and accepted money from us, it's not only unfair, it's unethical

Here we agree. I don't know what the right thing to do about it would be, but it's definitely pretty upsetting to know that I've been beaten out for rewards that I spent a considerable amount of time and money trying to attain by people that cheated their way to a stronger roster.

PeterGibbons316

mohio wrote:

Also finally, any individual compensation would be a logistical nightmare. Do you look at every single event over the last 2 months? 3 months? manually adjust everyone's placement assuming you remove the cheating players from brackets? It is just not doable in a realistic time frame, so they would much rather come up with something they think is reasonable for everyone and push that out all at once. Frankly, I'm much more concerned with them removing the cheaters and eliminating the exploit than I am with getting a little something extra because of it.

I agree that I am most concerned with sandboxing the exploited accounts.

Taking the placement of every event since LTs were introduced, removing the sandboxed accounts, and redistributing rewards to players that move between reward tiers would be the ultimate "good guy D3" move in this situation. Kind of a "hey, sorry we allowed you to get beat by these cheaters - here are the rewards that you should have earned without them playing....." I agree that this would be a tedious process, and not likely to happen - but would be nice.

I'm sure they will throw some ISO, some HP, and maybe a couple command points our way and just hope we go about our business.

I'd really like to see a list of accounts that used the exploit as well - both to see how widespread it was, and to see if I recognize any familiar names and try to determine whether or not they actually impacted my placements.

slidecage

Helen keller wrote:

I don't understand the logic/stance D3 takes on compensation, I find it infuriating, maybe my logic is flawed so I'll try to keep an open mind.

For example, on the topic of the ongoing "LT tokengate" I find this statement ridiculous when asked if compensation is being considered for those who dumped money chasing the cheaters that were abusing the exploit the devs were aware of for years and ignored:

"Due to this issue being widespread we are unable to offer compensation at an individual level, it would be unfair to credit one player without crediting all players affected by the issue, therefore if there is to be compensation it will be en mass..."

How do you figure it would be unfair? The majority of players never give you a penny, some a bit here and there, they aren't your paycheck, they dont pay your mortgage, it is a small percentage of us that spend hundreds, some of us thousands, what's unfair are the "whales" being compensated the same as a someone who has never given you a dime.

If you can track the ignored exploit, you can track spending.

You provided an uneven playing field for years, ignored it, presented it as legit, and accepted money from us, it's not only unfair, it's unethical

Not sure why you even think they should give you something im totally lost why you even think they own you something, and maybe someone else can explain to me but i take it as this

Player A cheated so Player B spend 100's of bucks to keep up with player A. So player A has 10 4 stars max So player B spends the money to Max out their 4 stars. Player A gets ban and now Player B think they should be given all of their cash back cause they had to buy the covers to keep up with A YET they still have all of their 4 stars.. So they want their CASH BACK and they want to Keep all of the covers they paid for LOL good one...

Maybe give back all of the covers and everything you won from having those covers then i could see them asking for something back


about tossing something out

Maybe 25 CP 100 or so HP would cover almost what everyone lost max

mrflopwelligan

That's why I don't spend money except for Roster Slots. Because of junk like this. Because glitches happen, because characters get nerfed and then people get mad because they had a tricked out X-Force and the dev 'changed the game out from under them.'

You buy med packs? Guess what, there are a bunch of cheaters out there who'll take you out no matter how many you buy because of a glitch.

You buy covers? Guess what, the devs have decided to change the power sets.

You buy ISO to max out your awesome guy? Guess what, here are 4 more awesome guys that put yours to shame.

It's a never-ending circle, guys. Save your money.

Omega Red

How much is game integrity and credibility worth to you? There's no amount of HP and covers that can compensate you for that.

Helen keller

I apologize that I have not figured out how to quote other posts so I will have to just direct it to the member

Slidecage:
I think I may be owed something because I purchased a product that was knowingly misrepresented by the producer, great lengths are taken on this forum to convince us of the fairness and randomness of pulls

I would be happy to return all my covers and be given a full refund? Is this an option? I'm game and I bet others would be.

Petergibbons:
Maybe my brackets are much different than yours but weaker players don't act as "feeders" for me, I'm always outmatched in pvp, my highest 4* is 206 and my options are usually maxed 4* squads

smkspy

Omega Red wrote:

How much is game integrity and credibility worth to you? There's no amount of HP and covers that can compensate you for that.

For once I agree with you. This game has taken a huge hit when it comes to both. it does feel like a slap in the face though to have spent money on a product that had a huge flaw from the beginning that was never corrected because it helped make the creators more money.

Sad part is that D3 would have continued to ignore it if it were not for the LT tokens.

Mawtful

DrStrange-616 wrote:

My most recent email exchange with CS went something like this:

Me: I'm having problem A. My ign is B. Thanks for your time.
Them: What is the problem you are having?
Me: I'm having problem A.
Them: What is your ign?
Me: My ign is B.
Them: <silence>

I can tell this is fake because CS never reply to someone twice.

JVReal

I honestly don't think EVERYBODY should get compensation.

Though a majority of players were impacted by this, the effects of the cheaters scales way back the further out you get in placement behind these cheaters. 3 cheaters in one bracket can impact the top 100 breakdown. Beyond top 100, the impact is minimal and gets even more trivial as it goes on. If you want to be picky, wherever the HP stops being a reward can be largely dismissed for compensation.

They need to first determine how many took advantage of this exploit, and for how long. That will determine how exact they should be in compensation of people directly impacted.

If there are >100 cheaters, you can see when they started using the exploit as well as what events they participated in. If they didn't score top 100 in those events, no compensation necessary to the other players in those events/brackets. If they did place within the top 100, compile a list of players in those events/brackets, and assign an average compensation of the disparity between the rewards, be it tokens, HP or Iso.

Personally, am usually top 100 in pvp, but seldom play PVE lately except for new releases. Last new release, I didn't play hard, only hit top 250, if a cheater was in my bracket, I would not expect any compensation as my position fluctuating 1-10 places would have had no impact.

Those people directly impacted would be ones I deem 'deserving' of compensation.

As far as a good will gesture to the player base for 'emotional distress'... or whatever it is that people are feeling outraged over... I leave that at the company's discretion. Just know that a good gesture will always be better than no gesture. You will still get people that will scoff at it and cry that it isn't enough, but overall, the community would appreciate it if it came with a statement like "We are sorry that your gaming experience may have been lessened by the actions of a few cheaters, they have been identified and dealt with. Please accept this as a token of our appreciation for your continued loyal support during this time."

DrStrange-616

Mawtful wrote:

DrStrange-616 wrote:

My most recent email exchange with CS went something like this:

Me: I'm having problem A. My ign is B. Thanks for your time.
Them: What is the problem you are having?
Me: I'm having problem A.
Them: What is your ign?
Me: My ign is B.
Them: <silence>

I can tell this is fake because CS never reply to someone twice.

LOL, and like magic, within minutes of my post another reply!

PeterGibbons316

aesthetocyst wrote:

Demanding compensation for this exploit is another instance of looking for an excuse for one's competitive shortcomings.

I think I agree, but am not sure until we understand how widespread the issue was. As far as I can tell - most of the PvP brackets I enter are topped by guys that are legit. Sure you see the occasional roster of 450s, but you just skip and move on - somehow these guys aren't just completely dominating PvP brackets like you might think they are based on the level of outrage.

Bryan Lambert

aesthetocyst wrote:

The exploiting players theoretically strengthened their roster by doing so, but it is still up to each player to put in the time competing in PVE and PVP, and in buying shields in PVP... My roster has always lagged the bleeding edge, probably always will. Roster strength is only a beginning, only takes anyone so far.

Demanding compensation for this exploit is another instance of looking for an excuse for one's competitive shortcomings.

I'm agnostic on compensation for the exploit, but even taking your assumption at face value - that roster disparity can be overcome by the sweat of one's brow, and failure to do so is a "competitive shortcoming", the exploit means that over the last two years, you've had to spend more time, and more on shields, than you would have if the exploit hadn't existed. Which means the exploit cost you, which means there's at least a case for compensation. Maybe not a practical one, but an ethical one.

Helen keller

Hmmm, doesn't look like last reply posted, I'll try again,
This is not about gameplay, I absolutely do not think there should be compensation for finishing an event a few spots lower, it's about the tangible real world money that was spent card packs, a misrepresented product, if I was told that exploit existed that allows players to reroll their draws until they get what they want and ignored for years by the developers I would have not spent a dime on card packs, period.

"aesthetocyst": again, this is not about gameplay, it's about card packs purchased, your baseless accusation that I'm demanding compensation because of "competitive shortcomings" is way off pal, I'm more than content with my performance in the game

PeterGibbons316

Basically you paid for something that others got for free, which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to directly compete with them to progress in the game.

JVReal

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Basically you paid for something that others got for free, which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to directly compete with them to progress in the game.

I'm not understanding how they got it for free... Unless there was an exploit to get free tokens to manipulate the pulls with... those tokens were purchased or earned... then cheated to get the pulls they wanted.

People who purchased and pulled honestly, still got what they paid for.

The cheaters need to be banned/sandboxed. No questions. When that happens, their ill gotten gains no longer impact you... so if it isn't for the missed progress or placement... what is the compensation for?

Helen keller

Really petergibbons that is not how I feel and not complaint I have.

1.They knew the product was "broken".
2.They made no attempt to fix it for years.
3.They did not tell me the product was broken until I had already spent thousands of USD on said product. They sold me a product the knew was broken.
4.Now because of public awareness they decide to fix the broken product.
5.I would not have purchased the product if I knew it was broken.

If this was a tangible product they would likely be forced into a recall or refund scenario.

I frankly I don't understand the circling of the wagons here, I love this game, still! This is not a sense of entitlement issue, I'm not going to make assumptions about how much certain respondents have spent on the game, but I am a VERY good customer, I haven't even made suggestion as to what I think the compensation should be, I don't know how they are going to deal with this, my issue is with a person that spent $0 real world money being compensated the same as someone who spent $2000-3000, again not about gameplay, it's about cardpack purchases.

BearVenger

Helen keller wrote:

I apologize that I have not figured out how to quote other posts so I will have to just direct it to the member

Slidecage:
I think I may be owed something because I purchased a product that was knowingly misrepresented by the producer, great lengths are taken on this forum to convince us of the fairness and randomness of pulls

I would be happy to return all my covers and be given a full refund? Is this an option? I'm game and I bet others would be.

Petergibbons:
Maybe my brackets are much different than yours but weaker players don't act as "feeders" for me, I'm always outmatched in pvp, my highest 4* is 206 and my options are usually maxed 4* squads

HK:

If you want to post a quote, select the "quotation mark" icon above the poster's name/thread title.

I want to use yer post as my jumping-off point, if you don't mind.

In this case, I'm not excited about the prospect of compensation, because it usually comes out to bits 'n' pieces to the individual gamer, and in this case, I'd rather see the guilty punished than the innocent get a handful of pocket change.

The promised randomness was legit; it's just that some folks learned how to, and persistently did, spin the wheel until they got the desired result.

D3 hasn't addressed if the LT payout rates led to any rate tweaking in subsequent patches. That is a big concern of mine.

What I would rather see than a freebie token (which would give most folks a lower cover to sell back for ISO) or HP (which I'll add to my pool for the next ambush-of-new-and-essential-characters-at-once) is this:

A(n in-game?) statement that D3 has ID'd the software exploit and has a method for analyzing accounts with a combination of disproportionately "lucky" draws and repeated re-connects to the server. All past and future accounts will have the following consequence:

These accounts will have their roster, HP, ISO, and SHIELD resupply day rolled back to the day before LT release; Command Points cleared; and their purchases will be refunded. They will have the opportunity to appeal this action to show innocence. If they cannot, they can play with their rolled-back accounts, or they can enjoy a new hobby.

Honestly, most casual players don't know of this forum or this exploit, and blanket pittances will just be met with a shrug.

EDIT for clarification. And this: I included a refund because it affects D3's coffers and it reduces the possibility of players lawyering up for purchases not used to exploit. I think getting money back in exchange for a crippled roster and the time lost pursuing an exploit isn't a neutral outcome.

Ruinate

Helen keller wrote:

5.I would not have purchased the product if I knew it was broken.

Is this true though? Or are you just saying that to get compensation?

If you're not talking about game play then the exploit didn't affect you in any way. You got what you paid for. You bought a product that was breakable and you chose not to break it. What's the problem?