Frustratingly opaque tournament rules

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Katai wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

I think community scaling works because it punishes people like me who purposely wait until near the end of the sub-event and try to snipe a top 5 place by reaping in rubberband points.

Except points are worth **** at the beginning. You can beat all the people and get less than 2000 points, but someone at the end can beat the high level dudes and get 3000 in one battle.

That was my point. If you play at the beginning, you get low points for your effort. If you play at the end (like I do) you are getting way more points. But with community scaling, I am facing much harder battles.

But that reasoning doesn't make much sense, because you get huge level jump due to community scaling before there are any noticeable points increase due to rubberbanding. In fact, since levels don't reset between sub-brackets ending (I think they decrease, but often not that much - depends on each person though) that means you're going to get high level enemies with early, lower points, which makes life difficult not just for those who exploits rubberbanding, but pretty much everyone.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Moghwyn wrote:

I'd rather like to see a different approach, remove the caps entirely. Currently low level and top level players are at a huge advantage, low level players don't get opponents anywhere near the cap, top level players don't face that much of a challenge going against level 230 mobs. It's the mid level players that encounter hell unleashed, most just don't have access to a roster that allows them to compete against those level 230 mobs they are set up against, and two hours combined downtime for each failed attempt doesn't really help. Now, if the caps were removed those top level players would be facing mobs level 1000 and higher. This may sound tough, but given the stated intent behind scaling, top level players should by all rights be facing a tougher challenge than mid level players. And once every top level players gets outright annihilated with zero chance to beat any PvE level at all D3P can finally work on introducing proper scaling that is fair across the board.

Sorry if this sounds slightly frustrated, but I'm seeing level 230 groups in easy mode on every node, maybe one or two exceptions. My highest level hero is around level 100, no damage wonder like GSBW or CMag available. Thanks for dynamically adjusting my difficulty level to the same level as those 141/141/141 teams. My playing skills must be considered godlike.

I don't know how many players you think are 141/141/141, but there aren't many. Plus as has been pointed out multiple times, it is the boosted 2 stars who are key to this event. People who are trying to brute force it with high level characters just die a lot.

A mid range player could easily have a 50 Daken, C Storm and OBW. That's enough to beat most 230 events and will do it far easier than a set of 141s would.

That team can really beat a 230 team? That's 28,000 hit points vs my 12k. I don't even try those. I have a 45 Daken, 60 CStorm, and 85 Thor. I wish I had a leveled up OBW. I've seen teams with her and anyone else just dominate. I could see having a chance with her. Or do you see a possibility besides crazy luck?

Also, what is this "go fight mobs to heal up"? Yeah, if I have a self healer like Daken but you guys prob mean if you have Spiderman or OBW, right? I got only one Spidey card...

Unknown

Marquoz wrote:

ApolloAndy wrote:

But why accomplish that through community scaling? Why not just have individual scaling per node or even just have each node be harder than the last? What is the advantage/motivation behind having my nodes increase in difficulty because someone else beat them?

+1 to that, Andy.

Yes, my question too.

Unknown

Mine basic and hard mode both lvl 230 for the same challenge...

Unknown

Okay, now that i've gotten home and done the early missions in both Easy and Hard, it turns out in Hard the Simulation 03 missions has level 167 enemies, and in "Easy" the Simulation 04 mission has level 215 enemies. I'm ranked 181 in Easy and 116 in Hard, and 125 overall, with 30k points. So it's not like i've been grinding as much as a lot of other people.

I get the feeling that the new players with weak rosters are getting an advantage, and the very experienced players are able to power through (and are probably grinding and making it harder for the rest of us) while the mid-tier players are just getting crushed.

NorthernPolarity

Marquoz wrote:

ApolloAndy wrote:

But why accomplish that through community scaling? Why not just have individual scaling per node or even just have each node be harder than the last? What is the advantage/motivation behind having my nodes increase in difficulty because someone else beat them?

+1 to that, Andy.

I asked the same question, and a developer replied that having static scaling doesn't fit with their design goals to reduce grind. Implementing static scaling would mean that you'd have to grind through the mission a couple of times before getting to a challenging difficulty, and they didn't want that. I'm not sure if I agree with that reasoning, but they definitely considered individual nodes.

Unknown

joeboosauce wrote:

Marquoz wrote:

ApolloAndy wrote:

But why accomplish that through community scaling? Why not just have individual scaling per node or even just have each node be harder than the last? What is the advantage/motivation behind having my nodes increase in difficulty because someone else beat them?

+1 to that, Andy.

Yes, my question too.

I believe the main reason is that scaling doesn't just work for the difficulty increasing but for the difficulty decreasing as you lose (or retreat) battles. When scaling is done at an individual level, it means it's easier to manipulate. When scaling is based on some form of community effort, manipulation becomes harder.

Making it community-based also likely gives the developers some form of feedback about the event and the players involved for future use. How long does it take before one set of mission tops out, the amount of players that are able to beat certain levels X amount of times etc. all are data capable of roughly telling the developers where the playing population is at within the game and is likely more accurate than individual scaling.

And for those that are asking whether it is possible to do well with a low level team, if it's any help, the number 2 in my main event bracket has the following roster and has been putting up decent points the whole event so far:
Highest level 3 characters:
lvl 80 Thor
lvl 70 Ares
lvl 55 **Wolverine

Other characters of note (mainly boosted ones):
lvl 50 Daken
lvl 40 IM40
lvl 40 Magneto
lvl 30 C Storm
lvl 30 Moonstone
lvl 40 GSBW
lvl 50 Spiderman
lvl 20 OBW

Maybe it's that spiderman and/or the magneto but I wouldn't know really.

Unknown

I don't think missions should change level until you complete them once. All levels would start out at their base level set by d3, and once you complete them they would change to the community scaled level. This would reduce the need to play immediately or risk having the missions scale without you even having a chance to play. Once you completed them the first time then scaling would come into play, and making the rankings competitive.

Edit: This would also allow people to play through a campaign type PvE event to see the story, and not have to worry about high level enemies until the second time around.

Eddiemon

joeboosauce wrote:

That team can really beat a 230 team? That's 28,000 hit points vs my 12k. I don't even try those. I have a 45 Daken, 60 CStorm, and 85 Thor. I wish I had a leveled up OBW. I've seen teams with her and anyone else just dominate. I could see having a chance with her. Or do you see a possibility besides crazy luck?

Yes. With OBW espionage stealing colours from the enemy and also her purple ability you can keep your opponent low on AP. blue can spot heal the team.

Daken matches green to generate strike tiles and he regenerates. So he's tanking and adding damage.

C Storm can retaliate if Daken gets hit too hard. She uses the green Daken matches to shuffle the board and generate AP when required. Can do AoE plus blue stun if you don't need the AP for healing.

Between storms green and widows purple you should have plenty of AP and the abilities feed into each other.

Also, what is this "go fight mobs to heal up"? Yeah, if I have a self healer like Daken but you guys prob mean if you have Spiderman or OBW, right? I got only one Spidey card...

There are a couple of missions in the prologue venom section where you get loaned a 1 blue 1 yellow spidey. Used to be better I think but they nerfed it

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

joeboosauce wrote:

That team can really beat a 230 team? That's 28,000 hit points vs my 12k. I don't even try those. I have a 45 Daken, 60 CStorm, and 85 Thor. I wish I had a leveled up OBW. I've seen teams with her and anyone else just dominate. I could see having a chance with her. Or do you see a possibility besides crazy luck?

Yes. With OBW espionage stealing colours from the enemy and also her purple ability you can keep your opponent low on AP. blue can spot heal the team.

Daken matches green to generate strike tiles and he regenerates. So he's tanking and adding damage.

C Storm can retaliate if Daken gets hit too hard. She uses the green Daken matches to shuffle the board and generate AP when required. Can do AoE plus blue stun if you don't need the AP for healing.

Between storms green and widows purple you should have plenty of AP and the abilities feed into each other.

Also, what is this "go fight mobs to heal up"? Yeah, if I have a self healer like Daken but you guys prob mean if you have Spiderman or OBW, right? I got only one Spidey card...

There are a couple of missions in the prologue venom section where you get loaned a 1 blue 1 yellow spidey. Used to be better I think but they nerfed it

Thanks for the response. I really wish I had a playable OBW. Mine only has 4 cards and can only level to about 16 which seems useless. I'm hoping I get 2-3 more cards and I will start putting points into her.

Unknown

An 85 cStorm will win a lot of fights in this PvE. If you can find a way to get hit by a big AoE attack, you pretty much instantly do 6000+ AoE back.

paralistalon

I agree with the topic creator about the rules being opaque. I honestly don't mind the crazy rules that much and really liked getting all that iso at a reasonable (sometimes) challenge. The thing I would like is a very clear explanation of the rules and the scaling. It took me by surprise when my matches scaled in difficulty just due to the time of day I played.