Anything on deck for attacks while in match?

Afrocigar

Just spent about an hour or so at the 6hr mark trying to hit 1k and losing 83, 100, 93, while being 43 away from 1k

So, what's the plan for the 4* transition? Seems like things are spiraling down here. 5*'s are great, i have a 3 cover SS that could be screwing me in PVP & PVE

Progression was changed, good. But, the mark is still unattainable with whatever is going on now. Last season I could hit 1k fairly easy this season, not so much.

Trust this is not a whine. I just want to know if there's something on the horizon or if this is the way it is? There's really no way to reliably get the covers needed. DPD is good, but if you have a 4* with lousy covers, then what? Then you get a LT and its for a 4* you already have.

Yeah, that's the breaks. But, if that's the case where does that leave the players that aren't either new or whaling?..

Chrono_Tata

If you want to get 1k+, you gotta shield hop. From your description, it seems you are trying to get too many points all in one go. When you are at that score, you become a very tasty target and a lot of people will attack you. Once you get to 900, shield up, wait a couple of hours for the attacks to die down (people can't queue you while you are shielded), then break shield to play 1-2 matches. Shield up again and repeat until you get 1k. It shouldn't take more than 2 hops, depending on the available targets in your slice. Never play more than 2 matches per hop as the likelihood of you getting hit increases a lot.

It's possible that rostering a few 5-stars is affecting your scaling where other vets are finding you easier on pvp, hence the increased attack, but if you plan your play properly hitting 1k shouldn't be a problem.

Afrocigar

I had a system similar to that last season and it worked fine. I guess what's getting me here lately is the constant attacks while in a match. It is very frustrating to be at 979, queue a 29pt fight and come out -89. It isn't a very good design. Imagine playing any other game you play with a mechanic that has you losing progress while playing the game as intended.

Guess it's just time to take a break from the game until I can find compromise between enjoying the game or trying for covers.

DFiPL

Afrocigar wrote:

I had a system similar to that last season and it worked fine. I guess what's getting me here lately is the constant attacks while in a match. It is very frustrating to be at 979, queue a 29pt fight and come out -89. It isn't a very good design. Imagine playing any other game you play with a mechanic that has you losing progress while playing the game as intended.

Guess it's just time to take a break from the game until I can find compromise between enjoying the game or trying for covers.

Honestly, my guess is that you aren't getting hit while in a match (necessarily) so much as that the same server lag that has fights worth different values than what's displayed is also manifesting in the report of losses. You've been hit three times...but not necessarily while you were in the fight so much as over a 5-10 minute span and you're getting that report all at once.

UNC_Samurai

I've been snagging 4* covers as cheaply as I can, and my system has been pretty reliable (I've only missed three covers in the last two months or so). And I'm sure it's what a lot of people do. It costs me 225 HP and a couple hundred ISO.

I'm in an alliance that plays nice with some of the big boys (X-Men, Villians, Crewsaders, Dark Matter, etc). They all have battle chats on Line. I tend to hang out in one of the X-Men chats, because it's a target-rich environment.

I climb to about 850-900 with about 10 hours to go, then drop a 3-hour shield. Then I check the Xmen BC every 30 minutes or so, looking for anyone making a shield hop. When someone with a much higher score hops, I open the event and cycle until I queue them up. I always let them know I'm going to hit them while they're shielded; it's always important to be polite and play nice in someone else's sandbox.

With three good opponents queued, at about 7 hours left I make my hop. I don't hesitate to use the most helpful two-color AP boost (+2 purple AP means Fistbuster has a good chance at taking off with one purple match), it can speed up matches if you're even moderately lucky. When I'm done, I pop an 8-hour shield.

This lets me hit 1k with buying just two shields. And if there's a cover I really need and things blew up in my face on the hop, I have another opportunity to hop with appx 2 hours left.

Nellobee

UNC_Samurai wrote:

I've been snagging 4* covers as cheaply as I can, and my system has been pretty reliable (I've only missed three covers in the last two months or so). And I'm sure it's what a lot of people do. It costs me 225 HP and a couple hundred ISO.

I'm in an alliance that plays nice with some of the big boys (X-Men, Villians, Crewsaders, Dark Matter, etc). They all have battle chats on Line. I tend to hang out in one of the X-Men chats, because it's a target-rich environment.

I climb to about 850-900 with about 10 hours to go, then drop a 3-hour shield. Then I check the Xmen BC every 30 minutes or so, looking for anyone making a shield hop. When someone with a much higher score hops, I open the event and cycle until I queue them up. I always let them know I'm going to hit them while they're shielded; it's always important to be polite and play nice in someone else's sandbox.

With three good opponents queued, at about 7 hours left I make my hop. I don't hesitate to use the most helpful two-color AP boost (+2 purple AP means Fistbuster has a good chance at taking off with one purple match), it can speed up matches if you're even moderately lucky. When I'm done, I pop an 8-hour shield.

This lets me hit 1k with buying just two shields. And if there's a cover I really need and things blew up in my face on the hop, I have another opportunity to hop with appx 2 hours left.

The fact that "be in a battlechat with the highest scorers in the game" is part of this workflow should be considered a Pri-1 bug by the development staff.

eaise

Nellobee wrote:

UNC_Samurai wrote:

I've been snagging 4* covers as cheaply as I can, and my system has been pretty reliable (I've only missed three covers in the last two months or so). And I'm sure it's what a lot of people do. It costs me 225 HP and a couple hundred ISO.

I'm in an alliance that plays nice with some of the big boys (X-Men, Villians, Crewsaders, Dark Matter, etc). They all have battle chats on Line. I tend to hang out in one of the X-Men chats, because it's a target-rich environment.

I climb to about 850-900 with about 10 hours to go, then drop a 3-hour shield. Then I check the Xmen BC every 30 minutes or so, looking for anyone making a shield hop. When someone with a much higher score hops, I open the event and cycle until I queue them up. I always let them know I'm going to hit them while they're shielded; it's always important to be polite and play nice in someone else's sandbox.

With three good opponents queued, at about 7 hours left I make my hop. I don't hesitate to use the most helpful two-color AP boost (+2 purple AP means Fistbuster has a good chance at taking off with one purple match), it can speed up matches if you're even moderately lucky. When I'm done, I pop an 8-hour shield.

This lets me hit 1k with buying just two shields. And if there's a cover I really need and things blew up in my face on the hop, I have another opportunity to hop with appx 2 hours left.

The fact that "be in a battlechat with the highest scorers in the game" is part of this workflow should be considered a Pri-1 bug by the development staff.

But it's not necessary to be in one of those battlechats. I hit 1K every PvP (unless I don't want the 4*) and am not in a BC and only use one shield. Reach your float point about 20 hours before end. Then 6-8 hours left climb to 1K shield till end.

(and I generally just use fistbuster unless there are some boosted 3* w great synergy that I have well covered)

Unknown

Waaaay back when Sentry was nerfed, the devs DID talk about "Trying to win a match very quickly and get a shield up before anybody hits you" to be part of the tension, drama, and fun of PVP.

With the Shield cooldown implimentation, they were still all "Yeah, Shield Hopping is fun, but we don't want you to do TOO much of it."

So the devs seem to pretty clearly think that Shield Hopping is a core and fun part of the PVP experience.

Personally, I usually need 75 more then any one cover, but I'm still hiding scared at Level 110ish so not exactly a scary PVP hit here.

Arctic_One

I am tired of hearing people say "Just shield hop." Gee, why didn't I think of that?? It doesn't work if you have no usable 4*. You cant beat 30,000-45,000 point teams fast enough to not get hit several times in the process. I have had multiple times at 990+ points and won a 50+ point match to find out i'm now at around 800 total. Then last 2 pvp I see 1000+ points displayed and Im all excited and get...................nothing. Update lag just gave me a huge middle-finger. Since the inception of LTs I have gotten only 5, one from DDQ vault and one from a PVE grind that seemed so unworth it, and 3 from CP collecting. 3-NFury, 1-IW, 1-ProfX. Not the best of luck but I wont complain as I need ALL of the 4*.
I dont know what the answer is to this problem, I just know the problem is real.

Afrocigar

colwag wrote:

Waaaay back when Sentry was nerfed, the devs DID talk about "Trying to win a match very quickly and get a shield up before anybody hits you" to be part of the tension, drama, and fun of PVP.

With the Shield cooldown implimentation, they were still all "Yeah, Shield Hopping is fun, but we don't want you to do TOO much of it."

So the devs seem to pretty clearly think that Shield Hopping is a core and fun part of the PVP experience.

Personally, I usually need 75 more then any one cover, but I'm still hiding scared at Level 110ish so not exactly a scary PVP hit here.

They, devs, have a pretty skewed view of what is fun for the average player. I say this because of the first implementation of the Galactus event. For the life of me I can't imagine what would make them think that having a character wipe your team would be fun, and to add insult to injury the rewards were awful for an anniversary event.

Same with the PVP structure. How is it fun to be at a disadvantage while playing the game as intended? Plenty of times I have been ~20pts away from 1k and either lose points or the match I queued is worth less points than when I started the match. How is that fun? I have no control over the outcome. The only thing I am in control of is identifying the points, creating my team, choosing boosts, and the actual match. All that is good, but anytime I am punished for something I have no control over is weak.

For them to infer that it is fun and part of the design is an insult to my intelligence. I say this because of the reactionary way they have been addressing issues in the game. I say this because of my experience with XF. I spent money to cover him because it looked like that what I needed to compete. Soon after they nerf him in the name of balancing the game. Now at the higher levels all I see is Jean Gray and Hulkbuster. So, for top tier play that is a required team. Is a nerf on the way for that? All that to say, it seems the game always reaches a point where there are only a few "right" ways to play. Is that what they believe is fun?

Why isn't Mr Fantastic or Invisible Woman valid? Yeah they balanced IW, but she's still mostly useless.

I'm all over the place, but to sum it up, the game is always playing catch up to the players and it seems that it is too unwieldy for them to get a handle on. Legendary Token exploit, Token Resets, Optimum Teams in PVP, Horrible scaling from 5*s, not anticipating the accelerated acquisition of 5*s, Expensive Roster Slots, yet they require 1* and 2* during some PVE's

too much

Unknown

To the op..I feel your pain. Same thing happened to me last night for the umpteenth time. Was on the verge, even had a "cupcake" worth 73 lined up. Literally won that match in about 2 minutes only to come out -89. Happens.every.time. I am about to go over 1k. Oh well. Oh bla di oh bla da.

Unknown

It's hard for me to say "Shield Hopping isn't fun!" when there's a ton of people here who are all "Man, PVP is the only way to play this game its way more fun" when they talk about that junk too.

Only time I got to try a shield hop for 1K was in Balance of Power, and it went as well as it goes in this thread, alas.

Linkster79

Working as intended. Been like it since day 1 and won't be changed any time soon.

Unknown

aesthetocyst wrote:

Players complaining about the one aspect of PvP in MPQ that is actually somewhat ... umm ... "PVP".

A Forum classic!

This OP is specifically about being attacked while in a match tho.

Presumably being attacked while not fighting is A-OK then?

So let's see....if we can't be attacked (or at least not debited .... server is presumably unable to predict the future) while fighting, then we could just play to whatever point, shield, play again as long as we like content in the knowledge that we won't lose points so long as we keep fighting, then shield again....and repeat to whatever score we like.

No downside. No risk.

Sounds thrilling.

I know you're being sarcastic but that sounds WAY more fun then the current system of "You won, but didn't win fast enough so you actually lost 2 matches of progress."

I'd rather take Galactus 1 again compared to that. At least I can occasionally get a lucky board then.

Chrono_Tata

Arctic_One wrote:

I am tired of hearing people say "Just shield hop." Gee, why didn't I think of that?? It doesn't work if you have no usable 4*. You cant beat 30,000-45,000 point teams fast enough to not get hit several times in the process. I have had multiple times at 990+ points and won a 50+ point match to find out i'm now at around 800 total. Then last 2 pvp I see 1000+ points displayed and Im all excited and get...................nothing. Update lag just gave me a huge middle-finger. Since the inception of LTs I have gotten only 5, one from DDQ vault and one from a PVE grind that seemed so unworth it, and 3 from CP collecting. 3-NFury, 1-IW, 1-ProfX. Not the best of luck but I wont complain as I need ALL of the 4*.
I dont know what the answer is to this problem, I just know the problem is real.

You don't need any 4-star to shield hop to 1k. My 4-star roster is relatively narrow, and I do half of the PvP events not even using them. A lot of the time, using the boosted 3-stars are much more effective than using the 4-stars I have. A team of boosted, well-levelled 3-stars with good synergy will take down fully-levelled 4-stars with not much problem. When Lazy Thor and Kamala were boosted last week, I didn't even use my 4-stars, and could hit all the 1k progression rewards I wanted.

Trust me, I've been playing this game close to 2 years and I understand the frustration of losing out on progression rewards because of defensive losses, but I also know that it's not hard to get them once you understand how PvP works and play effectively by working with and around the system.

Shield hopping isn't just spending a ton of HP on shields and expecting to get results. You do have to get a feel of when and how long you could do it, what points you can float at, what teams work for you, etc. It is a process of trial and error and everyone have strategies that work for them, so you are going to screw up the first few times you do it, and probably a lot of times after that. Once you learn it though, it becomes relatively natural and you'll be hitting 1k consistently in no time.

Also for the record, I'm not in any "battle chats" and I don't do any shield hop coordination. The only people I have PvP truce with are my alliance members and a few friendly names. It's definitely not required, although I understand it does make it easier.

XandorXerxes

aesthetocyst wrote:

Players complaining about the one aspect of PvP in MPQ that is actually somewhat ... umm ... "PVP".

I strongly disagree. I never go head-to-head against anyone but a computer. When a player attacks my team, a computer represents me (poorly). There is nothing PvP about PvP.

If we're going to have player vs a computer playing other player's teams, there are plenty of better ideas that could be used (imo). A couple are below - both would require overhaul of the reward tiering (most likely), but both can also condense shards since it's less time-oriented.

1) Choose a difficulty (a la PvE nodes). Players' teams are used as your opponents, scaled up or down based on the difficulty you chose. Moderate difficulty (slightly stronger opponents) = 33 points per win, easier = severely penalized points, harder = more points per win. When you beat a node, a new player's team falls in. Skips don't cost ISO, they lower the point value of the node by a certain amount (5, for example).

This lets anyone use any team. Want to use your non-top-tier characters to counter an enemy team? Do it. Makes opposing teams more dynamic instead of the same boosted/4* characters every match. Are you a better player than your peers? Set a harder difficulty. Get your rewards faster. Would you prefer to just grind it out? Sure thing, set your difficulty easier and play a bunch of extra matches to get the same reward.

2) Defensive point losses and rewards only apply at the end of the event. The higher you go for progression rewards, the more you get blasted and for more points. No more defensive victory point penalty. Placement rewards will likely need to change a bit, but someone who over-extends themselves for progressions will likely end negative points and behind a more cautious player.

Only way to prevent some late-joining/starting abuse on that one though (or really PvP/PvE in general) is to end the event at a random time starting 3 hours before the event would normally end and with a hard cutoff of the event going 3 hours late.

Dayv

I think it would be a very good change for player experience if they added/subtracted the points from your win, checked for progress rewards, and then added/subtracted any points from defense for people attacking you during the match. They'd give out a few more progress rewards, but greatly decrease player frustration. And those rewards would be going to people who are only just barely missing them now, often over and over again. It's not like a player with 200 points could play an 800 point match while everyone's attacks against them just queue up -- you still have to be able to cross the threshold.

Compare it to a bank processing debits and deposits to your account. A big, faceless megabank will usually run all your withdrawals first, largest ones first, before any of your deposits are credited to the account. That way, if you overdraft your account, they can rack up as many overdraft fees for all those little withdrawals they did last before looking at the deposit that might have kept the situation from happening in the first place. On the other hand, a small local bank or credit union that's more committed to customer retention might process the deposits first, knowing that they'll make less money in the short term, but keep customers for longer because high customer turnover isn't a standard assumption in their business model.

Be the friendly, neighborhood bank. Do it for your friendly, neighborhood Spider-Man.

Dayv

XandorXerxes wrote:

Only way to prevent some late-joining/starting abuse on that one though (or really PvP/PvE in general) is to end the event at a random time starting 3 hours before the event would normally end and with a hard cutoff of the event going 3 hours late.

I don't think that's necessary. Five minutes after the event, consider all pending matches terminated (edit: or even one minute after. It's already worth 0 points) and apply any pending defensive adjustments. Some ranks would shuffle slightly, but just note that scores are not final for that five minute period.

Phraeg

Arctic_One wrote:

I am tired of hearing people say "Just shield hop." Gee, why didn't I think of that?? It doesn't work if you have no usable 4*. You cant beat 30,000-45,000 point teams fast enough to not get hit several times in the process. I have had multiple times at 990+ points and won a 50+ point match to find out i'm now at around 800 total. Then last 2 pvp I see 1000+ points displayed and Im all excited and get...................nothing. Update lag just gave me a huge middle-finger. Since the inception of LTs I have gotten only 5, one from DDQ vault and one from a PVE grind that seemed so unworth it, and 3 from CP collecting. 3-NFury, 1-IW, 1-ProfX. Not the best of luck but I wont complain as I need ALL of the 4*.
I dont know what the answer is to this problem, I just know the problem is real.

Actually you don't need to find points higher than yours. You can shield hop fine vs lower points and weaker rosters than your own. Why fight a 50 point match at 990 when all you need is a ten pointer?

OneLastGambit

Phraeg wrote:

Arctic_One wrote:

I am tired of hearing people say "Just shield hop." Gee, why didn't I think of that?? It doesn't work if you have no usable 4*. You cant beat 30,000-45,000 point teams fast enough to not get hit several times in the process. I have had multiple times at 990+ points and won a 50+ point match to find out i'm now at around 800 total. Then last 2 pvp I see 1000+ points displayed and Im all excited and get...................nothing. Update lag just gave me a huge middle-finger. Since the inception of LTs I have gotten only 5, one from DDQ vault and one from a PVE grind that seemed so unworth it, and 3 from CP collecting. 3-NFury, 1-IW, 1-ProfX. Not the best of luck but I wont complain as I need ALL of the 4*.
I dont know what the answer is to this problem, I just know the problem is real.

Actually you don't need to find points higher than yours. You can shield hop fine vs lower points and weaker rosters than your own. Why fight a 50 point match at 990 when all you need is a ten pointer?

I think the answer to this question is rather simple - you know you will be attacked mid match a 50 point match gives you a greater chance of still having enough points after the inevitable barrage of defeats while you're finishing your match to still have enough to carry you over the threshold once your match concludes.

simonsez

Phraeg wrote:

Why fight a 50 point match at 990 when all you need is a ten pointer?

Because the 10 pointer you queue might be worth 8 by the time you hit it