No more $ from me until.......

Phaserhawk

After the last few DDQ 4* and the difficult, and the constant release of 4*'s and Legendary Tokens, and 5*'s and roster slots, and lack of ISO and HP, CP abuse and pretty much everything the community has talked about, I have come to this conclusion No more $ from me until balance is finally addressed.

I get new content, I get revenues and marketing and the whole Freemium model, I get it, it's America, make money. But I cannot keep supporting something that makes something else of mine completely outdated within a few months.

There was a time when Punisher was the center of balanced for 3*'s and that Fury was what was going to be considered balanced for 4*'s ( I have dev proof that Fury was the bench mark of power)

I'm calling you out D3. Stop with the new shiny, and start polishing up some older characters, interface etc. 3*'s should and always be the benchmark for this game until you start handing out 4*'s like 3*'s. This means fixing match dmg, character abilities, health issues, (Daken, Patch, Hood *cough*)

Until I see some headway in this direction my $ to you is done. I encourage many of you to do the same. Right now this game is like a really **** car with amazing features. The 5* and 4* are the new GPS, and back up cam, and leather seats, and the 3*'s are the engine, and this game is really, really in need of a tune up, because the features are amazing but the actual car sucks.

I love this game, but I'm done with my cash until I see some changes.

Thanks for listening yall to a crazy man. Please agree or shred as you like, but health conversation is needed in regards to the lack of balance lately.

Tatercat

Phaserhawk wrote:

This means fixing match dmg, character abilities, health issues, (Daken, Patch, Hood *cough*)

I'm sympathetic to a lot of the frustration in this post, but this one part I possibly disagree with. Do you mean those three characters have low health issues? They would be way out of balance if they had even moderate health levels, like say 3*Cyke or 3* Cap. There's a lot of characters who need adjusting, but those 3 seem about right for what they are, even by the other issues you mention.

Unknown

The problem with this game is that it is fundamentally sound from a gameplay/financial point of view, and the devs seem to have no real ambition to go beyond that. This isn't some game in danger of fading into irrelevance where the devs totally have to cater to every whims of the player base, and yet it's also not rolling out a bunch of game changing updates ready to take over the world. This isn't to say MPQ doesn't have flaws, but the game is solid enough that you end up saying stuff like 'Well XYZ is totally overpowered but the game is still pretty fun' or 'There's an average of 1 new PvE event rolled out once every year but maybe there is still hope'.

In a lesser game you'd have the community manager guy constantly lying about how the new events/updates are just around the corner, or devs rolling out updates that sucked but try their best to sound like it's good. In MPQ you have none of that. I know devs mentioned Blizzard several times and a lot of time it does feel like MPQ has the same attitude of 'no content for an year? No problem!', except MPQ isn't allowed to get away with the stuff Blizzard can get away with (and even Blizzard is promising more frequent content updates in genres where they have a virtual monopoly). Based on the game's history there's no reason for me to believe that the devs can't slap some minimally interesting PvE content more often than once an year, or tune any obviously broken character into something more reasonable. But they just do it at a very slow pace because I don't think they care.

Now, I'm sure the devs are actually quite passionate about their game, but I'm sure Blizzard devs are also passionate even when they're not producing content for an entire year in some cases. Yes game development is complicated and stuff, but you can't just show up with nothing for an extended of time and say 'game development is hard' as an excuse. The game is obviously doing enough to stay afloat, and I think the problem is that while players want to see this game make the step to the next level, the devs seem to be only interested in staying afloat.

aergia

Agreed - I feel the same.
I've supported this game with a very hefty sum of money and was very willing to continue supporting the team/company.

However these last few months, I've been getting less enjoyment out of the game with the carrot constantly moving further and further away...

If notable improvements to address the issues constantly brought up in the forums aren't implemented, I'll likely move on to greener pastures and throw around my money where I feel respected as a consumer.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

The problem with this game is that it is fundamentally sound from a gameplay/financial point of view, and the devs seem to have no real ambition to go beyond that. This isn't some game in danger of fading into irrelevance where the devs totally have to cater to every whims of the player base, and yet it's also not rolling out a bunch of game changing updates ready to take over the world. This isn't to say MPQ doesn't have flaws, but the game is solid enough that you end up saying stuff like 'Well XYZ is totally overpowered but the game is still pretty fun' or 'There's an average of 1 new PvE event rolled out once every year but maybe there is still hope'.

In a lesser game you'd have the community manager guy constantly lying about how the new events/updates are just around the corner, or devs rolling out updates that sucked but try their best to sound like it's good. In MPQ you have none of that. I know devs mentioned Blizzard several times and a lot of time it does feel like MPQ has the same attitude of 'no content for an year? No problem!', except MPQ isn't allowed to get away with the stuff Blizzard can get away with (and even Blizzard is promising more frequent content updates in genres where they have a virtual monopoly). Based on the game's history there's no reason for me to believe that the devs can't slap some minimally interesting PvE content more often than once an year, or tune any obviously broken character into something more reasonable. But they just do it at a very slow pace because I don't think they care.

Now, I'm sure the devs are actually quite passionate about their game, but I'm sure Blizzard devs are also passionate even when they're not producing content for an entire year in some cases. Yes game development is complicated and stuff, but you can't just show up with nothing for an extended of time and say 'game development is hard' as an excuse. The game is obviously doing enough to stay afloat, and I think the problem is that while players want to see this game make the step to the next level, the devs seem to be only interested in staying afloat.

Hold the phone Phantron your're back? Good to see you buddy

ShadowX1984

aesthetocyst wrote:

While heartily with the OP, I fear it requires making the business case that sinking resources into updating old work will drive new sales.

I agree, though when we consider the pipeline of new and developing players, the existing 2* and 3* roster is going to be the primary determinant of their game experience for quite some time. Right now the game is coasting on existing whales but play experience with Punisher and 3* Storm are going to be factors in determining whether the next generation of whales sticks around to drop cash on the 4* transition. It's in the devs' interests to keep the 3*s relevant and fun, especially if they're going to remain the backbone of the reward structure.

Argon Flame

I have brought this up a couple of times, what are the Devs plans for MPQ? Are they just trying to make a game that will draw punters (whales) in and make them easy money? Or are they trying to make an enduring game with balance and care? What I've noticed with the lack of Dev input on these forums is that they either don't care enough to read posts or they don't care enough to do anything about them.

I've been playing almost a year now. I've got a fully covered but under levelled 3-star roster but I can't get 4-star covers consistently enough to fully cover them. What's left for me? Grinds to get a legendary token for a 4-star cover I may need? Trying to hit 1k in PvP with 2x 5-stars skewing my scaling/match-making?

puppychow

aesthetocyst wrote:

Seems to me it's the Marvel-required dud launches (Cho, Flaptain, etc) that keep new releases from being exactly that. And the devs also seem to be releasing characters that are what players need rather than what they might want; chracters that are useful, but not necessarily FAST.

I tend to agree with this. It feels like a lot of stuff that the game developers want to do is pushed to the side due to tie-ins with other marvel properties. Perfect example is Cho. Not really liking him much as MPQ character, but I imagine Marvel wants him out there to cater to Asian consumers. now if he were as useful as a Kamala, that would be another story.

Polares

This game is a rarity in my life as a gamer, I have never played a game that has made me so much angry and frustrated, but at the same time that I love to play so much and I enjoy when it is at its best. The fundation of this game is really great, but I see a lot of laziness in devs part sometimes, so many things are inexplicable, like Galaktus round 1 or DDQ4 for Reed Ridchards.

In some ways this game was quite similar to Destiny, but Destiny has improved and used the user feedback to get better, and I am sure when Destiny 2 comes out next year it is going to be really excelent. MPQ on the other hand, every time improves on something breaks another thing or create a function that it is two steps back.

But there's been a constant since the beginning, and it is that balancing doesn't exist in this game. There is so much difference between chars of the same rarity. I still remember when Xforce and 4hor were nerfed 'for the good of the game', and now we have 4s that are better than those two, and those two are medium to low tier (always overnerfing).

I guess we worry about the game, and devs worry more about their jobs and earning money to keep the game alive, and this two things sometimes doesnt align.

XandorXerxes

I recently hit a major "hours played" milestone for me on a steam game, so I thought about dropping some cash for a stark salary as a way of saying thanks. I looked to see how I would spend my HP, and realized that I could finish off several 4*s - but none of the top-tier ones (Carnage is the closest thing I have to a top-tier with a decent amount of covers).

I paid a small amount early in my career for roster slots, and I don't mind forking over more given the amount of time I've put in the game... there's just nothing for me to put it in. The 1K PvP rotation isn't fast enough and I'm not lucky enough to have more than 3 covers in the top-4* characters. Given that I've had a run of really terrible luck (100 tacos no 4* rewards, 4-ten packs with no 4*s in one season, incredibly unlucky cascades / struggles in some PvPs) and that new characters are dropping all the time, I don't know that I could call buying a stark salary a purchase. It'd be more or less a $100 donation - though I've put in enough hours, maybe they've earned it.

If they want me to throw down money as a purchase as opposed to a sense of obligation or thanks, then the ratio of goods/money needs to improve - especially given there's a whole new not-directly-purchasable tier.

Pylgrim

I'm calling you out D3. Stop with the new shiny, and start polishing up some older characters, interface etc. 3*'s should and always be the benchmark for this game until you start handing out 4*'s like 3*'s.

This is the crux of the problem. The balance of power of the game shifted quite aggressively but the economy is lagging far behind. I think that the devs are aware of this and are addressing it. The issue, I think, is that they underestimated how much the economy needed to shift and they did introduce several improvements around 6 months ago... but they proved to be nowhere near what was necessary and while they have been working on ways to fix the gap (it is a delicate balance, after all), the gap has just become wider. Hopefully next set of measures will be both sufficient and future-proofed.

TLCstormz

puppychow wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Seems to me it's the Marvel-required dud launches (Cho, Flaptain, etc) that keep new releases from being exactly that. And the devs also seem to be releasing characters that are what players need rather than what they might want; chracters that are useful, but not necessarily FAST.

I tend to agree with this. It feels like a lot of stuff that the game developers want to do is pushed to the side due to tie-ins with other marvel properties. Perfect example is Cho. Not really liking him much as MPQ character, but I imagine Marvel wants him out there to cater to Asian consumers. now if he were as useful as a Kamala, that would be another story.

Uhm.........this is borderline offensive. lol

STOPTHIS

aesthetocyst wrote:

Lastly I would say that some of the blame is at the players' feet, for chasing characters that are either popular regardless of utility (Ghost Rider!), or that have great PVP utility but little popularity (Red Hulk), and yet giving a cool reception on new designs that are functional, but neither PVP dominant nor "cool" enough (Cho).

If the dev was to cater to the player's demand, they would only release fan favorites (even if this somehow required them to flaunt the licensor's requirements (yeah right)), or they would release a continuing string of increasingly dominant characters.

Seems to me it's the Marvel-required dud launches (Cho, Flaptain, etc) that keep new releases from being exactly that. And the devs also seem to be releasing characters that are what players need rather than what they might want; characters that are useful, but not necessarily FAST.

I don't know if I'd agree with this. The devs have chosen to keep the game strictly competitive, so if a character isn't going to be dominant very few people will bother with them. I think it really got bad at the end of the 3* era. A huge chunk of the last 3* were all heavily powered (Cyc, KK, Cage, IF, SW) and the cynic in me says it was to milk whales before moving on to the 4* realm. Speaking of the 4* realm, there was a string of over powered characters there too (IMHB, JG, Iceman). If players only care about the most dominating characters, it's because they've been trained to.

optimus2861

TLCstormz wrote:

puppychow wrote:

I tend to agree with this. It feels like a lot of stuff that the game developers want to do is pushed to the side due to tie-ins with other marvel properties. Perfect example is Cho. Not really liking him much as MPQ character, but I imagine Marvel wants him out there to cater to Asian consumers. now if he were as useful as a Kamala, that would be another story.

Uhm.........this is borderline offensive. lol

It's kind of a tangent, but I think it's borderline offensive on Marvel's part to "re-skin" all of their classic characters with new ethnicities just to claim that they're being "diverse". It's like they want to invest the bare minimum amount of effort in it. "Nah, we don't want to be bothered to think of a compelling new character archetype around which to build a new Asian character. Let's just make him the new Hulk! And we can make a girl into Wolverine! And Captain America can be black!" Etc.

But then I long ago gave up hope of anything compelling coming out of Marvel. They've fully devolved into a licensing machine that happens to print comics. Nothing more.

Mercurywolf

optimus2861 wrote:

TLCstormz wrote:

puppychow wrote:

I tend to agree with this. It feels like a lot of stuff that the game developers want to do is pushed to the side due to tie-ins with other marvel properties. Perfect example is Cho. Not really liking him much as MPQ character, but I imagine Marvel wants him out there to cater to Asian consumers. now if he were as useful as a Kamala, that would be another story.

Uhm.........this is borderline offensive. lol

It's kind of a tangent, but I think it's borderline offensive on Marvel's part to "re-skin" all of their classic characters with new ethnicities just to claim that they're being "diverse". It's like they want to invest the bare minimum amount of effort in it. "Nah, we don't want to be bothered to think of a compelling new character archetype around which to build a new Asian character. Let's just make him the new Hulk! And we can make a girl into Wolverine! And Captain America can be black!" Etc.

But then I long ago gave up hope of anything compelling coming out of Marvel. They've fully devolved into a licensing machine that happens to print comics. Nothing more.

Ok I think this post is just trolling: A lot of the "re-skinning" you are mentioning is not creating new characters but re-tooling classic characters to give me them more spotlight time. The Marvel universe is packed to the brim with obscure characters who could use this treatment. Amadeus Cho has been a long-time character and ally of both Hulk and Hercules. X-23 is taking the Wolverine identity to honor Logan, who is currently dead. (Not counting OML who is around now because of Secret Wars.) Falcon is taking on the mantle of one his closest friend's and allies, who can no longer hold the mantle. Jane Foster picked up the hammer because Odinson is no longer worthy of the power of Thor. Why create a new character that you then have to tie in to the somewhat convoluted history of the comics, and possibly tie their history with other characters, when you can create much more compelling stories and arcs with existing, albeit rarely used characters that people might have forgotten about?

Malcrof

Mercurywolf wrote:

Ok I think this post is just trolling:

This entire thread is a giant trolling.. even the OP. 3* characters are done for the most part.. they announced a while ago a bump to 4*s is coming .. so it is actually about nothing at all.

simonsez

Malcrof wrote:

This entire thread is a giant trolling.. even the OP.

You don't often see trolling as popular as that...

optimus2861

Sam Wilson as Cap is the only one I see as compelling, myself, precisely because Sam has had such a long history with Cap already. The rest... nah. I don't buy it. It feels cheap to just "transfer" the hero powers from character to character like that. It's effectively saying, like in Jane's case, "We can't come up with any interesting ideas for Jane on her own, so let's just make her Thor." It was cheap in the 90s when there were four Supermen running around and a crazy replacement Batman and a clone Spider-Man; I don't view it as much different now.

Anyway I'll shut up about this now. It's off-topic and the thread is probably on death watch as it is.

STOPTHIS

Mercurywolf wrote:

Why create a new character that you then have to tie in to the somewhat convoluted history of the comics, and possibly tie their history with other characters, when you can create much more compelling stories and arcs with existing, albeit rarely used characters that people might have forgotten about?

Why create a new character? Because it actually adds to the overall diversity of the MU and isn't just musical chairs with identities. It wasn't too long ago that Marvel was doing great with that. Jessica Jones, all of the Runaways, several Young Avengers, Gravity, Blue Marvel, Echo, Hood, Sentry, even Cho. And that's not even getting into the dozens of new mutants. A rather diverse line up of new characters and the MU was better for it.

You don't need to tie into some convoluted history, you just create a character and get running. But new characters can be a hard sell, so instead they take the easy route of slapping an established identity usually on an existing character and call it a day. I quite like some of the current changes, but it still feels lazy overall. Marvel is suppose to be the House of Ideas, but there's a huge lack of new ideas coming from them.

Pinko_McFly

Every one of these stories could be considered compelling in their own right, but the fact that they have been piled upon each other over and over for the last 2 years or so, it feels like more of a marketing gimmick than any real commitment.
Maybe these will be catalysts for these characters to grow into their own super-stardom down the line once the mantle is returned, then sure, I'd call it a success. At this point it just seems like ways to get a story on US Today (where I first heard about KK, Miles Morales, Iceman, Thor).

Tatercat

Weird place for a diversity discussion to pop up, but here we go:

Marvel Comics was a originally a bunch of white dudes making a product that catered to white boys. I'm not judging them with a modern day sneer down my nose, it was just the times of that period. But just because that's the way the world was then, doesn't mean we now in 2015 should feel beholden to follow the original text to the letter. We, as a people now, aren't held to the same constraints. The Marvel brand (and yes it is a corporation with corporate needs that they serve) has grown bigger than original target demo. Thanks to the movies, people from many walks of life, different race and gender life, have found something in these characters and stories that speaks to them. But they shouldn't feel limited by reading a book where the the only people that look like them are non-powered side-kicks or the girlfriend that needs rescuing. That's the thing I've seen from most white contemporaries who roll their eyes at Marvel when they shake up books like this every couple of years. They've never read a comic where the only character that visually depicts their life experience, is the guy that fixes Batman's car. Or is stuffed in a fridge to motivate the main dude in tights.

I'm a white guy in his forties. I'm the target for lot of what Marvel has published over the years. I'm not afraid to have an asian guy, a black boy, or a little girl experience the same joy or wonder that Marvel has given me over the years. The main Marvel characters and their ideals are bigger than that.

And they always have been! Even in the 60's, the original Marvel heroes all had allegories to life experiences outside of that target demo of white male kids. The X-men is most famous example, with the civil right metaphor and Prof X & Magneto being stand ins for Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X. But Spider-man is one as well, speaking not to a uniformly white experience, but to a urban city experience, a locale more than a race. Over time, that's grown even more pronounced. Look at the basics of Peter Parker's initial status quo as a teenager: Inner city setting, absent father figure, raised by an aunt, both Peter and his aunt taking multiple jobs to make ends barely meet. Does that sound like the average Caucasian experience in America today? Spidey's a New Yorker first, his race isn't even an issue in making him the hero he is. Why couldn't he be black? How is that a betrayal of any of the character fundamentals that have been laid out?

Marvel, even getting into the 70's, has always pushed what they could with the confines of their day. Yes, most of the time it can be cringe worthy looking back at those early Luke Cage books or the Carol Danver's original Ms Marvel book, because again, it was still a bunch of white guys writing "Black" or "Feminist" heroes. But that was the times and they were the guys with their foot in the door. They were doing what they could, however clumsily. But that spirit, from the original 60's stuff through then, lives on in the diversity we're seeing now. You can't say its just consumerism greed pushing this on us (though I'm sure they're happy to exploit it). It's always been in Marvel's DNA.

Look, I like new characters too, built from the ground up be their own thing. Kamala Kahn is a good book from what I've read of it. Black Panther is awesome. But the main Marvel icons are still what pulls people in, that's what gets into people's hands (or Tablets), no matter where they are from. It's okay for change once in a while. You know it won't last, Thor won't always be a woman, comics are inherently cyclical. But that's not the point. The point is to say "this could be you, too" to some kid who has always been told otherwise. If your ego and worldview can't handle that, I don't know what to say to you. This isn't a "Social Justice" argument, it's just common sense.

End rant.