Dauthi's Token Journal - Legendary Tokens Don't Work

Pylgrim

Very well, then. Let's leave it at that. I'll just only add that what you (and a couple other people) see as a martyr complex is just me presenting my case as an evidence that there is a problem with the LTs to all the people that try to minimise the impact of luck in 4* progression. I've had to repeat over and over because there's always someone new that come with the same claims without having read the thread. But I have in several occasions admitted that I understand that mine is a freak, extreme case. I don't expect compassion and I know that I cannot expect compensation, and that is fine. The only thing I want is people to understand that there is an issue that would be rather easy to address and that would benefit everybody if fixed, not only me.

morph3us

It sounds to me like people are talking at cross purposes here, and actually mostly agreeing with each other, but not necessarily reading it that way.

The thing that everyone agrees on is that random sucks as a means of progression, be that 4* or 5*.

Technically, the 720CP upgrade cost is a way of progressing without the RNG intervening, but it relies on your having the cover first to start with, likewise with the 2500HP upgrade cost for 4*s. The problem is that the devs have put themselves in a bind by powering up the 5*s to the level that they have, such that they have to appropriately cost the value of a 5* cover at astronomical levels so they don't flood the game.

The other complicating factor is that it's a Freemium game, which means that progression has been set to be glacially slow, unless you're prepared to fork out some serious dosh, which ties back into the "random sucks as a means of progression" theme.

Dauthi

Opened 2 tokens today, received another Thing (green) and another Hulkbuster (blue). Neither needed. My pull rate drops from 24% to 19%.

Got a Kingpin (yellow) from a normal token, though didn't need it, 40% to 33%.

If anything is going to make me quit, it's this. I not only can't seem to correct this bad luck streak with a good one, I seem to be digging the hole deeper. I decided I will start noting how many covers I am down, because this is actually affecting my ability to play now. I am watching my alliance members who I used to stand toe to toe with (comparing rosters) completely surpass me.

26 legendary tokens

3 x Nick Fury (blue)
2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
2 x Invisible Woman (blue)
1 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
1 x Invisible Woman (green)
1 x X-Force (green)
1 x X-Force (black)
1 x Thor (yellow)
1 x Kingpin (black)
1 x Kingpin (purple)
1 x Kingpin (yellow) Needed
2 x Thing (green)
1 x Deadpool (red)
1 x Jean Grey (green)
1 x Antman (purple) Needed
1 x Antman (yellow)
1 x Mr. Fantastic (blue) Needed
1 x Mr. Fantastic (black) Needed
1 x Cyclops (yellow) Needed
1 x Carnage (red)
1 x Hulkbuster (blue)

Pull rate 19% of 49% --- Should have 13 covers I needed --- Currently down 8 covers

4*s from other tokens

1x X-Force (black)
1x Mr Fantastic (blue) Needed
1x Hulkbuster (blue)
1x Elektra (black)
1x Thing (yellow) Needed
1x Kingpin (yellow)

Pull rate 33%

Pylgrim

Dauthi wrote:

Opened 2 tokens today, received another Thing (green) and another Hulkbuster (blue). Neither needed. My pull rate drops from 24% to 19%.

Got a Kingpin (yellow) from a normal token, though didn't need it, 40% to 33%.

If anything is going to make me quit, it's this. I not only can't seem to correct this bad luck streak with a good one, I seem to be digging the hole deeper. I decided I will start noting how many covers I am down, because this is actually affecting my ability to play now. I am watching my alliance members who I used to stand toe to toe with (comparing rosters) completely surpass me.

26 legendary tokens

3 x Nick Fury (blue)
2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
2 x Invisible Woman (blue)
1 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
1 x Invisible Woman (green)
1 x X-Force (green)
1 x X-Force (black)
1 x Thor (yellow)
1 x Kingpin (black)
1 x Kingpin (purple)
1 x Kingpin (yellow) Needed
2 x Thing (green)
1 x Deadpool (red)
1 x Jean Grey (green)
1 x Antman (purple) Needed
1 x Antman (yellow)
1 x Mr. Fantastic (blue) Needed
1 x Mr. Fantastic (black) Needed
1 x Cyclops (yellow) Needed
1 x Carnage (red)
1 x Hulkbuster (blue)

Pull rate 19% of 49% --- Should have 13 covers I needed --- Currently down 8 covers

4*s from other tokens

1x X-Force (black)
1x Mr Fantastic (blue) Needed
1x Hulkbuster (blue)
1x Elektra (black)
1x Thing (yellow) Needed
1x Kingpin (yellow)

Pull rate 33%

Damn, "congrats", you have pulled ahead of me in this dismal race to the bottom for the title of worst luck. Thankfully, in the latest interview devs finally acknowledged that there's a /real/ (not only imagined, as some people kept implying) problem with LTs and that they are looking for ways to fix it.

smkspy

Opened my LT from Hulk event, and low abd behold I get Iceman, one of the two four stars not on my roster. That's six pulls in a row of characters I didn't have.

Crazy conspiracy theory but I think LTs are more likely to pull those characters you don't have rather than the ones you do.

Fully expect Hulkbuster or OML on my next open.

_Vitto

smkspy wrote:

Opened my LT from Hulk event, and low abd behold I get Iceman, one of the two four stars not on my roster. That's six pulls in a row of characters I didn't have.

Crazy conspiracy theory but I think LTs are more likely to pull those characters you don't have rather than the ones you do.

Fully expect Hulkbuster or OML on my next open.

Nah, leave conspiracy out of this.. It's just bad (good?) luck.
The main issue with LTs is that they penalise players with bad pulling streaks, with the risk of affecting heavily their progression. Mixing in this context strange theories about a corrupted RNG system is counterproductive.

Unknown

The game has become very poor after the entry of LT. Now the fate takes precedence over the effort. I've heard of several people who have given up the game by bad luck. The last event pve already indicates that it is broken. Played less than 4 days and almost went top 20. I bet many people get repeated and covers with little use just like me. LT? Ant-man yellow, the other repeated.

I can not remember the last important cover I received from LT, I think it was Cyclops or SS about 1 month ago. Relevant 4 * was received this week the green cover x-23 lightning round that is not a top 4 *. I do not see any sense to play pve, except perhaps launching new characters.
.
As a solution I suggest there are two rewards progression for pve and pvp. As an example: The Hulk LT was 88k. On that score you could choose between the LT or 4 * event (in this case would be FalCap). Thus it would not be useless to play pve. The same goes for pvp.

I guess I just got lucky with LT for IMHB. When I had some other good cover was received isolated case.

Stax the Foyer

Pylgrim wrote:

Thankfully, in the latest interview devs finally acknowledged that there's a /real/ (not only imagined, as some people kept implying) problem with LTs and that they are looking for ways to fix it.

That's good that they're acknowledging that, but the damage has kind of been done. 3 months isn't that much in the lifetime of the game, but it's given the lucky players a head start that is going to be insurmountable for a many of the unlucky players, unless they make changes to the game that trivialize the 5* tier.

As people get discouraged, and stop trying for more legendary tokens, that gap is just going to grow. I know I've given up on most non-release PvE legendary tokens, and on offseason PvP tokens. The effort to likely reward ratio is just laughable.

I don't begrudge the whales their 5*s, or the lucky players their luck. But I'm not seeing a compelling reason to keep up my current playstyle, and my interest in the game is rapidly waning.

Dauthi

Got 2 hulkbusters I don't need, one from my legendary I worked a week for in PVE, and another from normal tokens. Pull rate goes from 19% to 18%.

27 legendary tokens

3 x Nick Fury (blue)
2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
2 x Invisible Woman (blue)
1 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
1 x Invisible Woman (green)
1 x X-Force (green)
1 x X-Force (black)
1 x Thor (yellow)
1 x Kingpin (black)
1 x Kingpin (purple)
1 x Kingpin (yellow) Needed
2 x Thing (green)
1 x Deadpool (red)
1 x Jean Grey (green)
1 x Antman (purple) Needed
1 x Antman (yellow)
1 x Mr. Fantastic (blue) Needed
1 x Mr. Fantastic (black) Needed
1 x Cyclops (yellow) Needed
1 x Carnage (red)
1 x Hulkbuster (blue)
1 x Hulkbuster (black)

Pull rate 18% of 49% --- Should have 13 covers I needed --- Currently down 8 covers

4*s from other tokens

1x X-Force (black)
1x Mr Fantastic (blue) Needed
1x Hulkbuster (blue)
1x Hulkbuster (red)
1x Elektra (black)
1x Thing (yellow) Needed
1x Kingpin (yellow)

Pull rate 28% down from 33%

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Thankfully, in the latest interview devs finally acknowledged that there's a /real/ (not only imagined, as some people kept implying) problem with LTs and that they are looking for ways to fix it.

That's good that they're acknowledging that, but the damage has kind of been done. 3 months isn't that much in the lifetime of the game, but it's given the lucky players a head start that is going to be insurmountable for a many of the unlucky players, unless they make changes to the game that trivialize the 5* tier.

As people get discouraged, and stop trying for more legendary tokens, that gap is just going to grow. I know I've given up on most non-release PvE legendary tokens, and on offseason PvP tokens. The effort to likely reward ratio is just laughable.

I don't begrudge the whales their 5*s, or the lucky players their luck. But I'm not seeing a compelling reason to keep up my current playstyle, and my interest in the game is rapidly waning.

This so much. The damage is done. I started playing hardcore from the start of the game and they have wrecked my roster, with only the hope to repair it over the course of 6+ months (depending on the change).

My Girlfriend whos roster is nowhere near mine because she plays more casual, is slowly passing me by pulling 5*s. She has 2 SS's and 3 OML's! When are we getting word from D3?

Magic the Gathering Puzzle Quest is really, really fun. Hmmm.

Polares

Wow Dauthi your luck really sucks :S

I have been recording all my pulls from LTs and for now I am slightly in the positive for total pulls, and quite lucky in the 5 pulls. Considerations, my roster is quite good, I have more 4s covered than not ( probably close to the 60-65% covered ).

I have opened 62 LTs, 36 of them were usable, 13 of those were 5s. That is 58% usable tokens, 20% 5s. So I guess I should be quite happy.

One consideration, If I remove 5 from the equation then just 37% were useful which is more close to the feeling of not being very happy with LTs I have. If I pull a 5 then I am super happy, if I see a 4 appearing then most of the time is someone I already have covered, so 'sadness'. Then, help in the 4 transition? Just a little bit, for me LTs have just added another layer (the 5s), when I open one, they are about pulling 5s.


Anyway, I agree that LTs should not be luck based, NEVER EVER SHOULD BE LUCK BASED, I have said that thousands of times. LT should always give you a 4 you need or CPs, and then sometimes a 5 or a 5 shard (and with 10 shards you get a random cover).

PS: My luck is getting worse though, lust 11 no 5s and just 4 / 11 usables to a ratio of 36% I guess now I am paying for those extra 5s I got...

Linkster79

Pylgrim wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Opened 2 tokens today, received another Thing (green) and another Hulkbuster (blue). Neither needed. My pull rate drops from 24% to 19%.

Got a Kingpin (yellow) from a normal token, though didn't need it, 40% to 33%.

If anything is going to make me quit, it's this. I not only can't seem to correct this bad luck streak with a good one, I seem to be digging the hole deeper. I decided I will start noting how many covers I am down, because this is actually affecting my ability to play now. I am watching my alliance members who I used to stand toe to toe with (comparing rosters) completely surpass me.

26 legendary tokens

3 x Nick Fury (blue)
2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
2 x Invisible Woman (blue)
1 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
1 x Invisible Woman (green)
1 x X-Force (green)
1 x X-Force (black)
1 x Thor (yellow)
1 x Kingpin (black)
1 x Kingpin (purple)
1 x Kingpin (yellow) Needed
2 x Thing (green)
1 x Deadpool (red)
1 x Jean Grey (green)
1 x Antman (purple) Needed
1 x Antman (yellow)
1 x Mr. Fantastic (blue) Needed
1 x Mr. Fantastic (black) Needed
1 x Cyclops (yellow) Needed
1 x Carnage (red)
1 x Hulkbuster (blue)

Pull rate 19% of 49% --- Should have 13 covers I needed --- Currently down 8 covers

4*s from other tokens

1x X-Force (black)
1x Mr Fantastic (blue) Needed
1x Hulkbuster (blue)
1x Elektra (black)
1x Thing (yellow) Needed
1x Kingpin (yellow)

Pull rate 33%

Damn, "congrats", you have pulled ahead of me in this dismal race to the bottom for the title of worst luck. Thankfully, in the latest interview devs finally acknowledged that there's a /real/ (not only imagined, as some people kept implying) problem with LTs and that they are looking for ways to fix it.

They are also looking into the 20 is reward for story event missions too. They are also looking into story event scaling issues. They are also looking into versus MMR being broken.

Hope your not holding your breath.

OneLastGambit

Most games make it so that the further you progress the harder it is to progress further (if they are designed well) so I guess the token pulls is this games method of making progress tougher the higher you go. Most games do this via changing the level of difficulty rather than limiting the available equipment, so in order to change this you would then have to do the following:

Get rid of tokens and simply have placement or progression rewards for characters instead - but - make them incredibly hard to obtain. Therefore players control their progression in the same way as any home console based game.

anyone fancy facing a level 500 dark avengers team in order to get your OML cover from progression?

or

Maybe you prefer needing 2500 points and 1st place to win it from PVP?


The game does not have an inherent difficulty level because the game (by design) is not a progression based game like the ones many of us play on consoles. So unless they make it a linear game with a definitive finish point the only way to slow players progress is to dilute the things they work for (characters & covers) with new content (the much maligned new characters) or to control the flow of how they obtain them (LT's).

There is a reason that progress gets slower the further you get...because that's how everything works. It was easier making scientific discoveries back when people thought burning magnesium was wizardry, these days it's tough because there's a lot less to discover. It was easier finding new countries back when people thought you fell off the edge of the earth than it is now where it is all mapped. Likewise when you have none of the content your progress is obviously going to be quicker than someone who has nearly all of it.

Progress SHOULD be slower the further along you get. It SHOULD slow down over time, this is how they keep you playing. If progress was quick all the way through (like if you were a moby **** for example) you would lose interest in a week

_Vitto

OneLastGambit wrote:

Most games make it so that the further you progress the harder it is to progress further (if they are designed well) so I guess the token pulls is this games method of making progress tougher the higher you go. Most games do this via changing the level of difficulty rather than limiting the available equipment, so in order to change this you would then have to do the following:

Get rid of tokens and simply have placement or progression rewards for characters instead - but - make them incredibly hard to obtain. Therefore players control their progression in the same way as any home console based game.

anyone fancy facing a level 500 dark avengers team in order to get your OML cover from progression?

or

Maybe you prefer needing 2500 points and 1st place to win it from PVP?


The game does not have an inherent difficulty level because the game (by design) is not a progression based game like the ones many of us play on consoles. So unless they make it a linear game with a definitive finish point the only way to slow players progress is to dilute the things they work for (characters & covers) with new content (the much maligned new characters) or to control the flow of how they obtain them (LT's).

There is a reason that progress gets slower the further you get...because that's how everything works. It was easier making scientific discoveries back when people thought burning magnesium was wizardry, these days it's tough because there's a lot less to discover. It was easier finding new countries back when people thought you fell off the edge of the earth than it is now where it is all mapped. Likewise when you have none of the content your progress is obviously going to be quicker than someone who has nearly all of it.

Progress SHOULD be slower the further along you get. It SHOULD slow down over time, this is how they keep you playing. If progress was quick all the way through (like if you were a moby **** for example) you would lose interest in a week

I feel like you're missing the point.
It's not that people complaining here are doing so because their progress is slow.
They are complaining because the gap between players with lucky and unlucky LT pulls is just too wide.

Unknown

_Vitto wrote:

I feel like you're missing the point.
It's not that people complaining here are doing so because their progress is slow.
They are complaining because the gap between players with lucky and unlucky LT pulls is just too wide.

Exactly. It is natural that the increase becomes slower over time. Another thing is not to have progression because you have no luck although work hard. Meanwhile, people with little effort progress rapidly because're lucky. I feel that after my stop I did not come back.

Hayek

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Thankfully, in the latest interview devs finally acknowledged that there's a /real/ (not only imagined, as some people kept implying) problem with LTs and that they are looking for ways to fix it.

That's good that they're acknowledging that, but the damage has kind of been done.

If I recall correctly, what Fletcher said on the interview is that there's a "perception" issue in the player base and acknowledged that they view that as a problem. It sounded to me like when they run their numbers, they are happy with the 5* pull rates, but they are not happy that so many of us are not as happy as them.

I agree that much of the damage has been done. The odds that you're going to hit a lucky streak and get back to some equilibrium pull rate are low, since your past pulls have no influence over your future pulls. You'll be playing from behind from now on. We already see 5* rosters take the top rewards in LRs. What 4* roster in their right mind (without spending those super whales) would attack team with 100k health and 1.5k match 3 damage in a lightning round? In a couple of months you'll be squeezed out of being able to compete for top 8 rewards as well despite having (in some cases) worked much harder on your 5* transition than some of these 5* players. PvE? You'll find that you can't compete for top 2 rewards in new character release PvEs because 5* rosters can grind all nodes to 1 in half the time it takes you with their match damage, passive strikes, and huge ability damage, and they never need health packs.

Tarouza

After that announcement by D3, I wonder how much was luck and how much was exploits

Dauthi

Pulled 1 needed cover out of 4, which improved my odds which were under 1/5... yay? Invisible Woman (yellow), Xforce (green), X-23 (purple) needed, Elektra (red). Pull rate 18% to 19%. Lost another cover, missing 9 covers up from 8 I can't beat the DDQ 4* today with my 2/4/1 cyclops, its hard to not think one of these 9 covers I am missing would have been a cyclops and help me out.

[/b]
31legendary tokens

3 x Nick Fury (blue)
2 x Nick Fury (Purple)
2 x Invisible Woman (blue)
2 x Invisible Woman (yellow)
1 x Invisible Woman (green)
2 x X-Force (green)
1 x X-Force (black)
1 x Thor (yellow)
1 x Elektra (red)
1 x Kingpin (black)
1 x Kingpin (purple)
1 x Kingpin (yellow) Needed
2 x Thing (green)
1 x Deadpool (red)
1 x Jean Grey (green)
1 x Antman (purple) Needed
1 x Antman (yellow)
1 x Mr. Fantastic (blue) Needed
1 x Mr. Fantastic (black) Needed
1 x Cyclops (yellow) Needed
1 x Carnage (red)
1 x Hulkbuster (blue)
1 x Hulkbuster (black)
2 x X-23 (purple) needed

Pull rate 18% of 49% --- Should have 13 covers I needed --- Currently down 9 covers

4*s from other tokens

1x X-Force (black)
1x Mr Fantastic (blue) Needed
1x Hulkbuster (blue)
1x Hulkbuster (red)
1x Elektra (black)
1x Thing (yellow) Needed
1x Kingpin (yellow)

Pull rate 28% down from 33%

I'm waiting for D3s actions regarding this AND the exploit now, and deciding where to go from there. As a player who started from the beginning, I feel like I am getting trampled on.