Censorship & Propaganda on the Forums

DrStrange-616

Lately, I've seen some strange and unpleasant things here. There seems to be some new edict, or perhaps the mods have taken this on themselves, to sanitize the board. There's always been some but now it's quite aggressive and, frankly, embarrassing. Lately, I've seen burying "why I'm quitting" threads, actual editing of other people's posts to change the meaning/content, and locked threads that clearly don't address the issues.

What's going on? Is this the new forum? It is D3's and they can do as they wish, but things feel gross now.

See the 20 ISO thread as the latest example.

Ludaa

I was going to post a sarcastic comment slightly related to your post, but then I figured that would just make the thread look derailed, and get it locked.

snlf25

It's classic over-moderation, seen it a hundred times on a hundred forums. They will eventually get bored with the full time job of playing net nanny and things will go back to normal.

simonsez

DrStrange-616 wrote:

Lately, I've seen burying "why I'm quitting" threads

And here I was thinking that people had stopped quitting...

JVReal

I personally think the 20 Iso thread was locked prematurely, didn't need to be locked at all. The edited title could be better, perhaps "What are the odds for getting 20 Iso?"

The addition of "20 Iso answered!" gives the false impression that there was resolution to the 20 Iso problem... when there isn't. That's probably why when I read that brief thread, I came out of it with lots more questions but couldn't ask because it was locked. Nothing was resolved.

I wanted to ask when that 50/50 was instituted, because when I started to play last year, the explanation was that there were 5 rewards... the 4 listed and the ever present 20 Iso option and that every reward earned was replaced with another 20 Iso... so the more you won of the 4 rewards, the worse your odds of getting the remaining.

As IceIX explained it, a 50/50 shot is a huge improvement over what it used to be. Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, but I would have liked to figure that out in an active thread about the topic of 20 Iso odds that had a dev commenting in it... that wasn't locked.

To the OP... I see your example of censorship, but I don't understand your reference to Propaganda.

Malcrof

JVReal wrote:

I personally think the 20 Iso thread was locked prematurely, didn't need to be locked at all. The edited title could be better, perhaps "What are the odds for getting 20 Iso?"

The addition of "20 Iso answered!" gives the false impression that there was resolution to the 20 Iso problem... when there isn't. That's probably why when I read that brief thread, I came out of it with lots more questions but couldn't ask because it was locked. Nothing was resolved.

I wanted to ask when that 50/50 was instituted, because when I started to play last year, the explanation was that there were 5 rewards... the 4 listed and the ever present 20 Iso option and that every reward earned was replaced with another 20 Iso... so the more you won of the 4 rewards, the worse your odds of getting the remaining.

As IceIX explained it, a 50/50 shot is a huge improvement over what it used to be. Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, but I would have liked to figure that out in an active thread about the topic of 20 Iso odds that had a dev commenting in it... that wasn't locked.

To the OP... I see your example of censorship, but I don't understand your reference to Propaganda.

Actually, the reference is to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35055

Not the one where IceIX gave the math. The one IceIX responded to, was locked and stickied in an attempt to keep it clean for future use in the FAQ, me linking it in the other big 20 iso thread (one of about 50 i think) is what instigated this thread.

Unknown

We have mods locking player topics, devs locking mod topics, next up the CEO will be down here locking dev topics for having the audacity to explain things!

Unknown

if you make too many 'non-positive' contributions there is also a chance a mod will delete your post and give you a warning.

Unknown

Mods need to remember that they are just as much part of the gamer side of the community, as they are mod's.

Mod's shouldn't hold back their own frustrations, nor hide those of their fellow gamers. They should really focus on keeping spam down and removing any racist/hateful/vulgar filled comments. Outside of that, they should just let the community run themselves.

They don't get paid, so no reason to act like they do.

TheOncomingStorm

Just a thought. There are different sections of the forum. (This will show how long one been here, but) originally, threads and posts were quickly moved to the correct section. Then there was a period of no one tending to the forums. There was also a period of nonce modding the forum single handedly before he got a raw deal (imo). Things got better afterwards, bUT things never fully got back to the way things were originally til now.

In other words, general discussion is not Facebook where people can just write whatever topic they want and/or be rude to each other. If someone writes a "quit" thread about what they feel is wrong with the game, the best category for that is usually the Suggestions section; after all the author is telling mpq what areas of the game need improvement. The real problem in that (and many) situation(s) is that forumites tend to post threads where they think they'll be seen by more people instead of which section is the most appropriate.

DrStrange-616

That all makes sense in theory, TOS, but in reality ... moving them is essentially burying them, esp to Suggestions. Also, by its very title general discussion covers a lot of ground.

Looking at the front page of right now, if we apply strict rules, most of them should be moved, but they're not. That's about half that are in the "wrong" place.

Censorship & Propaganda on the Forums - Suggestions
4* DDQ: Your Thing is on FI-YAAHHHH! - Events
What does True Healing mean anymore? - Characters
Totally Awesome Hulk Makes His Game Debut In MPQ! - Characters, but it's an official announcement so it's here
I call **** on the randomness of pulls, please prove me wrong - Suggestions
Stop giving 20 ISO rewards first, discussion and musings - Suggestions
Only one 4* in the Gauntlet... - Events
A Giant Crotch Appears - Events
More Probability Whining (Legendary Token Pulls) - Suggestions

I know that being a mod is difficult. And I'm glad many of those threads have not been moved. I'm just concerned by what I perceive as a coming trend.

TxMoose

TheOncomingStorm wrote:

The real problem in that (and many) situation(s) is that forumites tend to post threads where they think they'll be seen by more people instead of which section is the most appropriate.

I caught myself wanting to post a roster thread in general for that reason alone. I thought better of it and posted in the roster subthread. and I was right to initially want it in general since I've had 2 guys weigh in on the question. would have been read much more here, but no telling if that would have led to more responses or not.

conversely I posted something about 3 weeks ago back in general and it got no responses until it got moved to roster, so who knows.

Pinko_McFly

Maybe if the devs/forum admins/comm managers spent more time giving feedback in the subforums, people might use them.
Sure ice posts in characters, does he regularly post in suggestions to give people feedback on their suggestions? Or are you more likely to get feedback when u post in general discussion.
Ps I am not referring to the bugs forum which is suppossed to be monitored

Colognoisseur

First let me thank those who are doing the moderating for taking on a thankless job.

I have to admit for my taste the moderating has been a little heavy handed and inconsistent.

The very rapid merging of threads sometimes make them unreadable because the merged threads keep repeating the same point and it often seems nonsensical until i notice the slight change to post names. I am wondering if it is possible to make a subforum for hot topics? Like currently 20iso awards could be one.
The effort to keep things clean overall ends up cluttering up the thread left behind.

The inconsistency comes with moving quit threads over to off topic but keeping things like "ooh look at the crotch" or my "favorite comics and memes" in General. The quit threads at least have something to do with the game. Crotch shots, comics, and memes do not.

I am the first to say since I am not doing it I will abide by the decisions of those who are doing it. This is just another voice to let you know a little lighter hand might be appropriate.

Pylgrim

Malcrof wrote:

JVReal wrote:

I personally think the 20 Iso thread was locked prematurely, didn't need to be locked at all. The edited title could be better, perhaps "What are the odds for getting 20 Iso?"

The addition of "20 Iso answered!" gives the false impression that there was resolution to the 20 Iso problem... when there isn't. That's probably why when I read that brief thread, I came out of it with lots more questions but couldn't ask because it was locked. Nothing was resolved.

I wanted to ask when that 50/50 was instituted, because when I started to play last year, the explanation was that there were 5 rewards... the 4 listed and the ever present 20 Iso option and that every reward earned was replaced with another 20 Iso... so the more you won of the 4 rewards, the worse your odds of getting the remaining.

As IceIX explained it, a 50/50 shot is a huge improvement over what it used to be. Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, but I would have liked to figure that out in an active thread about the topic of 20 Iso odds that had a dev commenting in it... that wasn't locked.

To the OP... I see your example of censorship, but I don't understand your reference to Propaganda.

Actually, the reference is to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35055

Not the one where IceIX gave the math. The one IceIX responded to, was locked and stickied in an attempt to keep it clean for future use in the FAQ, me linking it in the other big 20 iso thread (one of about 50 i think) is what instigated this thread.

I wish you hadn't locked that thread. We had got "word of God" on the 20 Iso problem, so while Ice was around he could have answered questions regarding a workaround for it. Much less important that a definitive explanation is the fact that a majority of the player base (seriously, I think 300 upvotes in that other thread is the highest ever) feels that it is infuriating and unfair.

Raffoon

My favorite recent example was a guy that posted about how he was sad that he needed to sell surfer to keep playing the game. His post was a combination of seeking advice and pointing out a glaring issue with the game that needed attention. It was determined that his thread was "going nowhere", despite a lot of feedback about his predicament. So, it was locked and he was told to go post in the vent thread.

At this point, if you post anything that reflects poorly on the game or points out an issue, you run a high risk of your topic being locked.

Colognoisseur wrote:

I am wondering if it is possible to make a subforum for hot topics?

I feel like that's what General Discussion is.... If you slice it right, almost any thread could technically be moved to another sub-forum.

timbopp

JVReal wrote:

I personally think the 20 Iso thread was locked prematurely, didn't need to be locked at all. The edited title could be better, perhaps "What are the odds for getting 20 Iso?"

The addition of "20 Iso answered!" gives the false impression that there was resolution to the 20 Iso problem... when there isn't. That's probably why when I read that brief thread, I came out of it with lots more questions but couldn't ask because it was locked. Nothing was resolved.

I wanted to ask when that 50/50 was instituted, because when I started to play last year, the explanation was that there were 5 rewards... the 4 listed and the ever present 20 Iso option and that every reward earned was replaced with another 20 Iso... so the more you won of the 4 rewards, the worse your odds of getting the remaining.

As IceIX explained it, a 50/50 shot is a huge improvement over what it used to be. Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, but I would have liked to figure that out in an active thread about the topic of 20 Iso odds that had a dev commenting in it... that wasn't locked.

I completely agree.
Allow me a moment to be "that guy" and pull out the old dictionary:

forum
noun fo·rum \ˈfȯr-əm\

: a place or opportunity for discussing a subject
: a public meeting place for open discussion
: a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas

How does locking threads facilitate open discussion and the exchange of ideas?

spatenfloot

simonsez wrote:

DrStrange-616 wrote:

Lately, I've seen burying "why I'm quitting" threads

And here I was thinking that people had stopped quitting...

"Why I'm quitting quitting"

Ram51

Colognoisseur wrote:

First let me thank those who are doing the moderating for taking on a thankless job.

I have to admit for my taste the moderating has been a little heavy handed and inconsistent.

The very rapid merging of threads sometimes make them unreadable because the merged threads keep repeating the same point and it often seems nonsensical until i notice the slight change to post names. I am wondering if it is possible to make a subforum for hot topics? Like currently 20iso awards could be one.
The effort to keep things clean overall ends up cluttering up the thread left behind.

The inconsistency comes with moving quit threads over to off topic but keeping things like "ooh look at the crotch" or my "favorite comics and memes" in General. The quit threads at least have something to do with the game. Crotch shots, comics, and memes do not.

I am the first to say since I am not doing it I will abide by the decisions of those who are doing it. This is just another voice to let you know a little lighter hand might be appropriate.

I think it's a case of moderators letting their personal preferences dictate what posts they think should be moved, locked etc. Certain moderators have expressed their distaste for "negative" or "whining" topics and these topics are often hit hard by the modhammer. It may be why comics and memes are in General because they are "positive" and quitting threads are moved to wherever they are.

timbopp

I'm going to throw a little conspiracy theory into the 'Censorship & Propaganda' mix.

In the "Are Node Rewards Equal?[20 ISO answered!]" thread, the OP was answered by IceIX in less than 20 minutes. A few people then raised the usual 20 ISO issue/complaints/questions but (yet again) they weren't responded to. 10 hours later (plenty of time for IceIX to read/reply) the thread was locked.

The 20 ISO uproar has been unavoidable on the forums and the devs have been steadfast in their refusal to openly address it.
Could it be that Malcrof was asked by IceIX or another dev to lock the thread?
I would imagine a thread about 20 ISO that a dev had actually commented on would soon see an influx of users posting their questions and complaints. IceIX would then either have to finally address the issue or again ignore it, but to answer the OP question and ignore the rest would only serve to further anger and upset the player base.
Would it be better for them to deflect that anger to the issue of heavy handed, lock-happy mods?

Malcrof

timbopp wrote:

The 20 ISO uproar has been unavoidable on the forums and the devs have been steadfast in their refusal to openly address it.
Could it be that Malcrof was asked by IceIX or another dev to lock the thread?

The answer is nope. Not even a little.

This was not the first time he has answered this, and not the first dev to answer this (the chances of getting the 4 rewards vs the 20 iso).. and , now.. none of those threads are anywhere to be found, and virtually impossible to even search for.. because the second it is explained, the threads turn into a free for all questions about everything "OMG A DEV ATTACK WITH ALL YOU GOT" situation.. and then they go off the rails..

The devs answer quite a bit, .. so having to answer the same questions over and over and over for 2 years (this is not a call to arms as to why it is no different, there is a thread for that) , on the occasions they get to come to the forums.. is probably about as fun as you think it is .. and i am sure most people would rather get a different question answered next time. So, i took some initiative.. it was answered, i left some time for some responses.. then i preserved it, and stickied it.. It is not getting lost this time.. it is not getting turned into a mish mosh of 40 additional questions that may not get answered.. It IS going to end up in the FAQ, and hopefully, as these more common questions get answered officially by a red name, we can build up a good list.. so NEW questions can be posed and answered.

That's your conspiracy folks.... preservation of the answer to a question asked so many times it is dizzying. Yes we still have a few active 20 iso threads out there.. and the content was added to one of the biggest ones.. and if the dev's address the other portions of the 20 iso conundrum, that info as well will go into a sticked locked thread for the FAQ.. (probably going to add to the one already locked until the FAQ is in order) ..

Don't over think things.. if you feel someone is being heavy handed with your post, try a PM... heck, the big thread in questions, as i linked above.. was one that was being prepped for a move.. the OP pm'd me, made his case, re-worded it from a suggestion to a topic of conversation, and bam, it's been one of the most active topics in general discussion since.

I am not anti-negativity, what i am anti is simple.. non-constructive negativity and whining, yu can be negative and still be constructive.. some of the things mentioned in this thread, were posts moved because they were just bile for bile's sake.. an example was the Give Thanks thread.. posts that say things like "thanks for nothing" or "swear word swear word swear word" in a thread someone starts trying to be positive, yes, they will be "sanitized" the hell out of there. I just looked, in the past month, less than 10 posts have been removed from threads.. 4 of which were duplicates at the posters request... out of the thousands of posts.. not sure how people define sanitizing the forums, but that probably isn't it.. If a thread is started that is nothing constructive, just a flat out attack, with nothing in it.. yah, its probably getting moved.. If your thread is about something you dislike in the game, and think needs changing.. and you put what you would do instead... guess what .. That's called a suggestion! It will most likely be moved... If you dislike something, and wants others input on it, and it is not a duplicate of other threads currently on the first 2 pages.. it will stay and become general discussion. Being rational and reasonable i believe is not too much to ask..

Yes, if you try to skirt the language filter, your post will be edited.

If it gets moved and you wanted it to be a conversation .. reply to the PM! (weekends may take longer for a response from some, weekdays longer for others, so my suggestions is to always include a 2nd mod on the reply)

As for quit threads.. apparently that debate has been going on for a loong time.. , i was a member of the forum long before i became a mod.. and quit threads always ended up in the same place as the Hello threads and the Welcome Back threads.. off-topic.. why? dunno, honestly i don't.... when i became a mod, and a quit thread showed up, i asked, and was told to put it into off topic.. so, i did.. that's it, there is your reason.. which is... no idea... but, this is not the first time this has come up.. and as Fight4thedream and Jamie learned me yesterday.. not one that has ever been really settled... but, it is in the process of being discussed.. and who knows, maybe they don't belong in off-topic, most, actually, in my opinion, are feedback(exit interviews) .. so should be in suggestions and feedback... but not my decision to make.

As for thread locks.. go through 5 or 6 or more pages of general..you will see very few locks, and the ones that were locked, were done so with a valid reason.. even one of the ones mentioned above.. the OP responded to my PM when it was locked, asked for something to be added, and it was added..

Think i covered everything brought up... any additional questions, i will happily answer.