720 CP?! Really?

Vhailorx

Considering all the other CP streams you omitted, how long do you think it takes a player to pile 720 of them? In a week, I've gone through 88 of them, only 20 of them were the initial freebies.

.. more than most? Maybe? (Time for a poll!) .... but I know others who have acquired far more.

I didn't say there was only one way to get CP, I said that it wasn't possible to get MORE than 7 CP at any one time (ie buy a stark salary, get 7 cp for you and your alliance). There are other ways to get CP, but they all give fewer than 7 CP.

As for acquisition rate, you play significantly more than the average person (as does almost everyone on this forum), and by your own admission you got 60-something in a week's time. That means that a hard core player might earn enough CP to buy a single 5 star cover in what, 10 weeks? And that's a bonus above your stated rate, accounting for some alliance purchases and daily rewards, and assuming that you do nothing else with the CP.

That seems absurdly slow for me. In 10 weeks time, hardcore players will earn enough HP to buy a 4* cover or two while keeping pace with roster requirements. The pricing seems too high.

As for "giving the situation some room to develop," I think you can look back at my posting history and see that I always try to be even handed with criticism of the devs, from the 4* ddq roll out, to the 5* announcement, to the xfw/4* thor nerf in spring 2015. I don't see any problem with criticizing newly implemented features. I DO see a problem with personally attacking the devs, even when they implement bad features, or with assuming that a feature now = exactly what the feature will always be.

Yes it's early on CP. But how will the devs know to change their system if we don't post out criticism? The bottom line is that the pricing model is horrible for players as it currently exists. And it is the latest in a fairly long string of similarly player-unfriendly new features. If pointing that out is a problem, then I can only say I don't want to be part of a community that finds that sort firm but polite criticism beyond the pale.

OneLastGambit

Not to change topic from this highly pleasant conversation but are there really gamers out there spending $100k on a mobile game?!

Whomever is spending that much money is a moron and has far more money than sense. I'm still shocked people drop the dollars for one stark (which is 1/6 the value of my car) so to read that people out there would be willing to spend that much further cements my opinion that modern gaming should be categorised as a mental disorder.

aesthetocyst

Vhailorx wrote:

That seems absurdly slow for me. In 10 weeks time, hardcore players will earn enough HP to buy a 4* cover or two while keeping pace with roster requirements. The pricing seems to high.

Well, yeah, that's the point of the thread, right? Check. Considering one stream in a vacuum and declaring it too slow.

So, how often do you think players ought to be able to direct-buy the "unwhaleable*" 5*s?

________________

* Obviously NOT truly whaleproof, as was the stated intent, like other things in game (looking at you, ), really dang expensive for anyone who just has to have it.

lukewin

This is one of the times, I would have had no problem with the thread being locked and merged into one of the existing threads about command points / 5* cover costing 720 command points. The OP is now informed about the cost of a 5* cover but isn't up to date about all the conversations that have already taken place regarding it, so instead of rehashing everything, how about we just direct them to a thread where the conversations have already taken place?

Rob13

Don't worry vhal, I'm not offended by grammatical errors!!!

Ducky

Vhailorx wrote:

I didn't say there was only one way to get CP, I said that it wasn't possible to get MORE than 7 CP at any one time (ie buy a stark salary, get 7 cp for you and your alliance). There are other ways to get CP, but they all give fewer than 7 CP.

Sorry to be that guy, but this is also incorrect. Daily rewards have the potential to give up to 25 at one time depending on how far along you are.

acescracked

OneLastGambit wrote:

Not to change topic from this highly pleasant conversation but are there really gamers out there spending $100k on a mobile game?!

Whomever is spending that much money is a moron and has far more money than sense. I'm still shocked people drop the dollars for one stark (which is 1/6 the value of my car) so to read that people out there would be willing to spend that much further cements my opinion that modern gaming should be categorised as a mental disorder.

There are alot of people with alot of money in this world. So many people who tens of thousands of $$ really mean nothing to them.

OneLastGambit

acescracked wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Not to change topic from this highly pleasant conversation but are there really gamers out there spending $100k on a mobile game?!

Whomever is spending that much money is a moron and has far more money than sense. I'm still shocked people drop the dollars for one stark (which is 1/6 the value of my car) so to read that people out there would be willing to spend that much further cements my opinion that modern gaming should be categorised as a mental disorder.

There are alot of people with alot of money in this world. So many people who tens of thousands of $$ really mean nothing to them.

Those people should not have that kind of money if they are throwing it away on mobile games, that could do some real good in the world.

I'm shocked by how wasteful the world is at times.

Malcrof

acescracked wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Not to change topic from this highly pleasant conversation but are there really gamers out there spending $100k on a mobile game?!

Whomever is spending that much money is a moron and has far more money than sense. I'm still shocked people drop the dollars for one stark (which is 1/6 the value of my car) so to read that people out there would be willing to spend that much further cements my opinion that modern gaming should be categorised as a mental disorder.

There are alot of people with alot of money in this world. So many people who tens of thousands of $$ really mean nothing to them.

I live near a certain MLB player who plays MPQ.. and what he spends on his mobile games.. makes me cry (ran into him at Publix, we were both playing MPQ waiting on our subs.. was a nifty conversation)

Vhailorx

DuckyV wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

I didn't say there was only one way to get CP, I said that it wasn't possible to get MORE than 7 CP at any one time (ie buy a stark salary, get 7 cp for you and your alliance). There are other ways to get CP, but they all give fewer than 7 CP.

Sorry to be that guy, but this is also incorrect. Daily rewards have the potential to give up to 25 at one time depending on how far along you are.

Fair enough. But the daily rewards have almost no player agency. if you play the game, they happen. If you suddenly decide you want to buy something with CP, the daily rewards don't care or respond in any way. you still get your 15 or 25 per 30 days (depending on how many days you have played) no matter what. If you want to actively acquire CP by choice, you have to grind pretty hard to win 1-3 in a PVP or PVE event, or you can purchase as many as 7.

And my underlying point, that 720 CP is an extremely high cost for a resource that is distributed in very small increments, remains true. Relying solely upon the 25 CPs every 30 days, it will take more than 2 years to collect enough CP for a single 5* direct buy.

aesthetocyst

Vhailorx wrote:

And my underlying point, that 720 CP is an extremely high cost for a resource that is distributed in very small increments, remains true. Relying solely upon the 25 CPs every 30 days, it will take more than 2 years to collect enough CP for a single 5* direct buy.

Your "point" is an opinion. It's neither true nor false.

You haven't answered this question: how often do you think a player ought to be able to directly buy a 5* cover?

Further, why obsess over that price point? Again, the main means of distribution are Legendary tokens. A player can either buy 28.8 legendaries, or push the "Buy 5* cover button. And the first copy of a given cover remains "priceless", it has to be pulled.

Obviously it only makes sense to hit that button is you reeeeeeeeally need / want to. And it's for the game's (current) ultimate trophy. It ought to be expensive.

Once upon a time, buying 4*s for 2500HP seemed insane. Still does to me, but it's relatively common.
__________________

Let's say someone is playing PVE and PVP at a pretty high level, and in a very competitive alliance. How many CPs can they pile up a month, in the current setup?

25 Daily Rewards
24 PVP Top 10s (12 events/mo)
48 PVP nodes (24 subs/mo)
24 PVP sub top 10s (24 subs/mo)
30 Alliance purchases (Assumes 1 member spends $20/day)
151

That's 151 CPs per month for competitive play, and very modest spending for that level of play. So 5 months to push that button.

OR, player uses that CP to buy 6 Legendaries a month, in addition to the 20-30 others he wins every month. Yielding 2-4 5* covers every month from his 26-36 tokens.

So he can acquire 10-20 5* covers in 5 months. Once they're covered (which, yes, will take time....it's supposed to), he lets the CP pile up to make occasional direct cover purchases to work on optimally covering his little demigods.

Vhailorx

2500HP for 4* covers is also crazy. I have posted about that in the past too. Demiurge has been too aggressive on monetization for a while, and it's only getting worse.

I am not sure what the ideal number of 5* cover direct buys might be, but I am damn sure that it's more than 1 per 5 months of very serious competitive play (the schedule you outlined probably involves 3+ hours of play time per day) AND a big spending alliance.

Remember also that during the last two months demiurge has released 39 5* covers, with more on the way, along with something like 52 4* covers with 13 more every two weeks. prices are way way too high relative to that release rate.

I get that games need to create an incentive to spend in order to sustain themselves, and I get that scarcity of resources, and preventing a player from maxing out everything at once is a good way to keep players engaged.

but this is too much. If we are going to have extreme resource scarcity, then we should have an easier time selecting how to spend our resources. And if we are going to be pressured to spend real world money all the time, then we should get something tangible for a hefty real-world purchase of $50.

But as this game currently stands, the only efficient way to spend CP resources is on random packs, that may or may not include a character you even need, let alone one you actually want. And buying even $50 worth of HP gets you a little less than 1/3 of a frontline 4* (assuming you have some covers already), but no way to level them at all.

It's a player-unfriendly environment that is getting worse all the time. Playing this game feel like being Lando Calrissian after making a deal with Darth Vader. . .

lukewin

The 720 price point is in line with the fact you can't buy 5* covers outright. I'm pretty sure both decisions came from the poll they had months ago about directly buying covers. I would think they would go with the majority feedback they received, which is likely that people didn't want to be able to purchase covers directly. I'd say most people answered that way because they didn't want other people buying them directly. The people that buy covers is far outweighed by the people that don't. There'd be far more outrage if people were outraged, but I would say that most people aren't.

As someone who actively plays the game, not just a DDQ player now, I am fine with how much the 5* covers cost. I would rather face max 4* that were bought/earned than max 5*, which would probably pop up faster and more frequent if 5* covers cost an amount OP would be happy with. If the number of people with max 5* rosters was 1/10th of the number of people with max 4* rosters, the game would be a lot less fun to play. Then there'd be another complaint OP could have, that what they wanted came to be, but it caused another problem. Most other people would either just deal with it, some would complain about it, and the smarter ones would work it to their advantage.

Vhailorx

Ok, clearly I am not adequately explaining my position. I don't care about purchasing covers. I don't purchase covers, and I wouldn't purchase covers if they were much, much less expensive. I am not asking for the price to be much lower so that I can buy covers.

But IF demiurge is going to offer direct purchase for covers (or any other digital commodity), they should do so at a price that is reasonable. If 5*s aren't meant to be purchased, then DON''T offer a purchase mechanism. Instead they have offered a purchase price that is absurd to the point of impossible. We players shouldn't just accept that price. In 5 months time when people are really struggling to build their 5*s via RNG, I don't want the devs to just point at direct buy and say "see, there is the solution for RNG troubles. Just buy the covers you need." That won't be a viable solution then and it isn't a viable solution now. The current direct buy is so overpriced that it shouldn't exist. 4*s were already overpriced and haven't gotten any better. the new 5* economy is even more punishing for players.

And we are still waiting for more info about a promised gameplay mode that should help 3* players get 4*s (a feature that was mentioned sometime around September 15, as part of an attempt to mollify the community after xfw v. cyclops, and about which we have subsequently heard nothing).

TxMoose

Vhailorx wrote:

In 5 months time when people are really struggling to build their 5*s via RNG...

my guess/hope is that in 5 months time there will be many more developments that keep my interest/engagement much like the developments over the last 5 months. really I think this is just a start but they really like to start slow with new things. and starting slow with the prevalence of 5*s is aok with me. we're at a time in the game similar to the very beginnings of the game when most were 2* players and 4*s were just trophies that sat on rosters. the difference here is the 5*s are way more than trophies for those who luck into a handful of covers for them (or conversely drop a crapload of $$).

PlasticCar

OneLastGambit wrote:

acescracked wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Not to change topic from this highly pleasant conversation but are there really gamers out there spending $100k on a mobile game?!

Whomever is spending that much money is a moron and has far more money than sense. I'm still shocked people drop the dollars for one stark (which is 1/6 the value of my car) so to read that people out there would be willing to spend that much further cements my opinion that modern gaming should be categorised as a mental disorder.

There are alot of people with alot of money in this world. So many people who tens of thousands of $$ really mean nothing to them.

Those people should not have that kind of money if they are throwing it away on mobile games, that could do some real good in the world.

I'm shocked by how wasteful the world is at times.

If a person has worked for their money, it is really their choice what to do with them. What you see as 'throwing away' can bring joy to the person using the money.

But I can understand that you neither drink, smoke, go to the movie, buying coffee, buy fast-food, go out for dinner, go to the circus, enjoy a concert, etc. Because you know, it is just a waste and you are throwing away your money, that could be used to do some real good in the world. And if you do any of the things I mentioned perhaps you should look in the mirror before you judge other people and how they spend their money for enjoyment and relaxation.

I hope you realize that if no-one used money on a mobile game, said game would not exist and you would not be able to play it for free (as it sounds like you do).

Zen808

Vhailorx wrote:

But IF demiurge is going to offer direct purchase for covers (or any other digital commodity), they should do so at a price that is reasonable. <SNIP> The current direct buy is so overpriced that it shouldn't exist. 4*s were already overpriced and haven't gotten any better. the new 5* economy is even more punishing for players.

For you, who is looking at using money as a way to build a character from the ground up, the price may seem unreasonable. For others, with, say, 4 covers in Jean Grey's Purple, they're looking at 2500HP as a very reasonable purchase. Don't assume that your choices are necessarily representative of the choices of the comminity as a whole, and certainly don't try to take something away from others based on your own narrow world view.

Vhailorx

As I said in the very first post in this thread, I respect the need for monetization. I don't begrudge demiurge the right to price their digital goods however they like, nor the right of players to make decisions about how to spend their money. That said, there definitely are mobile games that have engaged in very predatory behavior: using Skinner-box psychology (operant conditioning) and hidden or hard-to-find pricing information to effectively trick consumers into wasting huge amounts of money on a game.

To be clear, I am NOT accusing demiurge or D3 or MPQ of that sort of predatory behaviour. I have said in the past and continue to believe that demiurge's pricing model for MPQ is too aggressive and doesn't offer great value to the player. But there is a huge gap between aggressive pricing and abusive business practices. Demiurge/D3 may be guilty of the former (IMO) but I don't see evidence of the latter.

as for taking "something away from other based on [my] own narrow world view," I don't see a problem with stating my personal opinion. I recognize that not everyone agrees with me. I continue to think that I am right and am trying to convince people (clearly without success given the vitriol I have received in this thread) that my view is correct. If that is inappropriate that we should all avoid posting any opinions at all in the future, lest we "take something away from others based on [our] own narrow world view."

lukewin

Vhailorx wrote:

I continue to think that I am right and am trying to convince people (clearly without success given the vitriol I have received in this thread) that my view is correct. If that is inappropriate that we should all avoid posting any opinions at all in the future, lest we "take something away from others based on [our] own narrow world view."

When I post, I am also stating my opinions, but I am not trying to convince anyone that my view is correct, and inherently, that theirs is not. Everyone is entitled to have their own views and their justifications that their views are correct. It's when you try to prove that their view is incorrect because yours is correct, that I think, most of the vitriol comes from. If stating my justifications for my views, convinces someone else to change their view, that is their choice to change, not my desire to change them. I'd rather inform people so they can make their own choices, than try to get more people on my side of the argument.

I like hearing other people's opinions and get their insight, because there may be factors I haven't considered that after considering, make me change my mind. I'd prefer that their opinions and insight get conveyed in a rational, pleasant conversational tone, so that I don't lose the content because of the delivery.

Unknown

720 for one cover, lol ****,

TOTALLY ABSURB