720 CP?! Really?

Vhailorx

I have largely disengaged from this game over the past few weeks, dropping down to ddq only.

I only paid a bit of attention to the command point roll-out, and only just rostered my first 5*. So today I discovered that direct but for 5* covers costs 720 CP each.

That price has little direct effect on my as I don't buy covers directly, but IT still seems is absurd! Unless I am missing something, it's impossible to get more than 7 CP at any one time, and doing that costs $100 (us).

I respect the need for monetization, but too much is too much.

Edited for grammar/spelling etc.

Clintman

this post is a perfect example of how time could have been better spent reading about the roll out of CP than posting about it.

Mawtful

Vhailorx wrote:

It diesnt affect me directly as I wasn't going to buy covers myself in any event, but that is absurd!

Samuel Beckett just spun in his grave.

Malcrof

Vhailorx wrote:

720 CP?! Really?

Yes, really.

UNC_Samurai

Mawtful wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

It diesnt affect me directly as I wasn't going to buy covers myself in any event, but that is absurd!

Samuel Beckett just spun in his grave.

Nothing gets posted. Nobody writes, nobody spellchecks. It's awful.

GrumpySmurf1002

Cost for 20 players to whale a 5* at introduction. (~207 tokens each * 11400HP - 200HP (Daily Deal)) * 20 = 47,192,000HP = 2359.60 Starks = ~$235,960, +/- dependent on luck.

Cost for 20 players to whale a 5* with CP = 7200CP / 7 CP *$100 = $102,857.14 + token cost to acquire first 3 colors.

Pretty sure cutting the whale price in half is sufficiently costing the ability.

Vhailorx

I have to say I find the snark and condemnation directed at my original post kinda pathetic. Sure, it was poorly typed, and I was a bit late to the table with the 720CP news. But I think this is a worthy topic of discussion.

There is a pretty clear pattern of design from demiurge, and it's pretty player unfriendly. Between 4* covers costing 2x as much as 3*s, despite now being the core of "elder game" play, 3 useful rewards in a 300 item vault, legendary tokens replacing fixed cover rewards (extending the total time necessary to finish a 4* bench), legendary tokens only being in 40 packs, the **** anniversary/galactus token drop rates, and now command points costing this absurd amount for direct buy, the game is asking for more and more player investment (in either time or money or both as is typical for freemium games) and giving back less and less.

cyineedsn

Vhailorx wrote:

I have to say I find the snark and condemnation directed at my original post kinda pathetic. Sure, it was poorly typed, and I was a bit late to the table with the 720CP news. But I think this is a worthy topic of discussion.

There is a pretty clear pattern of design from demiurge, and it's pretty player unfriendly. Between 4* covers costing 2x as much as 3*s, despite now being the core of "elder game" play, 3 useful rewards in a 300 item vault, legendary tokens replacing fixed cover rewards (extending the total time necessary to finish a 4* bench), legendary tokens only being in 40 packs, the **** anniversary/galactus token drop rates, and now command points costing this absurd amount for direct buy, the game is asking for more and more player investment (in either time or money or both as is typical for freemium games) and giving back less and less.

It was poorly typed, so you received some poor responses . Snark aside, if you look at everything they have done with 5*s, this is actually pretty in line with how they have treated them so far. Which is, they really really really don't want 5*s to flood the game too fast, either by f2p players or by whales, hence the exorbitant cost even by whale standards.

That said, I agree with the entire second half of your post.

GurlBYE

Clintman wrote:

this post is a perfect example of how time could have been better spent reading about the roll out of CP than posting about it.

It's interesting that this post is so liked when even after reading it I find it no less ridiculous.

Worse off I'm sure most players don't read the forums...


it feels as if they know it doesn't belong in game and are kind of putting them there as a player challenge.

it'd be just as simple to reduce 5 stars power and make their cost not scale as ridiculously.

And this really hasn't slowed down upper players from getting the covers through whatever means they choose.

GurlBYE

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Cost for 20 players to whale a 5* at introduction. (~207 tokens each * 11400HP - 200HP (Daily Deal)) * 20 = 47,192,000HP = 2359.60 Starks = ~$235,960, +/- dependent on luck.

Cost for 20 players to whale a 5* with CP = 7200CP / 7 CP *$100 = $102,857.14 + token cost to acquire first 3 colors.

Pretty sure cutting the whale price in half is sufficiently costing the ability.

Why are you calculating the first for 20 players by the way.

it's not even a fair comparison and your second doesn't monetize the cost of getting those tokens, technically the second way is more expensive since it was brought on after the introduction of a 3rd five star.

The chances have gone from 10% 5 star to 3.33% for either of the 3 and 1.11% for 1 of each specific color.

simonsez

GurlBYE wrote:

It's interesting that this post is so liked when even after reading it I find it no less ridiculous.

"Even after reading it"?? So you thought it was just as ridiculous even before reading it... that's an awesome ironic reply to a post about how people don't read stuff here before posting.

GurlBYE

simonsez wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

It's interesting that this post is so liked when even after reading it I find it no less ridiculous.

"Even after reading it"?? So you thought it was just as ridiculous even before reading it... that's an awesome ironic reply to a post about how people don't read stuff here before posting.

No it's not ironic, it's your perspective on what you're reading.

it's comparison.

The ops response before reading. My response, having read it previously because I have engaged with the forums and read about them. Stating that my feelings were in the same area even though I haven't stated much besides the fact that i don't believe we need a currency solely for the progression to that tier. I can't even quite grasp the angle you were going for.

But that does feel like a mr.fantastic level reach.

Zen808

Vhailorx wrote:

I have to say I find the snark and condemnation directed at my original post kinda pathetic. Sure, it was poorly typed, and I was a bit late to the table with the 720CP news. But I think this is a worthy topic of discussion.

Can we instead have a discussion about how Ice gave a response, and the forum just took it without complaining? I mean, that like never happens. Ever. That's far more interesting to me.

simonsez

GurlBYE wrote:

The ops response before reading. My response, having read it previously because I have engaged with the forums and read about them. Stating that my feelings were in the same area even though I haven't stated much

GurlBYE wrote:

I can't even quite grasp the angle you were going for.

Ditto

GrumpySmurf1002

GurlBYE wrote:

Why are you calculating the first for 20 players by the way.

Because now if you buy a stark salary all 20 players in your alliance get 7CP. So for apples to apples, you have to compare at an alliance level. $100 buys 140CP, not just 7CP.

it's not even a fair comparison and your second doesn't monetize the cost of getting those tokens, technically the second way is more expensive since it was brought on after the introduction of a 3rd five star.

You're right odds changed. Which means harder to pull 13 of one 5* the first way, it's more than 207 tokens now. So the FIRST way is more expensive. The cost of getting the initial 3 covers is whatever it is (someone else can simulate it), but it's not going to make up a $100k+ difference.

aesthetocyst

Vhailorx wrote:

I have to say I find the snark and condemnation directed at my original post kinda pathetic. Sure, it was poorly typed, and I was a bit late to the table with the 720CP news. But I think this is a worthy topic of discussion.

The initial condemnation (and by that, I mean the post after yours) had nothing to do with the language arts aspects of the OP. It was purely informed by severity of the OP's uninformed state.

Vhailorx wrote:

There is a pretty clear pattern of design from demiurge...

Yeah, each new rarity is more rare than the last.

cosm0naut

I'm glad to see the forums are still such a kind and welcoming place.

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

I have to say I find the snark and condemnation directed at my original post kinda pathetic. Sure, it was poorly typed, and I was a bit late to the table with the 720CP news. But I think this is a worthy topic of discussion.

The initial condemnation (and by that, I mean the post after yours) had nothing to do with the language arts aspects of the OP. It was purely informed by severity of the OP's uninformed state.

Vhailorx wrote:

There is a pretty clear pattern of design from demiurge...

Yeah, each new rarity is more rare than the last.

But I don't even get that condemnation Aesth: my post wasn't a "I am so uniformed" post. It was a "I have been lagging behind, but have now caught up with the facts, and am shocked by the new facts" post. It wasn't that I was uninformed, it was that I had belatedly become informed. So why post some snark about how I should be informed? That's the point: I had become informed!

As for the increasing rarity issue, sure, each level is rarer than the last, but that's hardly the total story. first of all, players' time and money remain (more or less) constant, so a perpetually escalating cost in time and money is a terrible design choice for players. It also leads to serious splintering problems where vets end up playing a wildly different game from new players.

In most mmos there are several steps that are routinely taken to mitigate those problems. So when WOW releases a new expansion, players get to instantly level one or more new characters to the old maximum level. Same thing happened when destiny rolled out the taken king: everyone got a free boost of one character to level 25. These moves keep everyone playing in broadly the same playspace, and allow new and old players alike to experience the new content without (usually) completely negating the prior time investment of vets.

DDQ was a very solid attempt to do this (it rolled out just before the pace of 4* release really increased, and was a great way to help 2* players move into the 3* space). But demiurge hasn't done nearly enough to keep pace with their own elder game changes.

4* ddq was poorly implemented. original ddq was great for helping 2*s become 3*s. 4* ddq was great for rewarding those who already had half-built 4* rosters, while offering basically nothing to 3* only players. Additionally, the availability of 4* covers has not matched the increased size of of the 4* bench. new 4*s are released at the exact same rate as 3*s used to be released. but their covers are much harder to get and cost twice as much to buy. This is really tightening the screws on players to buy packs or play constantly. The 5* rollout has had a similar number of poorly implemented design decisions. Same with command points. and the 720CP price for 5* covers is ridiculous. Better to just not offer direct buy at all if the price is going to be so absurd.

alphabeta

cosm0naut wrote:

I'm glad to see the forums are still such a kind and welcoming place.

Welcome to the Internet - you must be very new to it if you expected anything different

Malcrof

Please keep the conversation constructive and civil, or the thread will be shut down. Thanks

aesthetocyst

Vhailorx wrote:

But I don't even get that condemnation Aesth: my post wasn't a "I am so uniformed" post.

Of course it wasn't. The uninformed are rarely aware of what they don't know. I don't know what you know, can only judge by the content of your post. In that post, you present only 1 way of acquiring CP, and it's the most extreme. Maybe you're aware of the others, we don't know. The idea presented, whether intended or not, is that Stark's for 7CP is IT, and if a person wants to 'buy' a 5*, it'll cost'em 103 Starks ($10,300).

And they will have 1CP in change!

Vhailorx wrote:

Same with command points ... the 720CP price for 5* covers is ridiculous. Better to just not offer direct buy at all if the price is going to be so absurd.

There are several items for sale in the game that the devs have been very clear on in regards to pricing. They offer the option so if a person REALLY wants to go there, they can. But it's not the primary avenue for mass acquisition.

They even specifically stated that buying 5*s directly with CPs would be VERY expensive. But if a player on the cutting edge has no other use for CPs / Legendary tokens, then those CPs will pile up, and in time the direct purchase option becomes viable. But no, it's not intended to be an easily exercised option. It does give players who are that advanced SOMETHING to do with those CPs ... pile them up.

It's not terribly exciting, but this is the initial state. Give the situation some room to develop before throwing eggs, eh?

... and the PRIMARY means of obtaining 5s is through Legendary tokens. With a 10% pull rate, a random 5* will 'cost' you 250CPs (10 Legendary tokens).

Considering all the other CP streams you omitted, how long do you think it takes a player to pile 720 of them? In a week, I've gone through 88 of them, only 20 of them were the initial freebies.

.. more than most? Maybe? (Time for a poll!) .... but I know others who have acquired far more.