CP reward node in PVE

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  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    Quebbster wrote:
    It's very possible to get the Command Point on the first play of the node if you get lucky. It has happened to me multiple times already.
    If you absolutely have to have every Command Point from PvE... yeah, some grinding will probably be required. Or you could just play as usual and be happy when you get the extra cool reward that wasn't there before.
    How would you feel if node points were random? You probably wouldn't be too cool with it. But there's not a whole lot of difference between "The two of us both grinded this fully-charged node 6 times, but he got 1200 points and I only got 900" and "The two of us both grinded this fully-charged node 6 times, but he got a cp and 500 iso, and I only got a crit boost and 100 iso"
    There's absolutely a difference since event points are directly tied to the event structure (progression and placement) while node rewards are not. Useful absolutely, but the whole purpose of event points is to measure event performance. Rewards is just a nice freebie... and a way of keeping us hooked.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    there is talk in another thread that sounds like the pve node cps are temporary like ddq cps. if true, we don't have to worry about it much longer. after grinding multiple nodes to 1 over the weekend and only being awarded 1 of the 4 prizes, I do think there is a major flaw in their RNG. you should almost NEVER pull the reward same slot 7 and 8 times in a row. happened on consecutive days. anyone tell me the odds of that?? if their RNG wasn't so broken, I don't think there would be this much 'concern' (i.e. complaining). I've never paid any attn. to the 4 rewards because they weren't worth that much attention, but a cp is, so now there's a magnifying glass on it.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    TxMoose wrote:
    there is talk in another thread that sounds like the pve node cps are temporary like ddq cps. if true, we don't have to worry about it much longer. after grinding multiple nodes to 1 over the weekend and only being awarded 1 of the 4 prizes, I do think there is a major flaw in their RNG. you should almost NEVER pull the reward same slot 7 and 8 times in a row. happened on consecutive days. anyone tell me the odds of that?? if their RNG wasn't so broken, I don't think there would be this much 'concern' (i.e. complaining). I've never paid any attn. to the 4 rewards because they weren't worth that much attention, but a cp is, so now there's a magnifying glass on it.


    Someone did track this to check it as you should receive a node reward 50% of the time that you complete the node (can't find the blasted post - if someone can post it please) and from his/her tracking over the course of about 30 matches or so their results did show that at almost 50% of the time they receive the node reward and 50% of the time they got 20iso.

    I have to admit for 3 of the CP nodes I ground them to 1 and then a couple more matches after that before I got the reward and for some others got the CP first time. I do think they should change it so you can only get 20iso AFTER you have earned the node rewards but as for the question of broken RNG... to paraphrase a wise philosopher "I believe it's working as intended"
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    TxMoose wrote:
    there is talk in another thread that sounds like the pve node cps are temporary like ddq cps. if true, we don't have to worry about it much longer. after grinding multiple nodes to 1 over the weekend and only being awarded 1 of the 4 prizes, I do think there is a major flaw in their RNG. you should almost NEVER pull the reward same slot 7 and 8 times in a row. happened on consecutive days. anyone tell me the odds of that?? if their RNG wasn't so broken, I don't think there would be this much 'concern' (i.e. complaining). I've never paid any attn. to the 4 rewards because they weren't worth that much attention, but a cp is, so now there's a magnifying glass on it.
    The PvE node CPs and the PvP placement CPs weren't mentioned in the CP promotion announcement, so I suspect they are here to stay. Could be wrong though.
  • rkd80
    rkd80 Posts: 376
    Interesting thread, there is definitely some element of "too much work for little reward" but the overall problem I think is the same frustration that many people have with MPQ in general and that is 'randomness'. It is now manifesting itself again in the form of node rewards, but it is the same issue with legendary tokens, recruit tokens and almost anything that seems to reward some people and screw others. That is why DDQ is loved, there are guarantees and people like guarantees.

    However the randomness is something the developers purposely implemented and it will not be removed any time soon, in fact it might negatively impact the game and I say that while being on the wrong of RNGesus many times.

    Perhaps the issue is not to just give people CP rewards, which are actually quite valuable, but rather improve the overall effort to reward ratio.

    For starters, the crit boost being everywhere is silly and not reflective of the drain on time and health packs. My personal recommendation would be to change the node rewards based on their difficulty. So the first trivial goon nodes can easily give crit boost, sure thing.

    However the last nodes where scaling is through the roof should give very reasonable awards. Anything from recruit tokens to +20% damage boosts to +all AP boosts. Keep the randomness, because people will have to choose if it is worth the sacrifice. On the same note if you get no reward then trivial nodes should award +20 or something paltry, however once again, hard nodes in the event of no reward should give a reward scaled to the effort! If you just took out lvl 260-320 3* the appropriate worst case prize should be close to the damage received - which is hard to measure precisely but certainly way more than 20 iso.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just did an off the cuff calculation. First playthrough you have a 25% chance of getting the command point. Once you have one reward the chance drops to 16,6% (50% chance for 20 ISO, 50% chance for one of three rewards) though. It rises back to 25% once a second reward has been claimed, and then 50% chance once the three other rewards are claimed.
    I think that means those looking for easy command points are best off just playing the relevant nodes once and hoping for the best.

    Started a thread about it in Theories and Statistics if anyone wants to discuss the number crunching.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    Just did an off the cuff calculation. First playthrough you have a 25% chance of getting the command point. Once you have one reward the chance drops to 16,6% (50% chance for 20 ISO, 50% chance for one of three rewards) though. It rises back to 25% once a second reward has been claimed, and then 50% chance once the three other rewards are claimed.
    I think that means those looking for easy command points are best off just playing the relevant nodes once and hoping for the best.

    Started a thread about it in Theories and Statistics if anyone wants to discuss the number crunching.
    that is not my understanding of how those work. I remember at one point someone explained it as 4 reward slots that are pulled randomly every time. if you've already pulled the set reward for the slot you pul, it defaults to 20 iso. so, going by that, every time you play the node, you should have 25% chance at it, regardless of what else is pulled. to me that would be much easier to code than what you described, but who knows - unless ice or someone wants to confirm, we are left guessing. regardless of how its constructed, you should never get 20 iso 6 or 7X in a row when only 1 of 4 rewards have been given and 3 of 4 are still available.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    There's absolutely a difference since event points are directly tied to the event structure (progression and placement) while node rewards are not. Useful absolutely, but the whole purpose of event points is to measure event performance. Rewards is just a nice freebie... and a way of keeping us hooked.
    But "event performace" is directly tied to rewards. It IS the same thing, just one step removed. And rewards aren't a freebie... it's the reason we're playing. How long would you be playing if this were strictly a match3 game with no rewards? About 2 minutes?
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    TxMoose wrote:
    that is not my understanding of how those work. I remember at one point someone explained it as 4 reward slots that are pulled randomly every time. if you've already pulled the set reward for the slot you pul, it defaults to 20 iso.
    This is not correct. Queb and OLG have described it correctly.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    TxMoose wrote:
    that is not my understanding of how those work. I remember at one point someone explained it as 4 reward slots that are pulled randomly every time. if you've already pulled the set reward for the slot you pul, it defaults to 20 iso.
    This is not correct. Queb and OLG have described it correctly.
    ok, then the odds of 20 iso 6 or 7X in a row when there's still are 3 of 4 awards still there - odds of that are higher than I thought if that's the case. regardless, doesn't make it less frustrating.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    TxMoose wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    TxMoose wrote:
    that is not my understanding of how those work. I remember at one point someone explained it as 4 reward slots that are pulled randomly every time. if you've already pulled the set reward for the slot you pul, it defaults to 20 iso.
    This is not correct. Queb and OLG have described it correctly.
    ok, then the odds of 20 iso 6 or 7X in a row when there's still are 3 of 4 awards still there - odds of that are higher than I thought if that's the case. regardless, doesn't make it less frustrating.


    The odds of drawing 20iso is always 50% (or thereabouts) if your data collection suggests otherwise then it would seem you haven't collected data for long enough. Wish I could find the previous post who did track this data as it perfectly showed this happening (much to the posters surprise as they were expecting to find the result favouring 20iso as much as we do). You will always have a 50% chance of drawing 20iso and a 50% chance of drawing any one of the 4 node rewards.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    Wish I could find the previous post who did track this data as it perfectly showed this happening
    viewtopic.php?style=1&f=7&t=35055#p442032
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    yeah, if its a head/tails thing, you can definitely have runs of many in a row. that explains a lot. working as intended...move along lol.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    Wish I could find the previous post who did track this data as it perfectly showed this happening
    viewtopic.php?style=1&f=7&t=35055#p442032

    That's the one ^^^^ Thanks for that.

    A misunderstanding/misuse of odds is often a human failing, in particular when regards to RNG. Hell I work in statistics and every now and then some results bamboozle me.
  • elusive
    elusive Posts: 261 Mover and Shaker
    It's not completely related to the change you're talking about, but I wish they wouldn't hide the command points behind the same four star every single day of the event. Kingpin's one of the only ones I'm missing and I've missed out on quite a bit now because of it.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    A misunderstanding/misuse of odds is often a human failing
    Yep, that's why casinos make so much money. If everyone understood statistics and probability, those places wouldn't exist.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    A misunderstanding/misuse of odds is often a human failing
    Yep, that's why casinos make so much money. If everyone understood statistics and probability, those places wouldn't exist.

    Very true.


    I think we can add a new acronym to our list of acronyms.... WAI = Working as Intended

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