How to win me back (with command points)!

Unknown

Okay, let me just say this. Command points, as implemented are about as useless as legendary tokens currently are. They do nothing to bring any fresh excitement in for 3-4* transitioning players like me, who either don't want to or can't dedicate their entire lives to MPQ.

So I propose that players be allowed to trade in unwanted covers for command points with the following trade in values.

100 ISO for a 1* cover (no change)
1 cp OR 250 ISO for a 2* cover
3 cp OR 500 ISO for a 3* cover
6 cp for 1000 ISO 4* cover
15 cp OR <regular value> for a 5* cover

[EDIT]: Clarified values so it's clear I meant for cpts to be offered as an option, alongside ISO, so players can choose what they want

Add a 3* rare token at 10 command points
Legendary tokens cost 25 command points

I kind of figured command points would be an underwhelming addition to the game (got a little excited for them on the chance that they were implemented in the way stated above, but of course they're not - never are in this game).

I've stopped logging into the game, and generally stopped checking the forums on any regular basis (mostly just occasionally to see any potential updates on whatever their new feature is that's supposed to help with transitions). This post is aimed at the devs to tell them what to do if they want to bring back players like me who want a reason to play the game at all, and occasionally play events in earnest. The whole artificial scarcity thing just doesn't cut it, and picking between that and finding something else to do, I'll keep choosing to do the latter.

/endpost

/start reaction
of uberwhales and elitist grinders who'll proceed to pick apart my post and complain about how it erodes the artificial status they've achieved in the game through fake competition using overpowered rosters that make it easier for them to compete than those below them, and pyramid-scheme cashflow of hero points, ISO, and covers for those at the top of the ladder, while pretending it's skill or dedication that allows them to stay at the top off the backs of the points generated by the players underneath them, who ensure an easy path for their continuing 4* and 5* progression.

[UPDATE]: My trailing note was actually kind of a premonition meant to stave off some of the inevitable hate anytime anyone suggests anything that improves the game experience for people in general instead of just those at the top, and remind them of how they sound to the rest of us. My hope was that it would encourage people to think before they post to help keep responses civil, instead of it devolving the way things always seem to here into "here's my suggestion" <-> "shut up you lazy, worthless, entitled, noob". Obviously, it didn't work, and ironically my prediction came to pass as usual. The most upped post in this thread? Not one that actually addresses the issue, but one looking for an excuse to ignore what I said, as the usual suspects got obsessed with that one statement at the end as an excuse to derail the thread. It's okay to level endless scorn on those of us who want MPQ to support a wider range of players, but reflect your statements back to you in a lens that illustrates how they make you appear and suddenly it's passive aggressive? I was simply seeking to avoid unnecessary arguing with the trolls. Hence why I said my comments were intended primarily for the devs, if they were reading, but I also felt general discussion was preferable so players with similar or alternate ideas on how to encourage a more player-friendly game experience for all parties could weigh in. Just shouting at people and saying "stop being lazy", "play the game how we want you to" doesn't really address the issue. There are other games that support both casual/semi-casual and hardcore grinders. It really doesn't have to be an either/or, no matter how much you shout at anyone who disagrees with you until they abandon the game, and the forums.

There's a substantial amount of players, past and present, who would like more casual options to playing MPQ, the ability to progress without having to play every.single.event (and place), and the ability to come and go in a manner that better fits their lifestyle. It's clear I misjudged its effectiveness, and I apologize to anyone who's made genuine efforts to consider and discuss my suggestion beyond "I feel less shiny if everyone else get options to be shiny too".

simonsez

This would've been a really good post, except for no reason, you had to go and tag it with the usual passive-aggressive **** whining that we would've expected in the first place.

Stony

simonsez wrote:

This would've been a really good post, except for no reason, you had to go and tag it with the usual passive-aggressive tinykitty whining that we would've expected in the first place.

Agreed. Really wish they'd bring back negative rep

Crowl

The main problem with your suggestion is that everyone would then end up with even less iso, so it would probably make more sense to give iso for 1* and 2* (up it to 250/500) and then give cp for selling 3/4/5 covers.

They seriously do need to introduce a 3* or better token though.

TxMoose

actually ice said something like that was originally intended but conflicted with another upcoming feature, so instead of it being tied to cover sales, they looked at average cover sales and how they increased in rarity and quantity over time and they put the equivalent cps that we would have gotten from cover sales into the daily resupply list. basically ending up less for the most active players and much more than a more casual player would have gotten. not a fan of equalizing everything to the mean, but he did address it:

IceIX wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

ICEIX
I didn't see this question answered anywhere but will unwanted 4 or 5 * covers be able to be sold for CP under the new system?

Not at launch, no. Originally, all covers 2*+ were going to have a chance to proc CP on sale, but it was actively messing with the development of another feature. As a response to that, we figured out about how much players would be earning from cover sales and placed that into Daily Rewards instead. So it shifted those sale reward procs from a statistical amount for users to something based on length of play. So no, but that's why Daily Rewards give CP instead.

and after a follow up question:

IceIX wrote:

SaintofKi11ers wrote:

I don't mean to be a jerk, but that's a **** answer. How exactly are you determining "how much players would be earning through cover sales"?

Pretty easily. We can see how many covers players of all stripes sell, which tends to correlate very closely with overall play time. Meaning that the longer you're playing, the more and higher end covers you're selling. That was already in our math to figure out how high to make the proc rate without flooding the game with CP anyway. So it's a pretty simple step to ramp up the CP allowance over days played through Daily Rewards to come very close to that statistical curve.

edit: I said 'something like that' in my post but that's somewhat misleading. ice said the plan was to get random drops of cps when selling covers based on a %. obviously not nearly the rate THD proposed.

Ruinate

theHappyDance wrote:

pretending it's skill

I have never seen this. It's a match-3 game, ffs. Skill cap is not that high.

slidecage

theHappyDance wrote:

Okay, let me just say this. Command points, as implemented are about as useless as legendary tokens currently are. They do nothing to bring any fresh excitement in for 3-4* transitioning players like me, who either don't want to or can't dedicate their entire lives to MPQ.

So I propose that players be allowed to trade in unwanted covers for command points with the following trade in values.

100 ISO for a 1* cover (no change)
1 pt for a 2* v
3 for a 3* cover
6 for a 4* cover
15 for a 5* cover

Add a 3* rare token at 10 command points
Legendary tokens cost 25 command points

I kind of figured command points would be an underwhelming addition to the game (got a little excited for them on the chance that they were implemented in the way stated above, but of course they're not - never are in this game).

I've stopped logging into the game, and generally stopped checking the forums on any regular basis (mostly just occasionally to see any potential updates on whatever their new feature is that's supposed to help with transitions). This post is aimed at the devs to tell them what to do if they want to bring back players like me who want a reason to play the game at all, and occasionally play events in earnest. The whole artificial scarcity thing just doesn't cut it, and picking between that and finding something else to do, I'll keep choosing to do the latter.

/endpost

/start reaction
of uberwhales and elitist grinders who'll proceed to pick apart my post and complain about how it erodes the artificial status they've achieved in the game through fake competition using overpowered rosters that make it easier for them to compete than those below them, and pyramid-scheme cashflow of hero points, ISO, and covers for those at the top of the ladder, while pretending it's skill or dedication that allows them to stay at the top off the backs of the points generated by the players underneath them, who ensure an easy path for their continuing 4* and 5* progression.

IF they ever did it
1 star no change
2 star cover no change
3 star cover 1 CP
4 star cover 4 CP
5 star cover 10 cp

your never going to see a 2 star getting 1 CP. Everyone would have their 4 star max in a month.

not sure how you can say underwhelming when 1 we have no clue how many pts are going to be out there... I was expecting 25 PER SEASON maybe 50 (be really pushing it)

looks like 25 pts per season wouldnt be out of the question so right in line what i though was going to be handed out..

gravel

theHappyDance wrote:

...
I've stopped logging into the game

I'm not a whale by any stretch of the imagination, but how should they help you transition if you don't play?

Punisher5784

Crowl wrote:

They seriously do need to introduce a 3* or better token though.

They don't need to introduce a 3* token, they need to throw all the 2*'s onto the Standard Tokens with higher odds and make the Heroic token 3* with increased 4* odds. BAM!

slidecage

gravel wrote:

theHappyDance wrote:

...
I've stopped logging into the game

I'm not a whale by any stretch of the imagination, but how should they help you transition if you don't play?

it helps you sleep better at night, Had so many werid dreams after playing this game too long.. so maybe they stopped to have better dreams

Honu141

theHappyDance wrote:

stay at the top off the backs of the points generated by the players underneath them

I realize that this is just a small part of your post, but one that needed correcting. True that points are generated through competition between players at all levels. Up to a certain point, it's a fairly level playing field. But as you get north of 1000, players aren't hitting those underneath them. That's just a losing proposition. If you win, you may get a few points. If you lose, it's a chunk! So contrary to your statement, I assert that it's the high-end players that are helping the players underneath them by providing higher point targets. Without the high-end players and front-runners, there wouldn't be points available in a slice.

SnowcaTT

Just opened the haul I pulled in over last two weeks or so, 88 standards, 32 heroics + 1 ten pack.

NO USEFUL COVERS IN THERE - zero 4*'s (I've been fully 3* covered for months).

If the 3*'s were even a miserly zero CP's and the 4*'s were five CP's - I would have had 12 CP's to show for those 42 heroic tokens. Not terrible! Half way to a Legendary Token!

Instead, it's just another "Sigh...heroics are worthless...."

mrflopwelligan

Honu141 wrote:

I assert that it's the high-end players that are helping the players underneath them by providing higher point targets. Without the high-end players and front-runners, there wouldn't be points available in a slice.

I would go one step further and simply say that it's a game and that's how games work. There are winners and there are losers. It's like that in every game. I hope I'm not sounding condescending or rude to anyone - I really don't mean to be, but it's just the facts.

People can talk about brackets, slices, retaliation points. But at the end of the day, if I challenge a 4 star 270 team with my 3 star team. I'm going to lose. I don't expect the bigger guys to pull their punches or for me to get one extra turn or whatever.

If I were to challenge Usain Bolt to a foot race, I would lose. He's better than me. Period.

If I want to win, then I have to put in the time, grind, spend HP, shield hop, practice, fail, get back up and build a better team.

GrumpySmurf1002

theHappyDance wrote:

100 ISO for a 1* cover (no change)
1 pt for a 2* v
3 for a 3* cover
6 for a 4* cover
15 for a 5* cover

Since I have the data, I figured I'd look at it. For these conversion rates, I'd have 2827 + 1213*3 = 6466 pts this time next year (assuming 2016 is like 2015). I've earned 230 4* so far this year, of which 155 I'm now maxed in that color. But let's assume that's offset by new releases, so maybe half usable. That's another 115 * 6 = 690.

So 7156 in 10 months. Plus, I don't play LRs much (which I'm told is a nice source of 2*), not really competitive in PvE except for new releases, and have a bunch of hoarded event tokens.

While I wouldn't complain about being able to max a 5* in 10 months, that seems like an awfully aggressive timeline for someone who isn't even in the elite class of players.

Edit: Just to add...they established a rate of around 25 ComPs per week for someone who works a bit harder than I. That's about 1000 pts in the equivalent 10 month period. So you're asking that they implement a system that septuples their original plan. And seem disappointed that they didn't.

firethorne

mrflopwelligan wrote:

If I were to challenge Usain Bolt to a foot race, I would lose. He's better than me. Period.

If I want to win, then I have to put in the time, grind, spend HP, shield hop, practice, fail, get back up and build a better team.

But, Usain Bolt is paid to do what he does. Despite the fact they are referred to as Olympic "games" they are still his job. This is a mobile phone game about people who fly, shoot lasers out of their eyes, or shapeshift. It is the literal embodiment of a power fantasy. People are here to have fun, not to put hours of effort to rival Olympic athletes. When a game becomes more about being ultra competitive than about being fun, it can start to be viewed as toxic and impenetrable. It has been a bit of a problem for games like dota, and I'm seeing some similar themes here.

acescracked

Thehappydance is very unhappy when people have nice things.

Haters gonna hate

Dayv

theHappyDance wrote:

/start reaction
of uberwhales and elitist grinders who'll proceed to pick apart my post and complain about how it erodes the artificial status they've achieved in the game through fake competition using overpowered rosters that make it easier for them to compete than those below them, and pyramid-scheme cashflow of hero points, ISO, and covers for those at the top of the ladder, while pretending it's skill or dedication that allows them to stay at the top off the backs of the points generated by the players underneath them, who ensure an easy path for their continuing 4* and 5* progression.

That is some really first rate passive-aggression. Have you considered getting your account name updated to TheUnhappyDance?

Unknown

I mean the poster's plan is silly and way too generous but the amount of butthurt elitist apologists that pop up anytime any person has a complaint is crazy. It's ironic, these people keep stating that complainers are ruining the game/forums when it is their own diatribes that are truly becoming tired and old.

fmftint

Please don't remove Iso from cover sales. Selling covers is a huge iso source

XandorXerxes

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

theHappyDance wrote:

100 ISO for a 1* cover (no change)
1 pt for a 2* v
3 for a 3* cover
6 for a 4* cover
15 for a 5* cover

Since I have the data, I figured I'd look at it. For these conversion rates, I'd have 2827 + 1213*3 = 6466 pts this time next year (assuming 2016 is like 2015). I've earned 230 4* so far this year, of which 155 I'm now maxed in that color. But let's assume that's offset by new releases, so maybe half usable. That's another 115 * 6 = 690.

So 7156 in 10 months. Plus, I don't play LRs much (which I'm told is a nice source of 2*), not really competitive in PvE except for new releases, and have a bunch of hoarded event tokens.

While I wouldn't complain about being able to max a 5* in 10 months, that seems like an awfully aggressive timeline for someone who isn't even in the elite class of players.

Edit: Just to add...they established a rate of around 25 ComPs per week for someone who works a bit harder than I. That's about 1000 pts in the equivalent 10 month period. So you're asking that they implement a system that septuples their original plan. And seem disappointed that they didn't.

Are your cover numbers right? If you've earned 230 4* covers this year, you're in an elite class of players. Out of curiosity - why is 10 months way too soon when you're selling every 3* you earn? It's not like you're starting from scratch. If you're someone who can earn almost four 4*s every 5 days, why is 10 months too short to progress? 10-months earning four 4*s every 5 days is a crazy pace.

SnowcaTT wrote:

Just opened the haul I pulled in over last two weeks or so, 88 standards, 32 heroics + 1 ten pack.

NO USEFUL COVERS IN THERE - zero 4*'s (I've been fully 3* covered for months).

If the 3*'s were even a miserly zero CP's and the 4*'s were five CP's - I would have had 12 CP's to show for those 42 heroic tokens. Not terrible! Half way to a Legendary Token!

Instead, it's just another "Sigh...heroics are worthless...."

I just opened 106 tacos. Zero 4* rewards. Odds of that happening? 11%. Two seasons ago I opened four 10-packs. No 4*s. I'm hoping someone else is getting the better end of my luck, but people like me are why real progress needs to exist with guaranteed rewards.

Kheiron

Muggedzealot wrote:

I mean the poster's plan is silly and way too generous but the amount of butthurt elitist apologists that pop up anytime any person has a complaint is crazy. It's ironic, these people keep stating that complainers are ruining the game/forums when it is their own diatribes that are truly becoming tired and old.

I wasn't aware that having a counterpoint or not thinking every single thing that happens in the game needs to be incessantly ripped apart makes you a butthurt elitist, but, for the record, I'm definitely not elitist, and last time I checked my butt wasn't hurting, so I guess I can comment on this.

I personally hate when people complain about the same thing over and over. Especially when it's the same group of people constantly complaining about every single aspect of the game. It's a match 3 puzzle game. To me, nothing that happens on here (or any game) is that serious to get up in arms about. And it's not like there isn't a bevy of other match-3 games to play if you don't like this one. I wouldn't keep playing a game or talking about it if it made me as miserable as this one makes some people. Life's too short to get so upset about a game all the time.

As for the original post, 1 point for a 2 star cover seems way too generous, at least at the moment, since getting 2* covers is extremely easy. It also hasn't even been 24 hours since the system has been implemented. I know the Internet demands instant gratification, but, maybe give the system a chance to play out and give them time to adjust it before we come to a definitive conclusion about it? It might turn out to be completely underwhelming, but since it's not even a day old, I'm willing to give it some time to see how it works first.