I want to talk about how we get 5*s

TxMoose

sry. I'm slow sometimes and didn't get the 1000 iso reference. totally get it now. and I do think it needs to reset every season. save as many as you like, but not resetting ever would be a bad mechanic I think.

spccrain

I actually love the fact that they are so hard to obtain. Imo they should remove the legendary token when you buy a 40pk which would remove the chance of buying one altogether. Yeah it's all luck but play another mobile f2p game and you'll notice that they are all that way. I have yet to get a 5* and it'll probably be another year before I have one covered but with their power it should be near impossible to get them.

Raffoon

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

simonsez wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

But consider the opposite - what about someone who pulls every good cover out and only has 1,000 ISO rewards left in there.

I wouldn't have 1,000 ISO awards in there. Just 5s and wild card 4s.
If you allow resets, then this is no improvement. Luck is still going to completely skew how many covers each individual gets.

yeah, if an LT vault has iso, it better be overwhelming, like 50K or something. I'd still almost rather have a cover. they put a 4* marker on the 10K iso in the taco vault - if that's what they think, I'd just assume not have any iso in there at all.

love the small vault idea though. we have just the right number now of characters where one of each cover of everybody just about equals the pull rate of the current LTs. of course that will change over time and be skewed as soon as they add the 3rd 5* in the mix. still love the idea. if they make uneven numbers, they have to make sure one of each color for each character is at least available.

Come on guys. I'm saying that a useless 4* cover is the same thing as a 1,000 ISO reward. That's the whole point. If you make a vault that must be cleared before it resets then you would have to also create a new 4* wild card token, otherwise you have a vault filled with 1,000 ISO rewards that no one wants, and doesn't play for.

So I'm assuming that this mythical wild card token won't ever exist, here is what I think we should have:

A vault containing one of each 5* cover, and nine random 4* covers for each 5* cover in there. The vault cannot be reset by the player. Only legendary tokens can be used in this vault (i.e. they can't be bought outside of the current 40-pack method). The vault resets itself every season. The vault does not reset when emptied.

I think this still presents a lot of issues, though. A season long vault leaves a big opportunity to get stuck with covers you don't want, which is frustrating.

If a vault is the answer, I still like one that resets on a short time frame like 1-3 days. The downside of course is that the only way to take full advantage of that is to hoard tokens.

Rather than a vault, what if there were a bar called "cosmic energy" that filled up on the legendary token screen every time you used a token. The more cosmic energy you have, the higher your chances of a 5*. When you do finally get a 5* your cosmic energy depletes. This would keep the random element, but eliminate cases where people are unable to progress at all due to bad luck.

PeterGibbons316

Raffoon wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

So I'm assuming that this mythical wild card token won't ever exist, here is what I think we should have:

A vault containing one of each 5* cover, and nine random 4* covers for each 5* cover in there. The vault cannot be reset by the player. Only legendary tokens can be used in this vault (i.e. they can't be bought outside of the current 40-pack method). The vault resets itself every season. The vault does not reset when emptied.

I think this still presents a lot of issues, though. A season long vault leaves a big opportunity to get stuck with covers you don't want, which is frustrating.

If a vault is the answer, I still like one that resets on a short time frame like 1-3 days. The downside of course is that the only way to take full advantage of that is to hoard tokens.

Rather than a vault, what if there were a bar called "cosmic energy" that filled up on the legendary token screen every time you used a token. The more cosmic energy you have, the higher your chances of a 5*. When you do finally get a 5* your cosmic energy depletes. This would keep the random element, but eliminate cases where people are unable to progress at all due to bad luck.

The reason I say every season is because it makes it harder to whale 5* characters. The soonest you would be able to do it would be 5 seasons after a character release, and that seems like a good thing to me. If you made it 3 days, then within 2 weeks someone could have every 5* character in the game fully covered - guaranteed.

simonsez

BlackSheep101 wrote:

I think they're referring to unneeded 4* covers as 1000 iso awards...

Every post I've mentioned wildcard 4*s. Unless you're whaling it up, there'd be no such thing as an unneeded cover.

Philly79

Just want to throw my findings in here... I have opened roughly 30 tokens and I have one SS cover (black ), while there are others players out there that have 20 covers for SS....yes you read correctly, 20 SS covers. One is fully covered and the other one (yes 2 Silver Surfers on the roster) is 223. Now this is not a hacked account as the player is a member of a respected alliance *cough* *crewsaders* *cough* but for the life of me I cannot fathom how this player amassed this amount of covers while most people have 1, and a lot of people have none. I counted over 50 covers total in this one alliance so I am not sure if they know something we don't or what the case is but I would love that type of luck and/ or $.

BlackSheep101

simonsez wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

I think they're referring to unneeded 4* covers as 1000 iso awards...

Every post I've mentioned wildcard 4*s. Unless you're whaling it up, there'd be no such thing as an unneeded cover.

I understood your points. I was attempting to derail a side discussion about including ISO rewards in a prospective vault based on a misunderstanding of the main thread.

Unknown

I do not like distributed by luck, but the circumstances of the game does not leave another alternative. Release the 5 * the game ends because for some people, the whales, will only play with the 5 * and will rule out any other character. Loss also money for devs. In addition, a 5 * is very difficult to be defeated unless the other 5 *. Even if 2k PVP to achieve the 5 * still occur this problem. The way in luck is terrible, but no other way. Or still that way or we will have two alternatives: game over or separate people with 5 * in another championship.

TxMoose

Philly79 wrote:

Just want to throw my findings in here... I have opened roughly 30 tokens and I have one SS cover (black ), while there are others players out there that have 20 covers for SS....yes you read correctly, 20 SS covers. One is fully covered and the other one (yes 2 Silver Surfers on the roster) is 223. Now this is not a hacked account as the player is a member of a respected alliance *cough* *crewsaders* *cough* but for the life of me I cannot fathom how this player amassed this amount of covers while most people have 1, and a lot of people have none. I counted over 50 covers total in this one alliance so I am not sure if they know something we don't or what the case is but I would love that type of luck and/ or $.

my guess is they were attempting to whale OML and kept getting SS pulls.

Eddiemon

I don't think it matters in the long run.

In the short run people will have advantages based on RNG, but look at the game's history. As power creep occurs from 3* to 4* to 5* each tier has been made more available/accessible.

So for now it's hard to get but as they add more 5*s they will up the odds or make new ways to acquire them.

Philly79

TxMoose wrote:

Philly79 wrote:

Just want to throw my findings in here... I have opened roughly 30 tokens and I have one SS cover (black ), while there are others players out there that have 20 covers for SS....yes you read correctly, 20 SS covers. One is fully covered and the other one (yes 2 Silver Surfers on the roster) is 223. Now this is not a hacked account as the player is a member of a respected alliance *cough* *crewsaders* *cough* but for the life of me I cannot fathom how this player amassed this amount of covers while most people have 1, and a lot of people have none. I counted over 50 covers total in this one alliance so I am not sure if they know something we don't or what the case is but I would love that type of luck and/ or $.

my guess is they were attempting to whale OML and kept getting SS pulls.

Ah yes, good theory...that would totally make sense

ShadowX1984

My biggest issue is not about the endgame but what happens to the 3* or even 2* players who've scored Legendary tokens through PVE progression and happen to open a SS or OML. They have a completely different experience through the entire rest of their game, able to get PVP wins at their transition level a lot faster and defend better than everyone else just slogging through 3* development., while at the same time their scaling is completely off-kilter in PVE. I'm okay with a game that has a powerful, difficult to achieve, and even random endgame factor, but I've never seen a game where you could stumble on that endgame factor in the mid- or even early-game and just use it right away.

PeterGibbons316

ShadowX1984 wrote:

My biggest issue is not about the endgame but what happens to the 3* or even 2* players who've scored Legendary tokens through PVE progression and happen to open a SS or OML. They have a completely different experience through the entire rest of their game, able to get PVP wins at their transition level a lot faster and defend better than everyone else just slogging through 3* development., while at the same time their scaling is completely off-kilter in PVE. I'm okay with a game that has a powerful, difficult to achieve, and even random endgame factor, but I've never seen a game where you could stumble on that endgame factor in the mid- or even early-game and just use it right away.

They can sell it for 2k ISO, that's quite a bit of ISO for someone working through 2* characters.

edit: Don't know why I thought 5*s could be sold for more than 2k......updated.

Unknown

ShadowX1984 wrote:

My biggest issue is not about the endgame but what happens to the 3* or even 2* players who've scored Legendary tokens through PVE progression and happen to open a SS or OML. They have a completely different experience through the entire rest of their game, able to get PVP wins at their transition level a lot faster and defend better than everyone else just slogging through 3* development., while at the same time their scaling is completely off-kilter in PVE. I'm okay with a game that has a powerful, difficult to achieve, and even random endgame factor, but I've never seen a game where you could stumble on that endgame factor in the mid- or even early-game and just use it right away.

The solution is to sell the 5 *. Level 3 * and 2 * are not prepared to 5 *. I put in my 5 * ISO to 270 and stop to not muddle my game.

Philly79

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

ShadowX1984 wrote:

My biggest issue is not about the endgame but what happens to the 3* or even 2* players who've scored Legendary tokens through PVE progression and happen to open a SS or OML. They have a completely different experience through the entire rest of their game, able to get PVP wins at their transition level a lot faster and defend better than everyone else just slogging through 3* development., while at the same time their scaling is completely off-kilter in PVE. I'm okay with a game that has a powerful, difficult to achieve, and even random endgame factor, but I've never seen a game where you could stumble on that endgame factor in the mid- or even early-game and just use it right away.

They can sell it for 8k ISO, that's quite a bit of ISO for someone working through 2* characters.

5*'s are only worth 2k iso if sold

I can also attest to the whacked out scaling that 5*'s bring to the table...hopefully there is a fix on the horizon

ShadowX1984

The majority of 2* and 3* players are not on these forums... they don't know about the scaling issues and the overall arc of the transitions. They're going to be ecstatic about the awesome powerful thing they've acquired and use it as much as they can, not really aware of how it's changing their play experience relative to other players or how it impacts the overall metagame.

BlackSheep101

Well before legendary tokens existed, it was good advice for early players not to open tokens until they could handle the results. Last year you just ran the risk of having to sell a cover because you didn't have the roster space and they only lasted 7 days in your queue. The scaling problems are way worse, if the stories are to be believed.

smkspy

ShadowX1984 wrote:

The majority of 2* and 3* players are not on these forums... they don't know about the scaling issues and the overall arc of the transitions. They're going to be ecstatic about the awesome powerful thing they've acquired and use it as much as they can, not really aware of how it's changing their play experience relative to other players or how it impacts the overall metagame.

Yeah, this my big issue with it. Casual players that don't go balls deep into every aspect of the game get a 5 star and think it's an awesome prize. Then their scaling is shot, they don't understand, and give up on the game because it's become too difficult and therefore not fun.

I send a complaint to D3 and they just sent me a generic response.