I want to talk about how we get 5*s

Raffoon

I don't want to talk about the likelihood of getting a useful cover from Legendary Tokens. I don't want to talk about the impact of 5*s on PVE, PVP, MMR, or scaling.

I want to discuss the fact that the only way we are able to get the most powerful tier of character is through an entirely luck-based system. This means that out of 100,000 people opening 100 tokens, on average 3 people will get NO 5*s, let alone covering them to a useful degree.

What are people's opinions on this? How could it be made better?

Personally, I find the idea that a person could place over 1300 in PVP over 100 times and have no progress in the "end-game" to show for it ridiculous. Not only is it possible, odds say that this WILL happen to some people.

Oh great and powerful mods, can I please have a discussion about this topic? It is completely distinct from the other 2 topics I mentioned in the first paragraph.

If this topic gets to stay around, I may even post to brainstorm solutions!

Unknown

You must sacrifice a virgin to the almighty green names.

Malcrof

The Devs said from the beginning that a lucky draw from a legendary token would be the only way to get them. You will not be able to buy them, covers for them, nor at this point, will they be given out as rewards.

If you can earn the tokens, you get a chance at them.. because of how powerful they are, it is not a good idea to just toss them out willy nilly.. i am quite happy with the current format.. even though i have none so far.. and have opened well over 20 tokens.

or you could always spend truckloads and whale tokens until you can build one.. but that is up to the player.. afaic , the longer they stay out of regular pvp teams, the better.. at least for me.

I am mid 4* transition, and every time i open a leg token, i hope it is NOT a 5*, i want to finish more 4*s first. Very glad the % is small at this point.

Unknown

Malcrof wrote:

The Devs said from the beginning that a lucky draw from a legendary token would be the only way to get them. You will not be able to buy them, covers for them, nor at this point, will they be given out as rewards.

This.

Getting 4* covers I think is still something to be complaining about at this point in the game's history. But honestly it's because previously, 4*'s were treated as 5*- they were supposed to be mostly out-of-reach items that appealed to people who grinded hardcore on the game and won the top position in a whole event or luckily got one on super low odds from a heroic token.

These 5* aren't meant to be collected and filled out in a matter of weeks. They're long term commitments earned through skill and luck combined.

simonsez

Raffoon wrote:

What are people's opinions on this? How could it be made better?

Legendaries should lead you to a vault that can not be reset until you empty it, that contains 3 SS, 3 OML, and 54 4* wild card covers. This way you always get something you actually need, and 5* distribution isn't skewed by luck.

simonsez

Malcrof wrote:

The Devs said from the beginning that a lucky draw from a legendary token would be the only way to get them. You will not be able to buy them, covers for them, nor at this point, will they be given out as rewards.

I don't think most people think they should be buyable or given out as rewards. The problem is that it's too luck based. You shouldn't have players with twice as many 5*s than players who've opened twice as many tokens. Reward effort, not how well you time the rng

tanis3303

simonsez wrote:

Legendaries should lead you to a vault that can not be reset until you empty it, that contains 3 SS, 3 OML, and 54 4* wild card covers. This way you always get something you actually need, and 5* distribution isn't skewed by luck.

Best. Small Cat. Idea. EVER.

Stony

ddvrom wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

The Devs said from the beginning that a lucky draw from a legendary token would be the only way to get them. You will not be able to buy them, covers for them, nor at this point, will they be given out as rewards.

These 5* aren't meant to be collected and filled out in a matter of weeks. They're long term commitments earned through skill and luck combined.

See, I agree with you to some extent, but then I don't. I agree that I don't think you should be able to whale them, I have no problem earning them. The problem I'm having is that I've personally opened 30 tokens and gotten 1 surfer and that's it. That is absurd. In the almost 2 months (I think?) since they've been live, I've gotten 1 cover. At that rate it will take over a year to max cover one 5*. But I'm ok with that, I've been playing 2 years already. Except we have 2 already. With more likely on the way. There needs to be another avenue then RNG.

My two suggestions would be a vault (that way I can hoard tokens and be assured of one cover at least), or more ideally, some sort of crafting feature (that I'm hearing rumblings about). But yeah, this current way is just so draining. I have very few covers I need, so when I grind a weeks long PVE, or spend hundreds of HP to hit 1.3k in pvp, or spend an ENTIRE SEASON earning one, it is so disheartening to turn that work into 1000 ISO. Yay. I can level up my Surfer a third of a level (once the gods bestow another cover upon me.)

PeterGibbons316

simonsez wrote:

Raffoon wrote:

What are people's opinions on this? How could it be made better?

Legendaries should lead you to a vault that can not be reset until you empty it, that contains 3 SS, 3 OML, and 54 4* wild card covers. This way you always get something you actually need, and 5* distribution isn't skewed by luck.

Agree, but will add that you should NOT be able to reset this vault, and it should reset itself every 60 days.

simonsez

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Agree, but will add that you should NOT be able to reset this vault, and it should reset itself every 60 days.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said, it can't be reset until you empty it. I'd prefer not to have a timer on the reset, because you're going to have people who get their vault reset when they've still got all six 5*s still in there, and that would really suck.

Orion

simonsez wrote:

Legendaries should lead you to a vault that can not be reset until you empty it, that contains 3 SS, 3 OML, and 54 4* wild card covers. This way you always get something you actually need, and 5* distribution isn't skewed by luck.

Wild card 4* covers are nice in theory, but won't work in practice. If you get to choose which cover you want, everyone will fill up their best 4*s first. Then PvP is crawling with maxed JeanBusters and IceBusters and not much else.

Maybe instead you get a random 4* character and you get to choose which color cover you want. Yeah, you can still get that XFW you don't need because you have him fully covered, but it's better than getting another XFDP red when he's already 5/0/1.

PeterGibbons316

simonsez wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Agree, but will add that you should NOT be able to reset this vault, and it should reset itself every 60 days.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said, it can't be reset until you empty it. I'd prefer not to have a timer on the reset, because you're going to have people who get their vault reset when they've still got all six 5*s still in there, and that would really suck.

But consider the opposite - what about someone who pulls every good cover out and only has 1,000 ISO rewards left in there. At that point there is little to no incentive to continue playing to earn Legendary Tokens.

I think you would want it to reset. And just like the DDQ vault, if it resets before you got what you needed.....well tough - should have horded more tokens.

I'm assuming that wild card covers won't exist. If they did then you are right, it would work just as well to force you to pull everything out of it before it reset.

Raffoon

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Agree, but will add that you should NOT be able to reset this vault, and it should reset itself every 60 days.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said, it can't be reset until you empty it. I'd prefer not to have a timer on the reset, because you're going to have people who get their vault reset when they've still got all six 5*s still in there, and that would really suck.

But consider the opposite - what about someone who pulls every good cover out and only has 1,000 ISO rewards left in there. At that point there is little to no incentive to continue playing to earn Legendary Tokens.

I think you would want it to reset. And just like the DDQ vault, if it resets before you got what you needed.....well tough - should have horded more tokens.

I'm assuming that wild card covers won't exist. If they did then you are right, it would work just as well to force you to pull everything out of it before it reset.

Right, I think a vault could work, but I also worry about being locked into a vault with only covers that you don't need.

Wild card covers would definitely help that. Alternatively, I've suggested before a vault with a very short reset timer such as 1-2 days. Obviously, a vault filled with wildcards would be better, but at least a short vault would let you hoard 20-25 tokens to guarantee a 5*.

Another option would be a behind the scenes counter that increases your chance of drawing a 5* every time you don't draw one. For example, a 5% increase every time would mean that after drawing 10 non-5*s you'd have a 60% chance to pull one. Obviously numbers could be tweaked.

Or of course, the rumored crafting/trade/point system could help.

Stony

aesthetocyst wrote:

Stony wrote:

See, I agree with you to some extent, but then I don't. I agree that I don't think you should be able to whale them, I have no problem earning them. The problem I'm having is that I've personally opened 30 tokens and gotten 1 surfer and that's it. That is absurd. In the almost 2 months (I think?) since they've been live, I've gotten 1 cover. At that rate it will take over a year to max cover one 5*. But I'm ok with that, I've been playing 2 years already. Except we have 2 already. With more likely on the way. There needs to be another avenue then RNG.

Well, you have 1 more 5* than I do .... 1 more 5* than most people on the forum have. It's clearly intended to take a LONG time. And devs thot it would work because the 5* is supposed to be usable at 1 cover. And for 2-3* transitioners and below, they are.

Once again, it's the relatively tiny slice of loyal overachievers that aren't quite fitting the apparent intent.

Since you want to compare, how many LTs have you opened?

simonsez

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

But consider the opposite - what about someone who pulls every good cover out and only has 1,000 ISO rewards left in there.

I wouldn't have 1,000 ISO awards in there. Just 5s and wild card 4s.
If you allow resets, then this is no improvement. Luck is still going to completely skew how many covers each individual gets.

TxMoose

simonsez wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

But consider the opposite - what about someone who pulls every good cover out and only has 1,000 ISO rewards left in there.

I wouldn't have 1,000 ISO awards in there. Just 5s and wild card 4s.
If you allow resets, then this is no improvement. Luck is still going to completely skew how many covers each individual gets.

yeah, if an LT vault has iso, it better be overwhelming, like 50K or something. I'd still almost rather have a cover. they put a 4* marker on the 10K iso in the taco vault - if that's what they think, I'd just assume not have any iso in there at all.

love the small vault idea though. we have just the right number now of characters where one of each cover of everybody just about equals the pull rate of the current LTs. of course that will change over time and be skewed as soon as they add the 3rd 5* in the mix. still love the idea. if they make uneven numbers, they have to make sure one of each color for each character is at least available.

BlackSheep101

I think they're referring to unneeded 4* covers as 1000 iso awards...

fun_and_gun

Malcrof wrote:

...every time i open a leg token, i hope it is NOT a 5*, i want to finish more 4*s first. Very glad the % is small at this point.

this is me also. I currently have 2 oml's (black and red) in my minor league waiting to be called up to the major league roster. I have 8 days left before I roster him to see how/if he wreaks havoc upon my game play.

TxMoose

fun and gun wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

...every time i open a leg token, i hope it is NOT a 5*, i want to finish more 4*s first. Very glad the % is small at this point.

this is me also. I currently have 2 oml's (black and red) in my minor league waiting to be called up to the major league roster. I have 8 days left before I roster him to see how/if he wreaks havoc upon my game play.

totally agree here. i have pulled 4 SS (2black/2red) and 1 OML (black) and they are completely useless except for quick work of LR/PVP seeds. they've added 20-25 levels on 6 of 9 pve nodes each sub and benefit me nothing yet. pve is still doable, but harder (i.e. takes longer and more health packs). I'd trade them in for 4* covers at this point (especially chosen covers), although in the future I'd probably regret doing that.

PeterGibbons316

TxMoose wrote:

simonsez wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

But consider the opposite - what about someone who pulls every good cover out and only has 1,000 ISO rewards left in there.

I wouldn't have 1,000 ISO awards in there. Just 5s and wild card 4s.
If you allow resets, then this is no improvement. Luck is still going to completely skew how many covers each individual gets.

yeah, if an LT vault has iso, it better be overwhelming, like 50K or something. I'd still almost rather have a cover. they put a 4* marker on the 10K iso in the taco vault - if that's what they think, I'd just assume not have any iso in there at all.

love the small vault idea though. we have just the right number now of characters where one of each cover of everybody just about equals the pull rate of the current LTs. of course that will change over time and be skewed as soon as they add the 3rd 5* in the mix. still love the idea. if they make uneven numbers, they have to make sure one of each color for each character is at least available.

Come on guys. I'm saying that a useless 4* cover is the same thing as a 1,000 ISO reward. That's the whole point. If you make a vault that must be cleared before it resets then you would have to also create a new 4* wild card token, otherwise you have a vault filled with 1,000 ISO rewards that no one wants, and doesn't play for.

So I'm assuming that this mythical wild card token won't ever exist, here is what I think we should have:

A vault containing one of each 5* cover, and nine random 4* covers for each 5* cover in there. The vault cannot be reset by the player. Only legendary tokens can be used in this vault (i.e. they can't be bought outside of the current 40-pack method). The vault resets itself every season. The vault does not reset when emptied.

Orangecrush

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

simonsez wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

But consider the opposite - what about someone who pulls every good cover out and only has 1,000 ISO rewards left in there.

I wouldn't have 1,000 ISO awards in there. Just 5s and wild card 4s.
If you allow resets, then this is no improvement. Luck is still going to completely skew how many covers each individual gets.

yeah, if an LT vault has iso, it better be overwhelming, like 50K or something. I'd still almost rather have a cover. they put a 4* marker on the 10K iso in the taco vault - if that's what they think, I'd just assume not have any iso in there at all.

love the small vault idea though. we have just the right number now of characters where one of each cover of everybody just about equals the pull rate of the current LTs. of course that will change over time and be skewed as soon as they add the 3rd 5* in the mix. still love the idea. if they make uneven numbers, they have to make sure one of each color for each character is at least available.

Come on guys. I'm saying that a useless 4* cover is the same thing as a 1,000 ISO reward. That's the whole point. If you make a vault that must be cleared before it resets then you would have to also create a new 4* wild card token, otherwise you have a vault filled with 1,000 ISO rewards that no one wants, and doesn't play for.

So I'm assuming that this mythical wild card token won't ever exist, here is what I think we should have:

A vault containing one of each 5* cover, and nine random 4* covers for each 5* cover in there. The vault cannot be reset by the player. Only legendary tokens can be used in this vault (i.e. they can't be bought outside of the current 40-pack method). The vault resets itself every season. The vault does not reset when emptied.

I would take the certainty of the system he proposed over what we have now, even if it meant I'd be opening 30+ useless 4*s for sure.