MPQ At Marvel.com: X-23 (All-New Wolverine) Incoming!

timbopp

Pylgrim wrote:

timbopp wrote:

Man you must be very lonely. I cannot think of anyone else who likes to spend 10 AP in a power that maybe, just maybe will give you some benefit in an uncertain future. In my two years of playing I think that ONCE, the opponent matched the tile the turn right after I placed the tile. And overall, I think that the opponent matching the trap happens like 15-20% of the times? The rest of times the trap gets...

- matched by myself once and/or then...
- destroyed by means other than a match (around 15% of the times)
- overwritten by an opposing special tile (25% of the times)
- placed in one of the bottom rows where it will never be matched for the rest of the game (40-50% of times).

If you are bringing Cyclops why not use /his/ red? 4k+ damage immediately plus slightly altering the board is pretty sweet, and it costs the same.

To each his own. So you disagree, no need to be alanguage about it.
Daredevil isn't in my A teams. Cyclops is. Using the same characters and same powers and same tactics over and over gets boring. Mixing it up is more fun. Yeah I could use Cyclops' red but I could also use his yellow which floods the board with red (which I did specify in my post) and pretty much negates all your listed cons.

I was not trying to be a language... well at least not to you, I guess I was being it to MPQ Daredevil, because I really like the character and I hate that they made him so conditional and risky to play in MPQ and I'm very disappointed that they keep using that mechanic in new characters. At the very least they should fix the overwriting of traps by enemy tiles, don't you agree?

I completely understand that playing with the same character over and over can get boring but still... in a game with matchmaking and scoring mechanics as cutthroat as MPQ is, not doing the most efficient thing available (especially if the alternative is as unreliable as Ambush is (even in a board flooded with red, the trap may still be placed in an unmatchable tile)) is just opening a window to be attacked for 100+ in the meantime, or risking a defeat which is a crippling loss of time, points and health packs, etc.

Again, I apologise if I came off as aggressive to you, I just really want them to fix him and Elektra or at the very least stop adding that mechanic to new characters and I guess that I felt that I needed to minimise your support for the character as it threatens that goal.

Mod Edit: language

Okay man, thanks. Apology accepted. There's nothing wrong with having different opinions, just some of your wording felt like an unnecessary personal attack ('attack' is maybe too strong a word... jab?)

I love Daredevil! I hope they don't change him and I like the trap mechanic as is. Although being able to be overwritten is annoying and something I could do without, it's hardly game breaking. I'd also welcome more trap users. I don't know off hand how many characters we currently have but it's near enough to 100 now. Right now there's only Daredevil, Elektra and Doom (not sure if he counts in this discussion) I think, so there's plenty of room for more.

Also, I don't usually use Daredevil in PVP but that said, not too long ago it was his buff week along with Cyclops and maybe Cap Marvel. Those 3 together did VERY well for me in PVP. Sometimes I'd use Cyclops' red, more often I'd try to get some traps happening. It was nice to have options.

Pylgrim

Kolence wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Being able to over-write trap tiles also takes away from the defense against these chars in PVP and PVE. Bringing in Daken when fighting DD or Elektra is useful, or any other person who can over-write. Also, take away the ability to over-write trap tiles... and where do you put anything if caltrops has filled the board.

I'd fully agree with your first argument if both DD and Elektra were top tier characters that needed additional counteraction to be reliably defeated. But as I'm sure you'll agree, they are middle-ground characters at best. The only thing that you need to defeat them reliable is using any of the many superior characters in the game. Being able to counteract one of their main mechanics make them go from an easy challenge to a laughable and entirely welcome cakewalk that will give you points while barely diminishing the health of your characters.

As for Caltrops, they are a problematic ability regardless of your ability to counteract it, as it's been brought up in the forums many times. If it's to improve some characters that really could use the buff, reworking an already broken ability of a goon should not be much sacrifice.

The way I see it, the problem then is not with the mechanic of traps but the specific powers that Daredevil and Elektra have that use them. They can be buffed in other ways, by reducing cost, increasing number of traps and colors on which they can land and the like, while still leaving the one sure way to defend against these or some other future trap producing powers by spamming the board with your own special tiles.

Completely agree that traps are fine when used in multiples, like Doom, Fury, XF Deadpool, and Elektra's black. The problem with powers that are reliant in a single trap is that you can very well see the whole expenditure of your AP go out in a poof at the drop of a needle, especially since there are several characters that put special tiles down for free or that have cheap board-destroying abilities. It's already bad that they offset the effect for an imprecise and rather luck-reliant future (how many times does not come that you need to kill a character /before/ they get their next turn? Trap-based effects won't help you there!), but the fact that you may easily lose your whole investment is discouraging.

That's precisely why single-trap powers are so hard to balance. You want to make them really good because they are literally a poor-odds gamble, but they cannot be so good that it's game-breaking when you get it... which in most cases means that it is not going to be good enough to compensate for all the times when you lose. 5.4k damage for 8 AP sounds like a bargain until you realise that you are actually getting that effect only 1 in every 3-4 times you use it or so. It becomes more like 5.4k for 20+ AP.

I think that Ambush and similar powers could be easily improved by making them similar to Nick Fury's Demolition: creating several traps, and dealing the full damage (and clearing all the traps) whenever /any/ of those traps is matched. Since the effect would be much more reliable, the ability would be easier to balance and stop being less of an all-or-nothing deal.

jtmagee

Daredevil isn't a tactician like Fury, nor does he have the resources. Only giving him one trap tile makes sense. I'd rather have it be a long countdown, like Xforce DP, where if it is matched, automatically creates that much damage. But have it work like the trap, where if it is matched by the team, still deal damage and go to another spot. That way, it can't be over-written.

But his purple should've been the original JG purple, but only effect one single target, where he can take out countdowns. That's why they made the countdown destroyers 4 and soon to be 5 stars only. Rarity.

jtmagee

Also, when if X-23 being released?

Unknown

agree, trap mechanic is bad(even though i like DD) the only reason i use DD just for his blue. his purple is weak still comparing how monstrous SG purple and good utility of jean purple(wait, is this DD discussion? lol), there lot of ability to re-write trap tile.

unless having single/for every trap(dd/x23) on the board will auto-moving one same color basic tile next to each other.

in my opinion the only good example of trap mechanic would be. . .nick fury blue

Chrono_Tata

Trap mechanic where either you or the opponent has to trip the trap, like DD or soon X-23's, isn't as bad as a lot of people think. You just have to make sure that there are possible matches of that colour on the board before activating it. Basically, maximise the likelihood that the trap spawns somewhere that can be matched on your turn or by the enemy the next turn. Using this strategy with DD, I can make his red useful more than half of the time, which is good considering how much damage it can do.

Trap mechanic where you have to keep the tile on the board like Elektra's red is pretty bad though. There are just so many easy and cheap ways that a trap tile can get accidentally destroyed, a lot of the times it will even happen on your turn.

Unknown

i had uneasy feeling everytime using single-trap maker, DD in this case: spawn in random way(most of the time spawn on un match able tile), overwrited by enemy sp tile, destroyed by board shaking ability, and lastly matched by me but there are no other red tile lol. the odds seemingly always againts player, either deal great damage as a reward or 8ap for nothing.(this why i agree with pylgrim point: same game, same experience)

(umm sorry i didn't specific on first post, im not condemn trap mechanic, only single-trap maker)

today big enchilada im try using dd/kamala/cyclop, well not good the bald bad guy put a lot stike tile already, and i fire KK green as desperate measure, guess what?, downed ninja put attack tile right in the dd red trap tile. forfeit on 2nd round lol. . . . .ahh nevermind that

woopie

What was the point in teasing Totally Awesome Hulk when X-23 was first up?

Quebbster

woopie wrote:

What was the point in teasing Totally Awesome Hulk when X-23 was first up?

To show how Totally Awesome the game will be?

Dayv

woopie wrote:

What was the point in teasing Totally Awesome Hulk when X-23 was first up?

Marketing is a harsh mistress.

Unknown

Im shocked that no one has has come out with the line, yet another wolverine??!! This is starting to get tedious now,there are so many good characters out there that could be brought into the game with a little imagination. 5th wolverine now, not one gambit or any of the other multitude of other colourful characters out there you could chose from.

IceIX

Updated her character page here. Also added her character icon.

Chrono_Tata

Gery de Brute wrote:

today big enchilada im try using dd/kamala/cyclop, well not good the bald bad guy put a lot stike tile already, and i fire KK green as desperate measure, guess what?, downed ninja put attack tile right in the dd red trap tile. forfeit on 2nd round lol. . . . .ahh nevermind that

Yeah... Ninjas are basically hard counters to DD so I wouldn't even try, since I think all of them can create red CDs. I know earlier that I said you can make DD quite useful by firing red when there are available red matches, but when you are fighting ninja or Daken or Blade, there are just too many factors working against you. One of the main problems being that the red tiles you want to match are probably occupied by special tiles already.

Pylgrim

Chrono_Tata wrote:

Trap mechanic where either you or the opponent has to trip the trap, like DD or soon X-23's, isn't as bad as a lot of people think. You just have to make sure that there are possible matches of that colour on the board before activating it. Basically, maximise the likelihood that the trap spawns somewhere that can be matched on your turn or by the enemy the next turn. Using this strategy with DD, I can make his red useful more than half of the time, which is good considering how much damage it can do.

Trap mechanic where you have to keep the tile on the board like Elektra's red is pretty bad though. There are just so many easy and cheap ways that a trap tile can get accidentally destroyed, a lot of the times it will even happen on your turn.

How is a power that you cannot use whenever you got the AP any good? The more you let your opponent live while you await for the perfect conditions for your power, the more chance they cascade into something and kill you. And if there is a red tile on one of the bottom corners how long until you can find a way of matching it? Just bring a character whose powers you can reliably use as fast as possible.

jagsy wrote:

Im shocked that no one has has come out with the line, yet another wolverine??!! This is starting to get tedious now,there are so many good characters out there that could be brought into the game with a little imagination. 5th wolverine now, not one gambit or any of the other multitude of other colourful characters out there you could chose from.

Where have you been for the last week? You are easily the 30th person or so raising this complaint, and the 30th person who needs to be explained that this is Wolverine just in title and is a completely different character.

Chrono_Tata

Pylgrim wrote:

Chrono_Tata wrote:

Trap mechanic where either you or the opponent has to trip the trap, like DD or soon X-23's, isn't as bad as a lot of people think. You just have to make sure that there are possible matches of that colour on the board before activating it. Basically, maximise the likelihood that the trap spawns somewhere that can be matched on your turn or by the enemy the next turn. Using this strategy with DD, I can make his red useful more than half of the time, which is good considering how much damage it can do.

Trap mechanic where you have to keep the tile on the board like Elektra's red is pretty bad though. There are just so many easy and cheap ways that a trap tile can get accidentally destroyed, a lot of the times it will even happen on your turn.

How is a power that you cannot use whenever you got the AP any good? The more you let your opponent live while you await for the perfect conditions for your power, the more chance they cascade into something and kill you. And if there is a red tile on one of the bottom corners how long until you can find a way of matching it? Just bring a character whose powers you can reliably use as fast as possible.

Well, there are plenty of good powers that depends on board condition, which you can't use automatically after getting the necessary AP. Surgical Strike and Magnetic Translocation, for example. Ambush obviously isn't as good, but it's an opportunistic attack that can do a lot of damage with the right condition. You're not going into a match with DD as your main damage dealer. Think of him as a support character that can reliably stun and destroy special tiles, with a potential nuke that can could speed up the game or get you out of a tight spot. The Hood also fills a similar role.