PvP Gameplay & Etiquette Questions

MPQ_Daywalker

My roster and my HP stockpile are finally decent enough for me to consider regularly going for the 1000 mark in PvP. I've hit it once before, and come close a bunch of other times, but I think my main problem in the past was timing, as I was trying to make my run in the final hours of the Vs. and was getting beat down super-quick because of that. My strategy with the Rocket & Groot PvP was to make my run much earlier, so I started making a push last night and this morning (for slice 5).

I got up to the top 10 in my shard when I hit over 800 points (I assume due to this being off-season and me making my run early). In my search for a high-point target I found a player with a 148 Loki, a (boosted) 215 R&G and a (boosted) 294 LThor that would give me more than 40 points. The odd thing was the player was not in my Top 10. I thought maybe they lost points and I wouldn't get the full points, but I tried it anyway... I won and received over 40 points. Checked the leaderboard and they still weren't in my top 10.

My first question: does the MMR for PvP match you up with people from other shards? I did not realize it did this if that's the case.

My second question is more etiquette.... the abovementioned player hit me back for a retaliation, and lost. I was shielded and could see that they had almost 900 points. As I skipped through nodes to find another player, this same player came up again, for 41 points. I am really struggling to find anyone else worth more than 30 points. Is it bad form to hit this person again, several hours after they retaliated against me (and lost), when I can assume they shielded?

mgallop

You can see all players in your shard (assuming they aren't shielded), even if they aren't in your bracket.

The appropriate etiquette for hitting someone is to wait a while. If its been 15+ minutes, they aren't on a hop, and you can hit away. This is especially true if someone has way more points than you and is worth 60+, if they're worth around 40, hitting isn't that bad unless they're hopping, because the retal node you leave will be worth 40ish.

JVReal

You are only matched with people in the same time shard, but they may not show up on your leaderboard because they may be in a different bracket.

Some alliances join the same shard, but space out their join times so they end up in different brackets, thus having a broader view of the slice to be able to verify with each other if leaders are shielded and safe to hit if you have them queued up.

As stated by others, 40 points isn't a bad hit, because you'll be giving about an equal retaliation and if you're shielded when they hit back, it's no loss to you and a gain to them (if they beat you). It is the higher value nodes that you will want to be more aware of shielding if possible or waiting a bit before hitting.

When you are at the top of your bracket, it is harder to find those higher point targets unless the people ahead of you have a much higher score, and are unshielded hopping.

mrflopwelligan

What is the difference between shard and bracket?

stochasticism

mrflopwelligan wrote:

What is the difference between shard and bracket?

Shard/slice is everyone with the same end time.

A bracket is a subset of up to 500 people in the same slice.

You can be matched up with anyone in your slice but can only see the scores/shield status of the top 10 + a window of about 5 people in either direction of your current rank.

JVReal

mrflopwelligan wrote:

What is the difference between shard and bracket?

A Shard is a time slot that you play, and everyone choosing that time slot (or shard) are pooled together.

Within that Time Slot (or shard) are smaller groups of people that join the event over the course of the event. Those are smaller groups that as they fill up, they close and a new bracket (or group of time slot players) opens up and begins filling. There are also two different groups of brackets filling simultaneously, "newbie" brackets, people who are new to PVP and have smaller rosters, and "vet" brackets, people who have bigger rosters and have been scoring well in PVP.

It's like each Time Shard is a school, and each bracket is a classroom. the people in the classroom compete with each other for placement, but they can also compete with people in other classrooms for points... but everyone stays inside that one school.

Unknown

I didn't know this either. Thanks for the primer!

BlackSheep101

Is there a point level at which you start seeing people outside your bracket (and, presumably, also become visible outside your bracket)?

MPQ_Daywalker

Thank you, everyone, for the advice and help. I realize now in my OP I talked about seeing people not in my shard; I really meant bracket.

I just broke my shield with a few minutes left, played two matches for a little over 40 points each... and was attacked twice while unshielded. I managed to stay slightly above 900 (I'm shielded at 908, #5 in my bracket right now) so it was still a net gain.

It would be nice if once you got over 900 the game would put a little flag next to your name or something when people are queueing you up... so that person knows "Hey, this person is just about to hit his/her 1000 progression, maybe I should hold off hitting them for a little while." They could still decide to take the fight right away, but it would be a little way the game could actually assist in etiquette.

Without that, if you happen to be in Slice 5 of Most Wanted and are reading this, if you queue up _Daywalker_ please hold off on hitting me for like 20 minutes or so. Just enough to let me get over 1000. After that, feel free to hit me, I'll be unshielded the rest of the slice.

mags1587

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Is there a point level at which you start seeing people outside your bracket (and, presumably, also become visible outside your bracket)?

You are always visible to everyone in the slice/shard.

BlackSheep101

mags1587 wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Is there a point level at which you start seeing people outside your bracket (and, presumably, also become visible outside your bracket)?

You are always visible to everyone in the slice/shard.

Weird, I could have sworn I read that once you reach a certain point threshold you become visible to a broader audience.

mags1587

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Weird, I could have sworn I read that once you reach a certain point threshold you become visible to a broader audience.

I think what you've noticed is something different. There's your bracket, which are the players you can see on your leaderboard. Your shard/slice, which is all of the players who picked that end time. Then there's your MMR. Which is the dev's method of trying to match you up with players at a similar level so 2* teams fight other 2* teams, etc.

This is a simplified explanation, but all other things being equal, the game will give you targets in your slice/shard for your MMR level. At some point level, though, MMR is thrown out the window and you can see (and be seen by) everyone. So there is a point level which you start seeing people outside your MMR, but you're never going to just be visible to (or just see) the people in your bracket.

DrNitroman

BlackSheep101 wrote:

mags1587 wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Is there a point level at which you start seeing people outside your bracket (and, presumably, also become visible outside your bracket)?

You are always visible to everyone in the slice/shard.

Weird, I could have sworn I read that once you reach a certain point threshold you become visible to a broader audience.

As I understood, below 800, you see and are seen by people who are in the same range of score as you ...
...and above 800, you are seen by everyone in your slice.
So above this threshold the risk is higher to suffer a -75 pts attack

stochasticism

DrNitroman wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

mags1587 wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Is there a point level at which you start seeing people outside your bracket (and, presumably, also become visible outside your bracket)?

You are always visible to everyone in the slice/shard.

Weird, I could have sworn I read that once you reach a certain point threshold you become visible to a broader audience.

As I understood, below 800, you see and are seen by people who are in the same range of score as you ...
...and above 800, you are seen by everyone in your slice.
So above this threshold the risk is higher to suffer a -75 pts attack

I've also read that this threshold is not absolute and it will float up or down depending on the scores that are in your slice.

BlackSheep101

Yes, that's what I was talking about. I have no confirmation of anything at any specific point threshold. I just know that when I get higher, I start getting hit more and start having a hard time finding match ups that are worth more than 38 points.

Linkster79

mgallop wrote:

You can see all players in your shard (assuming they aren't shielded), even if they aren't in your bracket.

The appropriate etiquette for hitting someone is to wait a while. If its been 15+ minutes, they aren't on a hop, and you can hit away. This is especially true if someone has way more points than you and is worth 60+, if they're worth around 40, hitting isn't that bad unless they're hopping, because the retal node you leave will be worth 40ish.

As a person always wanting to poke a hornets nest, that is a portion of the forums ettiquette and not everyone here agrees with it. Personally I say if the points are worth and you can beat them easily, double, triple heck ride their **** all the down to less than 38 points. If you can do it quick enough only 1 retaliation node will appear on their screen. Free points!

SnagglePuss

I presume by quick enough this means hitting when other people are hitting as only the first 5/6 attacks in a batch are shown? Once the person checks they only see a list and the attacker will only show as a single retaliation node even if they have hit X number of times by the same attacker?

I remember going for 2k one season and asked the commander what the etiquette was for hitting players. They said go for it but i thought that's a bit off. Some chump proceeded to hit me for 200 pts (no health and not shielding). Fair enough hit him back and then some for the points i lost. Fortunately the only time it's happened so far and i only double tapped someone once when the queue was exhausted and it was the last fight to hit 1k/2k (sim)

Someone mentioned that queues are slow to update. So it's better to float somewhere around 700/750 pts and then make a quickfire run as high as you can before queues are updated and everybody realises you are about on 900+ pts instead of 700 odd.

mgallop

Linkster79 wrote:

mgallop wrote:

You can see all players in your shard (assuming they aren't shielded), even if they aren't in your bracket.

The appropriate etiquette for hitting someone is to wait a while. If its been 15+ minutes, they aren't on a hop, and you can hit away. This is especially true if someone has way more points than you and is worth 60+, if they're worth around 40, hitting isn't that bad unless they're hopping, because the retal node you leave will be worth 40ish.

As a person always wanting to poke a hornets nest, that is a portion of the forums ettiquette and not everyone here agrees with it. Personally I say if the points are worth and you can beat them easily, double, triple heck ride their **** all the down to less than 38 points. If you can do it quick enough only 1 retaliation node will appear on their screen. Free points!

Linkster, as a piece of friends advice, be careful who you do that to. If people get doubled/tripled/quadrupled they remember, they share the name of people who do it, they retaliate in other events while climbing. I've seen screenshots of people tapping a known sniper 15+ times, I've seen a gift card bounty on a sniper. Following etiquette is positive sum and let's everyne in the shard get higher scores, but that's not the only reason to be nice.

Raffoon

mgallop wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

mgallop wrote:

You can see all players in your shard (assuming they aren't shielded), even if they aren't in your bracket.

The appropriate etiquette for hitting someone is to wait a while. If its been 15+ minutes, they aren't on a hop, and you can hit away. This is especially true if someone has way more points than you and is worth 60+, if they're worth around 40, hitting isn't that bad unless they're hopping, because the retal node you leave will be worth 40ish.

As a person always wanting to poke a hornets nest, that is a portion of the forums ettiquette and not everyone here agrees with it. Personally I say if the points are worth and you can beat them easily, double, triple heck ride their **** all the down to less than 38 points. If you can do it quick enough only 1 retaliation node will appear on their screen. Free points!

Linkster, as a piece of friends advice, be careful who you do that to. If people get doubled/tripled/quadrupled they remember, they share the name of people who do it, they retaliate in other events while climbing. I've seen screenshots of people tapping a known sniper 15+ times, I've seen a gift card bounty on a sniper. Following etiquette is positive sum and let's everyne in the shard get higher scores, but that's not the only reason to be nice.

As Mgallop mentioned, one of the biggest benefits to following etiquette is that it results in higher points for everyone in the slice.

When you hit an unshielded person, the overall amount of points in the system stays relatively stable: You gain some and they lose a slightly different amount.

When you hit a shielded person, the overall points in the system increases: You gain some and they lose nothing.

If more people played like Linkster does, then everyone in the slice would get less progression rewards overall. This is why it's good that "snipers" like him who do not follow this etiquette are recognized and targeted. It changes the incentive structure so that engaging in selfish behaviors like that are less desirable. Yes, he got another 80 points immediately by hitting someone 4 times. In the future, when others are choosing targets, he'll be the first one they go for.

In short, by not being a jerk, we all get more prizes. Wait a little while to hit people so they can finish their hops

Unknown

Honest question, and likely one shared by others in my situation:

If I am playing PvP with L130 3* heroes, how worried am I about all the etiquette stuff?

I'm facing teams with levels between 250-270 (boosted 3*s & XFW, other less covered 4*s, a few single cover $$s) usually, and I basically skip (usually 10-15 times) until I find one that is potentially doable (primarily favorable team compositions, hopefully someone with heroes <L200).

So, put succinctly, how worried should I be about etiquette faux pas at my current level? Is there a level at which PvP players should start paying more attention? I've only seen a few Fistbusters, Jean Greys, and the like, so can I just play the game normally?

Oh, I should also mention I don't tend to score above 300-400 points, if that matters. I get hit a bunch (roughly 2-3 defenses for every 1 offense) after 200 points by teams I have virtually no chance of beating as well, if that helps.

DBC

Malcrof

There is a long long thread somewhere about all of this, from a few months ago.. can anyone link the original? That thread changed the way i play, and i haven't missed a 1k i wanted since.