Musings from a returning player

wirius

The anniversary got me back into playing again after I took several months off. I'm nearing the end of maxing out the 3*'s, and was excited at the prospect of lots of new 4*'s and an easier transition.

The problem is I load up the pvp, look at the 1k reward and go, Jean Gray, nice. But then it hits me. That's one cover. I need 13, THIRTEEN covers which could take me months. I look at the 3* reward for Rocket and Groot and think, yeah, I can get a squirrel girl or two. I don't even look at the first place reward, that may as well be like winning the lottery.

In short, I like your game, I want to transition to 4*'s, but wow, the effort for reward still seems like too much effort. This is not a debate, this is not a claim to how the game's direction should change. It is merely feedback and opinion from a player who came back, and now doesn't feel much like staying.

acescracked

Ok, gonna tell you a secret. Don't let anyone else know since this information is super hush hush.

MPQ is free to play which means they want you to spend money and buy 4* covers or even better buy (again using real money) token packs. Either method; buying covers or token packs, is the real 4* progression path.

Getting 4* covers for free is supposed to be overly difficult and time consuming if you don't want to give them $$. Oh yea another secret is D3 is a business whose number 1 goal is to make money (as it should be).

Norrin Radd

While I agree they should be more difficult than 3 stars, they should be giving top 10 in events 4 stars with all the new ones they crank out every other week. The 3-4 star transition gets harder and harder each new character. I have 77 roster slots and only 4 of my four stars have more than 3 covers.

cyineedsn

The 4* transition is dragging for many many people. Like maybe you'll have half the 4*s usable at this time in 2016 or 2017. At the rate of 4* release and opportunities to get them most f2p players will grind hard and have 1/3 of them usable by dec 2016....wait what?

GurlBYE

cyineedsn wrote:

The 4* transition is dragging for many many people. Like maybe you'll have half the 4*s usable at this time in 2016 or 2017. At the rate of 4* release and opportunities to get them most f2p players will grind hard and have 1/3 of them usable by dec 2016....wait what?

Which would be perfect if like no one had them and 1 cover made them useable.

But that'd be in a bubble. By that point, we could in theory be in the 6 star tier.
4 stars would be like 2 stars now.

I'm wondering if tiering of characters in this manner is really a sustainable long term plan, even for pay to play players.

Ludaa

They're not going to loosen their grip on 4's until their bean counters tell them to. If you've played so long that you're transitioning to 4's, just hunker down and weather the storm like everyone else. I guess you could quit, but c'mon now, we're all in too deep for that drastic a move.

GurlBYE

Ludaa wrote:

They're not going to loosen their grip on 4's until their bean counters tell them to. If you've played so long that you're transitioning to 4's, just hunker down and weather the storm like everyone else. I guess you could quit, but c'mon now, we're all in too deep for that drastic a move.

The issue is also from other perspectives.

The 4 star flood effects all levels of play. And the tighter they get the less retention they'll have on future spenders when 5 star becomes the new pay tier.

simonsez

wirius wrote:

The anniversary got me back into playing again after I took several months off. I'm nearing the end of maxing out the 3*'s, and was excited at the prospect of lots of new 4*'s and an easier transition.

The problem is I load up the pvp, look at the 1k reward and go, Jean Gray, nice. But then it hits me. That's one cover. I need 13, THIRTEEN covers which could take me months.

I'm trying to understand how, as a returning player, this just hit you NOW...

wirius

Acecracked, surprisingly, I know this secret. I've spent over 100 dollars in the game over the year I've played. For what 4*'s are now, they're too expensive for a person like me. Shields cost money too, but the effort to hit 1k doesn't make me want to shield either. Maybe I hit a nerve, but the point was purely feedback on my feelings, something that won't change.

Simonsez, I played a lot when Thoress was a big deal. There weren't many four stars, so their model made sense back then. Now? It doesn't. There are two things that decrease the specialness of something in game. One is rarity of obtainment, the other is rarity of quantity. Now that 4*'s are all they develop, the rarity of quantity is gone. As such, they need to up the frequency of distribution. Lots of supply with little way of obtaining that supply feels like an unfun system I do not wish to pursue. That is all.

simonsez

wirius wrote:

As such, they need to up the frequency of distribution.

In a given 5 day span, we have a DDQ4, a PvE progression token, 2 PvP 1k progressions, and potentially 2 PvP 1.3k tokens, and for the extreme players, a T2 PvE award and a T1 PvP award. So every 5 days you can get anywhere from four to eight 4*s. Plus token luck. Yeah, I get it, I look at my 5-6 covers on RH, Cyke, and Iceman and really wish I could be using them now, but I don't see how they can distribute 4*s any more frequently than that without trivializing progression.

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

wirius wrote:

As such, they need to up the frequency of distribution.

In a given 5 day span, we have a DDQ4, a PvE progression token, 2 PvP 1k progressions, and potentially 2 PvP 1.3k tokens, and for the extreme players, a T2 PvE award and a T1 PvP award. So every 5 days you can get anywhere from four to eight 4*s. Plus token luck. Yeah, I get it, I look at my 5-6 covers on RH, Cyke, and Iceman and really wish I could be using them now, but I don't see how they can distribute 4*s any more frequently than that without trivializing progression.

Outside of the extreme, only 2 of those are guaranteed covers. 2-4 are lottery tickets which may/may not help you. I would say the 1300 especially has limited use as a token; the rosters with a decent achievement rate are quite likely to have reduced or severely reduced odds of usable characters

Comparatively, in the same 5 day span, for 3* you have 5 (ddq) + 1-2(Pve progression), 2 (PvP 800) + 3-9 (rewards for T-100/150 placement)

So 11-18 guarantees, + 5 times the drop rate in tokens.

This made a lot of sense when there were 1/8 to 1/4 of the amount of characters in each tier. Now that we're crossing 1/2, I don't think he's wrong about frequency needing to be ramped up, but I also don't think it will go unaddressed.

pheregas

simonsez wrote:

wirius wrote:

As such, they need to up the frequency of distribution.

In a given 5 day span, we have a DDQ4, a PvE progression token, 2 PvP 1k progressions, and potentially 2 PvP 1.3k tokens, and for the extreme players, a T2 PvE award and a T1 PvP award. So every 5 days you can get anywhere from four to eight 4*s. Plus token luck. Yeah, I get it, I look at my 5-6 covers on RH, Cyke, and Iceman and really wish I could be using them now, but I don't see how they can distribute 4*s any more frequently than that without trivializing progression.

I agree that they attempted to increase 4* distribution. I've been playing for 600 days, have all the characters but OML, have all but three 3*s cover maxed, but have 3 usable 4*s (one of which is IW, so you can make the argument that I only have 2). I've only personally only been able to complete 3 of the DDQ 4* challenges.

I've gotten every available PVE Legendary token. But the unexpected fallout is that since everyone wants a Legendary, competition has become even more intense. Which means that the only ones that can place are the ones that don't really need it. People used to take a PVE off when it wasn't a new character, but now I find myself playing every single event. Newer players are having an increasingly difficult time finishing with good rewards since vets are taking all the top spots for things they don't need (other than the legendary). And the other odd side effect is that 4*s appear to be easier to get than 3*s! Sure, I get heroic tokens. All of them available during PVE and PVP (up to 650 points). I've pulled no 3*s since the end of the Anniversary week. I really hadn't pulled any for weeks prior to that. And while I did pull quite a few during Anniversary week (and even a couple 4's), that was only for one week (and ultimately none that weren't duplicates) and probably due to the fact that the reward tokens were just so much more prevalent. In the Deadpool Vs. event, you could achieve a grand total of 6 tokens (2 during progression, one per sub if you were a top 300, and one per sub if you were top 50 in an alliance.) During Galactus, I had the opportunity to win 5+ every 4 hours!

The odds were not much different, but the opportunity certainly was.

BlackSheep101

It would help if they slowed down how quickly they release the new 4*s, though.

Heartburn

Yah their reward structure kinda sucks they should have the progressive rewards lowered. PvP I didn't hit the 3 star reward consistently until I didn't need it anymore. Many people pointed out that the legendary token is for 4 to 5 . So where are the 3 to 4 rewards?

Not legendary tokens not DDQ4, not the top spot you need maxed 4 to earn it at least in pvp, story mode needs better rewards because you are playing 3x-5x as much to stay on top and only a legendary in progressive.

They need to add at least one 4 star in story mode progressive, 2-3 on 7 days and add 4star rewards in all events for top 50 and change event tokens to 3 star plus because there are 40 3 . If they were nice they would remove 2 stars from DDQ because they said themselves there data indicates the for the majority of people that play DDQ wave node are using 3 . There are enough ways to get 2 already they don't need to be in virtually every token or event draw pool.

firethorne

acescracked wrote:

MPQ is free to play which means they want you to spend money and buy 4* covers

And you know what, I might actually buy two or three of them if that prospect didn't cost as much as buying a PS4. Fully covering a single character costs over $100.. Call me when it is under $20, and I might consider it as a possibility.

Unknown

firethorne wrote:

acescracked wrote:

MPQ is free to play which means they want you to spend money and buy 4* covers

And you know what, I might actually buy two or three of them if that prospect didn't cost as much as buying a PS4. Fully covering a single character costs over $100.. Call me when it is under $20, and I might consider it as a possibility.

Consistently blows my mind to see people actually suggesting this as an option, let alone angrily/sarcastically defending it as viable. Can you imagine a computer or console game that charged $100.00 per character plus cash on top of that to even add said character to your roster?

I get it if it works for you, but yelling at me because it makes no sense to me? Oh my, that's rich. [pun very much intended]

DBC

Arimis_Thorn

acescracked wrote:

Ok, gonna tell you a secret. Don't let anyone else know since this information is super hush hush.

MPQ is free to play which means they want you to spend money and buy 4* covers or even better buy (again using real money) token packs. Either method; buying covers or token packs, is the real 4* progression path.

Getting 4* covers for free is supposed to be overly difficult and time consuming if you don't want to give them $$. Oh yea another secret is D3 is a business whose number 1 goal is to make money (as it should be).

**** THIS^^^^!!!

I've been playing more or less non-stop for about a year and a half. I got myself into a great Alliance, have all but 1 3* cover and am starting to get a couple decently covered 4*s. I'd been hitting 1K in PVP consistently right up to when the 2nd Anniversary started.

I've spent probably close to $200 in my time, but very very little of that has been on actual covers. Mostly roster slots.

And it's not enough. Not nearly enough. Not even slightly close to enough. I'm running up against fully covered Red Hulks and Classic Cykes who JUST came out. You now CANNOT compete in PVP without at least 2 maxed 4 stars, one of whom is probably Jean Grey or Iceman. The other is most likely Hulkbuster.

My Hulkbuster is close to covered and leveled up to 210, but it's not enough. Even with boosted 3*'s it's not enough. You need to have the latest and greatest, fully whaled out current best of the best.

The goal posts keep moving. By the time I get to a solid roster of 4*s, the 5*s will have overtaken the scene.

If ever there was a time to break things up into segregated brackets, it's RIGHT **** NOW. The chasm is getting too wide.

It's simply not fun anymore.

GurlBYE

The issue is if they lowered the price, they'd get a lot of funk from people who whaled characters with thousands of dollars.

They'd have to give like a month warning and make the messages even in game about a price drop to pull a price drop off successfully.

simonsez wrote:

wirius wrote:

As such, they need to up the frequency of distribution.

In a given 5 day span, we have a DDQ4, a PvE progression token, 2 PvP 1k progressions, and potentially 2 PvP 1.3k tokens, and for the extreme players, a T2 PvE award and a T1 PvP award. So every 5 days you can get anywhere from four to eight 4*s. Plus token luck. Yeah, I get it, I look at my 5-6 covers on RH, Cyke, and Iceman and really wish I could be using them now, but I don't see how they can distribute 4*s any more frequently than that without trivializing progression.

While the legnedaries do have a 90% chance of 4 stars, aren't they meant for the 5 star transition and the the 4 star supposed to be more of a "sorry try again" prize?

every 5 days getting up to 8 out of the 260 covers to complete the tier isn't trivial because it doesn't run on a vault system.
People get plenty of copies as is.

In theory if they got 8 a week, and every cover was not a copy, and optimal build that'd be 35 of those 5 day sessions.
Even 5 drags that 35 up to over 50, which is a close to a year. I can guarantee we'll see a good chunk more 4 stars in the coming weeks, not speaking at all of the next 6 months.
Excluding the fact that more will be released in the time frame lowering odds of specific needed covers.

even 10 or 11 a week wouldn't significantly speed up the process but give players at least a daily, heres some progress.

Arimis_Thorn

simonsez wrote:

wirius wrote:

As such, they need to up the frequency of distribution.

In a given 5 day span, we have a DDQ4, a PvE progression token, 2 PvP 1k progressions, and potentially 2 PvP 1.3k tokens, and for the extreme players, a T2 PvE award and a T1 PvP award. So every 5 days you can get anywhere from four to eight 4*s. Plus token luck. Yeah, I get it, I look at my 5-6 covers on RH, Cyke, and Iceman and really wish I could be using them now, but I don't see how they can distribute 4*s any more frequently than that without trivializing progression.

This is irrelevant. Realistically, only 1 of those is really available to the average player and that's the PVE progression token.

Taco tokens? Come on.

PVP tokens? The 1K is getting further and further away for the average player as those who are already tricked out are fielding stronger and stronger teams. 1.3K is for the Ballers only.

As many have mentioned, it's become a case of the rich getting richer and everyone else is boned.

GrumpySmurf1002

Arimis Thorn wrote:

PVP tokens? The 1K is getting further and further away for the average player

The average player scores 233 per PvP.

BlackSheep101

Arimis Thorn wrote:

You now CANNOT compete in PVP without at least 2 maxed 4 stars, one of whom is probably Jean Grey or Iceman. The other is most likely Hulkbuster.

What do you mean by compete? I have no usable 4*s yet, but I've had maxed 3*s for a few seasons now. I routinely place in the top 100 in pvp, and have recently been reaching 1k progression rewards. That has some to do with maxing out more characters that then become featured and some to do with changing tactics and taking on teams I used to routinely skip. Legendary tokens, new 4*s, rostering OML, none of these things have prevented me from improving my play.

If you're talking about being in the running for number 1 in an event, yes, you'll need characters strong enough to hang with the competition. Those players play very hard and/or spend money on the game to get that strong. It's unrealistic to expect to equal their success without equaling their efforts or expenditure.