Marvel Puzzle Quest: a tale of two platforms

DFiPL

Yes, mods, I'm aware that we have a thread devoted to the console release of Marvel Puzzle Quest, but as I've largely been the only one posting my thoughts in it, that leads me to believe that either the vast majority of the forums haven't bothered much with the game (entirely possible, in which case I apologize pre-emptively for my hubris in creating this thread), or people are assuming it merely to be an announcement thread and not much bothering to look within.

So I'm posting this, at least as much to consolidate my thoughts in one place as to encourage others who may be playing the game to chime in with their experiences and observations.

TL;DR: please don't lock this

Moving on. Some of what I'm going to say here isn't particularly new information, but maybe we can reveal some context through this thread. Some of it is stuff I have speculated on in the other thread, but as the red name involved with that thread doesn't appear to have commented on that speculation, hey! Maybe they'll see this and say 'yup yup' or 'lol nope.' And some of what I'm 'bout to say I don't recall seeing elsewhere previously, so maybe it's new info.

The core game (priced at $15 on PSN, probably the same on Xbox Live) contains within it the Prologue, Unstable ISO-8, The Hunt, Thick as Thieves, ISO-8 Brotherhood and Prodigal Sun hubs/stories/whatever you wanna call 'em. Progression is linear'ish. That is, you can grind any node you've previously completed, but just as unlocking the next node requires defeating the one before it, you can't move on to Unstable ISO-8 until you've beaten the Prologue. Can't move on to The Hunt until you've beaten Unstable ISO-8. Etc. These "events" (as we know them in the free-to-play version) have been chained together to represent a story.

Given that the code split happened some time ago, we already know that certain characters aren't recruitable at this time, and that certain power rebalances didn't make the cut. For example, having beaten the Prologue, I can tell you that Ragnarok doesn't have a blue power, unlike the F2P game. He's also level 50, which tracks more closely with what I remember him being a looooong time ago in F2P (instead of his current 140). However, that means the "new experience" that jettisoned the Baxter Building isn't here, either. The "old" H.A.M.M.E.R. hub is here.

Character recruitment is essentially random. You start with a base set of heroes, with a single cover of each. Because there's no F2P foolery (roster slots and the like), there's also no token shop. You acquire and build heroes through progression and grinding. It appears that there are certain nodes which reward new characters, similarly to how the prologue introduced additional characters over time on F2P, but otherwise, you randomly get cover rewards for defeating nodes, new or old. I have yet to see any node I've repeated grant me a cover for a character I don't have yet, so my guess is that mostly how I'll be getting them going forward is going to be by defeating them at key moments (most of the heroes, I'd bet, will drop in Prodigal Sun, though that's just a hunch). Once you have the character, THEN you appear to be able to get additional covers via grinding. But until you get, say, Daken, there's no point in grinding easier nodes looking for Daken covers. As far as I can tell, nodes are endlessly grindable for covers since there are no powerups (that I've seen) and no ISO (so no booby prizes).

I haven't yet been able to determine a "why," but where my first six heroes began at level one, the last three I've recruited - Juggernaut, Venom, and Daken - have joined the team at level 30+. Venom joined at Juggernaut's level, but Daken joined a few levels below either of those two, so I can't tell if it's an average-of-a-certain-number-of-characters thing or if the character level is just pegged to the node where they first drop. At any rate, as you earn new characters, they will join the team already moderately usable, at least in terms of match damage. Bullseye just joined the team as I wrote this (been using Remote Play to play on my Vita) and he comes in with a single cover, at level 50. That ties him with Juggernaut, whom I have leveled to 50. That, incidentally, was what happened with Daken. When he joined, he was at Juggernaut's level. Daken has been the lone weirdo who joins at a level above most of the rest of my roster but not quite at the same level as my strongest character.

Level cap is 300. We saw screenshots previously that confirmed that, but I also confirmed it by going into multiplayer (which is as barren as the Gobi, at least for me) and noticing that all of my unlocked characters were 5/5/5 and level 300. Because I haven't been able to find a multiplayer fight yet, I have no idea if covers drop in multiplayer the way they do in single player. I hope to find out, someday! I suppose I could try a local multiplayer fight and just use both of my PS4 controllers, but not sure that would be a fair test as to whether or not covers drop in MP. I mean, if I earn one in local, sure, there ya go. But an absence of cover drops in local doesn't mean online won't have them, either.

XP is only partly tied to the level of the fight. There is mission XP, but you can also earn XP by generating combos, match-4's, match-5's, criticals, and using powers. Longer fights, then, will tend to give you more XP no matter what the 'mission' XP bonus is. The final fight in H.A.M.M.E.R. yielded 180 XP, 100 of which was (in that fight) mission XP. The third mission in "Unstable ISO-8" yielded 1000 base XP, but I got an additional 316 XP via the aforementioned bonuses. Everybody earns XP, whether they survive the fight or not, but characters who are knocked out earn less XP than those who survive. I haven't been able to pin it down exactly, but the eyeball test seems to be half XP for those knocked out, full XP for everybody else. Doesn't look like it's being applied based on who did the most things; if everybody lives, everybody gets full XP for the fight.

Leveling happens through play, so grinding serves two purposes: get your heroes powered up so they can tackle the (progressively harder) fights as you move through the story, but also to backfill covers for characters who aren't yet 5/5/5. Since there's no F2P foolery, there's no 20 ISO madness, either. You just do the fight, earn XP accordingly, and periodically get a cover drop. Sometimes you'll get team-ups of the enemies you're facing, also, but I have yet to see any power-ups.

Addendum: when I say there's no F2P foolery, that means none. No alliances, no roster spots, no multiple forms of currency, etc. You have to use the character to strengthen them. If you ride your three best characters through every fight, you'll clear the story but your heroes and villains who aren't in your top 3 won't ever improve, other than gaining cover drops. Alternatively, means no cooldown on hero use if they get hurt, so why in the heck do healing powers still have the 'temporary' healing art (the yellow bar appended to the red one)? They're at full health as soon as the fight ends, so that kind of seems about as useless as mammaries on a male bovine.

The 5/5/5 build on all characters means that you get the best, and worst, of everybody. Eventually. You can't structure your Hulk build (if you buy the DLC which includes him) to stave off his team damage at Anger5, for example. But neither do you have to make an agonizing decision between IM35's yellow or blue.

Surprisingly, there's no in-game notice of available DLC. No 'locked' symbols over character slots belonging to DLC characters, no 'check the Store' button, no in-game announcements of available DLC, nothing. If you're not an MPQ vet and you pick this game up on PSN/Xbox Live because, hey, Marvel? Decent chance you'll miss out on the extra stuff, especially if the characters released in the last ~12 months do ultimately find their way into the game through additional DLC packs.

I'm working my way through Unstable ISO-8 at the moment, but it looks like how this is working is that there's no master event/sub-event mechanic here. you just play through nodes, and the additional nodes become available as you beat the previous ones. Not entirely sure what to make of that. I have five fights on the map for Unstable ISO-8, with two having just unlocked after I beat #3. I don't remember how many total "overworld" fights there are in that event, partly because I don't remember if it was a shorter or longer event in F2P. Maybe someone else can chime in there. Do the subevents in F2P ever have dialogue for the "story"? If so, I wonder if that's getting shoehorned in to the other nodes on the console version, or if the composition of those "overworld" fights has been altered to ensure that the characters who spark dialogue are in those fights.

That's about all I've got right now, although I continue to play. Hopefully there are others playing the game who can fill in anything I've missed so far, or who are ahead of me and perhaps have insights I haven't reached yet.

UPDATE 1: Just beat Unstable ISO-8. Some of the text...maybe it's been a while since I've really read the story panels in the F2P version, and I'd bet that is in fact what it is, but the story feels slightly different. I'll make sure to pay attention the next time Unstable ISO-8 rolls around.

Opened up The Hunt, and as someone pointed out in the official thread, The Hunt does have sub-events. How that works in the context of the console version is, you click "The Hunt" on the overworld mission screen, and it takes you to a screen that shows the three sub-events - Alaska, Florida, and Savage. They're linear. Can't do Florida until Alaska is complete, can't do Savage until Florida is complete.

I continue to earn new characters; Ms. Marvel, Moonstone and Hawkeye (Modern) have all joined my usable roster. Hawkeye, with a single red cover, is level 70 - putting him ahead of the rest of my roster. This has been the pattern, with one exception. I think the rationale there is probably to enable the character to keep pace with the rest of the roster even though it'll still need covers to be usable. That way, you aren't waiting to get another 4-5 covers and THEN having to go level that cat from 1 to wherever the rest of the team is at.

UPDATE 2: So what I said above about no DLC announcements and such is true. However, the roster screen has five blank slots for characters. There's no info when you hover over them. No "hey you go buy this character pack in the Store" or "keep playing to unlock" or any of that jazz. They're just mysteriously blank. That said? Pretty sure I know exactly who those five characters are:

Hulk and Punisher from the first DLC; Deadpool and Doc Ock from the second; and Iron Patriot. I have no idea, as yet, how you recruit Iron Patriot. I stlil think it's got to be a reward in Prodigal Sun, since that's the last included story node (beat the game, get Iron Patriot? or something) but that's just speculation. Anyway, TL;DR: the roster screen DOES give you a hint that there are other characters to be gotten. It just doesn't tell you that four of the five are DLC. You gotta figure that out on your own.

UPDATE 3: I'm starting to get to the point where I can (kind of) compare power abilities between F2P and console. Thing is, the level max is achievable regardless of the number of covers you have. There is no level cap based on covers earned. You could start the game with a single red cover for IM35, somehow never pull another, and still get him to level 300 if you put the time into him. I have So it can be difficult to do a straight-across comparison, but some things I've seen so far:

IM35

2700 health at level 50 both on console and on Steam. Console is 3/5/0 at the moment, while Steam is 5/3/5, so I can't do a direct power comparison. However, Repulsor Blast at 3 covers on console is doing 770 damage at level 52. The wiki says 743 for 3 covers at level 50. That looks pretty close. Armored Assault at 5 covers on console is doing 336 damage at level 52, compared with the 324 damage wiki says is the cap for level 50 at 3, 4, or 5 covers on F2P. Again, close.

Ares

5880 health at level 94 for both console and Steam. Onslaught4 is doing 189/green consumed on console, compared with the 230 Onslaught4 does on F2P. Definite pullback, there. Console doesn't say anything about a damage increase at Onslaught5, so I don't know if a 5th cover there would get me to 230 @ 94.

So I know there was some talk about rebalancing because of the higher level caps, and maybe this is a sign of it - one of the more powerful abilities for lower-tier characters has been nerfed a little bit for console.

Juggernaut

Power costs, as discussed in a few places, have been tweaked - they still reduce as you gain covers, but now the cost floor is where the ceiling is on F2P. Health at level 40 on F2P is 3520. Health on console at level 88 is 7360. Damage on Headbutt at level 40/F2P is 1100 enemy/550 self. Headbutt at 88/console is doing 2300 enemy/1150 self.

Incidentally you can maybe see why Juggernaut is my highest-leveled character at 88/300 with those numbers. Especially since health packs aren't a thing.

Juggernaut and Ares both are more useful on console, actually, once the F2P mechanics go away. I mean, not that they're not useful in F2P, but their utility increases. Partly because you can get a 5/5/5 build on Ares, partly because what keeps you from spamming Sunder or Headbutt with abandon is knowing that you'll either have to wait for health regeneration or spend a health pack after the fight to undo that damage. Remove that mechanic, and the only possible drawback for using Sunder or Headbutt (or Sentry's Sacrifice, once you unlock him) is that if he dies in combat, he only gets somewhere between 40-50% of the XP for the fight that surviving teammates get. He's immediately full health and ready to go for the next fight after that.

Unknown

I got questions, but they're waiting on you getting to the end of the game.

Mainly.

If there is an end to the game.

Where does Iron Patriot fit into all this, damnit.

DFiPL

colwag wrote:

I got questions, but they're waiting on you getting to the end of the game.

Mainly.

If there is an end to the game.

Where does Iron Patriot fit into all this, damnit.

It's a good question. If the sub events aren't a thing it's going to be interesting to see how Thunderbolt Mountain gets handled in Prodigal Sun.

I would have guessed he'd be a loaner character there and that's how he'd drop. It looks like I'm going to have to do some grinding to finish Unstable ISO-8 though. I had to fight Yelena/Muscle/Spy three times to finally get past her. There's a Yelena/Muscle/Muscle node that scares me. I haven't tackled it yet, and since I can't move on til this story bit is finished...

Mawtful

Don't forget that this version is based off a branch of the code from sometime in 2014 (I think I recall IceIX saying it's from just before the last anniversary). Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the original Unstable ISO didn't have subs - nodes appeared and disappeared as each day of the event cycled. Heroics didn't have subs for a long time either. From The Hunt onwards you should be getting subs. There have still been some subtle changes to those older events too (Hulk/ISO Brotherhood/Simulator have been streamlined so that we're not juggling two subs at a time).

Quebbster

Mawtful wrote:

Don't forget that this version is based off a branch of the code from sometime in 2014 (I think I recall IceIX saying it's from just before the last anniversary). Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the original Unstable ISO didn't have subs - nodes appeared and disappeared as each day of the event cycled. Heroics didn't have subs for a long time either. From The Hunt onwards you should be getting subs. There have still been some subtle changes to those older events too (Hulk/ISO Brotherhood/Simulator have been streamlined so that we're not juggling two subs at a time).

This is correct. The original Unstable ISO was just one big map with nodes opening and closing at certain times.

Coppertouret

Add Coppertouret on ps4 for online play. Only been able to do one match. And he quit upon realization of his demise.

DFiPL

Bumped for a couple updates.

Also, if you buy the DLC - at least, if you buy the Doc Ock and Deadpool DLC - you get an Ock cover right away. Gotta unlock Deadpool, which I presume happens if you beat Deadpool vs MPQ. Also, there's a "Hard Mode." I think that might qualify as actual new content. No idea if the Hulk/Punisher DLC has a hard mode for that also.

I thought mine had landed at level 200, but after using him once in the Deadpool vs MPQ story bit, he gained enough XP to reach level 10, so I probably just need sleep.

Deadpool vs MPQ has essential nodes, but...nobody's essential. Seriously. Use whoever you want.

ZommyGD

Thanks for the info. Made me wanna buy it!

After or along with buying one console, that is.

Unknown

So I'm pretty far into the game so far (8th ISO-8 Brotherhood set called Saudi Arabia) and I have a grip of characters unlocked. My main team is around level 250ish. I gotta say, though I'm really enjoying the game, there's some things that are definitely bothersome and upsetting, such as:

1. The fact that though this game was from a code split, NONE of the characters got updated at all since the split 1 year ago. It's really sad that when you finally unlock a character you've been looking forward to, you realize that they're only 1/10th the worth of their mobile counterpart due to missing or different abilities. I've had Patch and The Hood for awhile, so I was anxiously awaiting to get Daredevil or Loki for their synergy with Patch. I finally unlocked daredevil but his radar sense is different and his blue isn't billy club, its some other **** ability. I unlocked Doctor Doom, and was super excited because he's a bad-****, except in this iteration he isn't, because he doesn't have his purple third ability. Doctor Doom only has his Summon Demons & Telepathic Strike. It's like this for a bunch of characters. They're either missing abilities or their abilities are their previous iterations before changes to make the characters viable. I asked for a response from the Devs if there was ever going to be an update to take the characters to their current iterations, but there has yet to be a response, even though they have responded to other posts in the same thread.

2. The way characters are unlocked. Now, if this game had daily/weekly events and such, this would not be an issue. The problem with it in the games current setup though is that if there's a character you really want to play, chances are you aren't going to get to until after the story is 2/3 or more complete already. As an example, the way you unlock Deadpool (if you have the DLC), is you have to beat Deadpool vs MPQ Hard Mode, which nodes start out at level 260. That means that by the time I can get my favorite character, I will have already beaten 99% of the story, if not the whole story. As stated, if there was weekly/daily events that you could use the characters on to keep activity fresh, it wouldn't be an issue, but since there is none, and 99.5% of the content is the story, not being able to use your favorite characters for most of the story kinda bites.

3. The fact that when you unlock a character they don't start at level 1 urks me too. Once I finally do unlock Deadpool, chances are he's going to be in the 260-290 level range, essentially robbing me the experience of leveling him, and making him a badass.


So i've complained about three things, but I don't want to just be negative, so here's what D3 can do to fix it.

1a. Update the frigg'n characters to their current iterations. This one is a no-brainer.

2a. This can be resolved by adding some daily/weekly events that we can do. They could be the exact same ones in the mobile version, but instead of winning prizes, just use a leaderboard. bragging rights and your name at the top of a list can be a huge motivator for a lot of people. The other option is instead of unlocking a specific character when we beat a certain node, give us a character token. We can then use that token to select which character we want to unlock.

3a. This one would be pretty easy to resolve too. Have all characters unlock at level 1. Also another idea to add onto that would be to impliment the ISO-8 system from the mobile version. We could use it to level up whichever characters we wanted, instead of only getting experience for the characters used at the time. We could use what characters we wanted (with limitations of course based on who you're fighting), and with the ISO-8 rewards, choose to level up said characters, or even put a little bit of it in each character we have.


So what do you guys think?

Unknown

MrAndroid wrote:

So i've complained about three things, but I don't want to just be negative, so here's what D3 can do to fix it.

1a. Update the frigg'n characters to their current iterations. This one is a no-brainer.

(Snipped the rest for space reasons)

This is the main reason holding me back from getting it, I'm so used to the characters and powers they have now, I couldn't get used to going back in time and playing with the old powers people used to have.

I know that the developer of the console game is Wayforward, not Demiurge Studios, but you'd think they would at least sort out all the powers and changes before they launched. I mean, some of them are over a year old.

It's a shame as I was really looking forward to it.

Unknown

Mawtful wrote:

Don't forget that this version is based off a branch of the code from sometime in 2014 (I think I recall IceIX saying it's from just before the last anniversary).

I think it's a split from right after the first anniversary, as I have a fully covered Devil Dinosaur. You get him in the savage land set of unstable iso-8.

DFiPL

MrAndroid wrote:

As an example, the way you unlock Deadpool (if you have the DLC), is you have to beat Deadpool vs MPQ Hard Mode, which nodes start out at level 260.

What

Not sure I'd have bought the DLC if I'd known that. Wow. Does he unlock fully covered or do you still have to build him?

Unknown

DFiPL wrote:

MrAndroid wrote:

As an example, the way you unlock Deadpool (if you have the DLC), is you have to beat Deadpool vs MPQ Hard Mode, which nodes start out at level 260.

What

Not sure I'd have bought the DLC if I'd known that. Wow. Does he unlock fully covered or do you still have to build him?

I honestly don't know as I haven't unlocked him yet.

Marty17

Are the enemies fixed level? i.e. doesn't scale up or goes down?

Unknown

DFiPL wrote:

MrAndroid wrote:

As an example, the way you unlock Deadpool (if you have the DLC), is you have to beat Deadpool vs MPQ Hard Mode, which nodes start out at level 260.

What

Not sure I'd have bought the DLC if I'd known that. Wow. Does he unlock fully covered or do you still have to build him?

Just unlocked him. Single cover, lvl 200.

Unknown

Marty17 wrote:

Are the enemies fixed level? i.e. doesn't scale up or goes down?

No scaling. Enemies are fixed level

DFiPL

MrAndroid wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

MrAndroid wrote:

As an example, the way you unlock Deadpool (if you have the DLC), is you have to beat Deadpool vs MPQ Hard Mode, which nodes start out at level 260.

What

Not sure I'd have bought the DLC if I'd known that. Wow. Does he unlock fully covered or do you still have to build him?

Just unlocked him. Single cover, lvl 200.

What's weird is I thought Ock was level 200, but after using him once he's level 10 now.

DFiPL

Update 3 posted!

OneLastGambit

MrAndroid wrote:

So I'm pretty far into the game so far (8th ISO-8 Brotherhood set called Saudi Arabia) and I have a grip of characters unlocked. My main team is around level 250ish. I gotta say, though I'm really enjoying the game, there's some things that are definitely bothersome and upsetting, such as:

1. The fact that though this game was from a code split, NONE of the characters got updated at all since the split 1 year ago. It's really sad that when you finally unlock a character you've been looking forward to, you realize that they're only 1/10th the worth of their mobile counterpart due to missing or different abilities. I've had Patch and The Hood for awhile, so I was anxiously awaiting to get Daredevil or Loki for their synergy with Patch. I finally unlocked daredevil but his radar sense is different and his blue isn't billy club, its some other **** ability. I unlocked Doctor Doom, and was super excited because he's a bad-****, except in this iteration he isn't, because he doesn't have his purple third ability. Doctor Doom only has his Summon Demons & Telepathic Strike. It's like this for a bunch of characters. They're either missing abilities or their abilities are their previous iterations before changes to make the characters viable. I asked for a response from the Devs if there was ever going to be an update to take the characters to their current iterations, but there has yet to be a response, even though they have responded to other posts in the same thread.

2. The way characters are unlocked. Now, if this game had daily/weekly events and such, this would not be an issue. The problem with it in the games current setup though is that if there's a character you really want to play, chances are you aren't going to get to until after the story is 2/3 or more complete already. As an example, the way you unlock Deadpool (if you have the DLC), is you have to beat Deadpool vs MPQ Hard Mode, which nodes start out at level 260. That means that by the time I can get my favorite character, I will have already beaten 99% of the story, if not the whole story. As stated, if there was weekly/daily events that you could use the characters on to keep activity fresh, it wouldn't be an issue, but since there is none, and 99.5% of the content is the story, not being able to use your favorite characters for most of the story kinda bites.

3. The fact that when you unlock a character they don't start at level 1 urks me too. Once I finally do unlock Deadpool, chances are he's going to be in the 260-290 level range, essentially robbing me the experience of leveling him, and making him a badass.


So i've complained about three things, but I don't want to just be negative, so here's what D3 can do to fix it.

1a. Update the frigg'n characters to their current iterations. This one is a no-brainer.

2a. This can be resolved by adding some daily/weekly events that we can do. They could be the exact same ones in the mobile version, but instead of winning prizes, just use a leaderboard. bragging rights and your name at the top of a list can be a huge motivator for a lot of people. The other option is instead of unlocking a specific character when we beat a certain node, give us a character token. We can then use that token to select which character we want to unlock.

3a. This one would be pretty easy to resolve too. Have all characters unlock at level 1. Also another idea to add onto that would be to impliment the ISO-8 system from the mobile version. We could use it to level up whichever characters we wanted, instead of only getting experience for the characters used at the time. We could use what characters we wanted (with limitations of course based on who you're fighting), and with the ISO-8 rewards, choose to level up said characters, or even put a little bit of it in each character we have.


So what do you guys think?

I thought about your points and had to counter to the third one. Using Iso to level up fits the mobile F2P model but console gamers play differently and expect different things. The idea of the characters levelling as you use them (I think) fits the console version better and means that you end up with a balanced roster. Because all of us mobile gamers are trying to do things as quickly as possible the iso model fits us better as we can then not waste time levelling characters we don't want to use, console gamers are not pressed for time so their needs are a little different, they want longevity from a game. Levelling characters by using them adds that longevity as it means you can't farm iso with your strongest 3 characters to level your weakest. Console gamers also tend to be collectivist people (though I've noticed this trend on these forums as well) and so collecting all characters is usually what they want anyway. I won't be getting console version just because there's not enough that's different to warrant me owning both versions, also I love the excitement I get towards the end of a PVE/PVP when you're desperately battling to make that extra place for that extra cover, that doesn't exist on console version.

Thanks for the post though, was enlightening to read about the console version. Great work.

brisashi

I'm curious how deadpool's whales ability works in a non f2p game, since they don't really care if you are playing daily or not.

Unknown

brisashi wrote:

I'm curious how deadpool's whales ability works in a non f2p game, since they don't really care if you are playing daily or not.

It still gives you daily points