What 5 Stars Bring to the Game

notamutant

I was thinking about our current two five stars, and what five stars in general add to the game. The obvious one is adding a new power level and end game to reach. That isn't so interesting and has already been addressed many times by other posts.

What most interests me about 5 stars is the evolution they show has come to the game. Most characters started off rather simply in one star and two star land. Three stars started to add some complexity with skills like Iron Fist's purple that swaps over if you had enough black AP to another skill. Then we had four stars like Ant-Man, who had the skill swap to another move once a special tile was out. Then we got to five stars, who so far, have each added on a new layer of complexity.

Silver Surfer really didn't add that much new. He is unstunnable, which is unique for playable characters, and has a special tile he creates. Otherwise, he isn't that unique (outside of his obvious extra power level). OML took it a step further, and is essentially two characters in one, considering his ability to swap skills. This is the direction that I think five stars need to continue to move in, as it is what they really bring to the game, far more importantly than just more power. Having additionally complexity and options really makes for a more interesting game.

I hope that they will continue this with the next five star release. For example, if they release Phoenix, I hope they will kind of do something similar to OML, like a Jean Grey before she goes Phoenix and a Jean Grey as the Phoenix. Maybe she only has 20k health, but once you kill her, she comes back as the Phoenix with a whole new move set (and her colors of skills all change). That would be a really unique thing to add to the game, the first character with 6 colors, and the first character capable of dying and coming back.

I think they really need to put a lot of thought into these five stars, and make sure to really come up with new ways to play, and not just more power, as that is what will make the game more interesting.

I am not sure if this belongs here or in the character discussion thread, as I wanted to talk about the general idea of what 5 stars bring to the game in general, in how it is played.

What do you think? Do you like more complex characters like OML, or do you prefer just a more powered up regular character like Silver Surfer? Do you want five stars to change the way you play the game that much?

Unknown

I do think there's room for a super-uncomplex character as Devil Dinosaur in 5* land, because something that's just "No gimmicks. Just hurts. A lot." as it's own weird little complexity and junk.

But I also think most of new stuff should be some fun new gimmick.

I still want to see a character with an ability that is just "Ends the turn" There's plenty of times where I don't want to make a move because it'd set up another move, but I can't find anything else to do.

It'd be funny if it was a 5*. "One of the most powerful abilities to bring to the game... is nothing."

thisone

End turn? Sounds like one of the worst ideas I ever heard. A 5* that when on defence will just end his turn? Sign me up to fight that dude!

I mean sure in theory I understand what you're getting at but board shake is already in the game..

Unknown

thisone wrote:

End turn? Sounds like one of the worst ideas I ever heard. A 5* that when on defence will just end his turn? Sign me up to fight that dude!

I mean sure in theory I understand what you're getting at but board shake is already in the game..

I say that as somebody who took advantage of, in the original Puzzle Quest, you could do a fake match to end your turn at the cost of some HP, and I used it on a regular basis. It's a move I would use even if it hurt me TO use it.

The base version I'm imagining would be an active, 0 AP ability (that doesn't trigger passives, obv.) that I guess if leveled up to max could generate AP in addition to ending the turn but that also feels like that could be pretty OP too.

Malcrof

colwag wrote:

I do think there's room for a super-uncomplex character as Devil Dinosaur in 5* land, because something that's just "No gimmicks. Just hurts. A lot." as it's own weird little complexity and junk.

as the 5* ranks grow, i think the complexity will be necessary, the fights , a team of 5* vs another team of 5*s, is going to take a while, so more complex skills add to the fun of a long fight... straight powers are fine, but nowhere near as much fun.

In 4* land, characters like JG, IM, Hulbuster, etc.. are ruling the land because they are very staightforward just plain damage, and they will be necessary to take on fledgling 5* teams in the future.. i think everything is on the right track.

thisone

colwag wrote:

thisone wrote:

End turn? Sounds like one of the worst ideas I ever heard. A 5* that when on defence will just end his turn? Sign me up to fight that dude!

I mean sure in theory I understand what you're getting at but board shake is already in the game..

I say that as somebody who took advantage of, in the original Puzzle Quest, you could do a fake match to end your turn at the cost of some HP, and I used it on a regular basis. It's a move I would use even if it hurt me TO use it.

The base version I'm imagining would be an active, 0 AP ability (that doesn't trigger passives, obv.) that I guess if leveled up to max could generate AP in addition to ending the turn but that also feels like that could be pretty OP too.

Yeah I still think board shake is just all round better. I mean sure end turn would have a use, albeit a niche one. I use acceleration or board shake so much I rarely get a board where I think damn if I match that it sets off a match 5! Or oh noes juggy gonna get to 6 red. But yeah I get it. You may have to make a match 5 against jean grey for example.

But it would be a laughably bad power or team up for the ai. Way worse than double double cross even. And if you pulled a 5* with one cover of this ability? You'd think man did I get ****!

Mawtful

Since ending the turn with no other effect just isn't going to fly for the AI, it'll need to have some other effect. I think a way to "collect" AP earned and/or damage dealt by the enemy team would be interesting and 5* worthy. Something like:

Creates a 1-turn countdown and ends the turn.
When the countdown reaches 0, generate 0.5 AP for each AP generated by the enemy team while the countdown was active and deal damage to the targeted enemy equal to 50% of the damage dealt while the countdown was active.

Ugh. That's grossly wordy and it still doesn't neatly convey the ability, but I think you should be able to understand the concept. Additional ranks would increase AP gained and damage dealt - up to 100% at rank 5.

There's a ton of character who would fit an ability like this, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it turn up sooner or later.

notamutant

Those are really 3 star powers, maybe 4 star. Nothing that would be special to a 5 star. What other unique things can be done with a 5 star? Maybe have an option to kill a teammate to absorb its health and deal extra damage for the rest of the match?

simonsez

thisone wrote:

End turn? Sounds like one of the worst ideas I ever heard.

You've never had a board where the only available match is going to set up a match4 in a color the AI needs? I'd much rather skip my turn and get the match4 for myself. Anyone who doesn't see the value in this needs to start thinking more than 1 move ahead.

thisone

simonsez wrote:

thisone wrote:

End turn? Sounds like one of the worst ideas I ever heard.

You've never had a board where the only available match is going to set up a match4 in a color the AI needs? I'd much rather skip my turn and get the match4 for myself. Anyone who doesn't see the value in this needs to start thinking more than 1 move ahead.

I have. I even gave examples of instances where it would be useful. I guess you missed them. Maybe looking too far ahead perhaps?

Crowl

colwag wrote:

I do think there's room for a super-uncomplex character as Devil Dinosaur in 5* land, because something that's just "No gimmicks. Just hurts. A lot." as it's own weird little complexity and junk.

They have probably gone too far with the power of 5* characters, having one without the various mechanisms that just hit really hard would be a terrible idea as if that was all they did then they would have to do it really well, far too well for anyone facing them.

notamutant

Crowl wrote:

colwag wrote:

I do think there's room for a super-uncomplex character as Devil Dinosaur in 5* land, because something that's just "No gimmicks. Just hurts. A lot." as it's own weird little complexity and junk.

They have probably gone too far with the power of 5* characters, having one without the various mechanisms that just hit really hard would be a terrible idea as if that was all they did then they would have to do it really well, far too well for anyone facing them.

Yeah, the match damage alone is a heavy hitting power. They can't make it any easier to do damage or it will just be more game-breaking. Like with Silver Surfer, he needs 13 AP for one of his damage moves, which you can stop, or 7 for another weaker damage move, so you really only need to deny him one color to only take match damage. OML needs 12 yellow before he can really break out the damage, so again, just deny AP and you only have to worry about match damage and strike tiles. They actually HAVE to make the 5 stars more complex to get off damaging moves, or it would be too much to overcome.

simonsez

thisone wrote:

I have.

If you have, that was an awful lot of pushback. ""Worst idea ever"?

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

thisone wrote:

I have.

If you have, that was an awful lot of pushback. ""Worst idea ever"?

He did also say "Board shakeup is better" which it obviously is.

It's just that it also costs AP you might not have, compared to an "End turn" free active/passive for "Not a Match"

Even the cheapest board shakeup is 3 AP you aren't guaranteed to have.

firethorne

I know I've had situations where my only move was to match my own countdown. But, gearing a skill to this seems like a big waste. The rate at how often this would happen for me would be well under 1 per fight on average. And, if that is indeed the only move, the AI is going to make it if I end the turn anyway, so you might as well take the match for match damage and ap. It would only help if there was one tick left. So, do we need a skill designed to avoid matching a countdown where there is no other match and it had one trick left? Way too niche. Give me a board shake any day.

Another option, how about a character with a passive, whenever you match a countdown, do damage based on number of ticks left.

Dragon_Nexus

I was thinking today that 5* was a poor choice of phrase for them.

It's clear they're done with 2*s now. It's very unlikely we'll get another 1* and I don't see them making any more 3*s. So that means 4*s are the go-to for new content, right?
5* is designed as a long-term goal. Very rare, takes a lot of time and money to level up and they outclass anything else. But...what happens when we have forty 4* characters in line with 3*s? Or do we stop at 50? Or 60? How long will THAT take to max out? It took me a year to get nearly evert 3* to where I need them (Still waiting on those last two Iron Fist covers, dammit).

5* is the end-game, naturally. But I can't help feeling having 4*s as the "in the mean time" level is kinda finite. Rather than 5* they should have been called something else. Infinite star or something. That way there is always another level we can go to with infinity star being the ultimate objective.

notamutant

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I was thinking today that 5* was a poor choice of phrase for them.

It's clear they're done with 2*s now. It's very unlikely we'll get another 1* and I don't see them making any more 3*s. So that means 4*s are the go-to for new content, right?
5* is designed as a long-term goal. Very rare, takes a lot of time and money to level up and they outclass anything else. But...what happens when we have forty 4* characters in line with 3*s? Or do we stop at 50? Or 60? How long will THAT take to max out? It took me a year to get nearly evert 3* to where I need them (Still waiting on those last two Iron Fist covers, dammit).

5* is the end-game, naturally. But I can't help feeling having 4*s as the "in the mean time" level is kinda finite. Rather than 5* they should have been called something else. Infinite star or something. That way there is always another level we can go to with infinity star being the ultimate objective.

I think you are assuming some sort of longevity that just doesn't exist for this type of game. To have lasted 2 years even is huge for a mobile game with no new real content besides characters. This game is going to be going slowly downhill as we near the third anniversary, and be pretty much dead shortly afterwards. Most games that are even more advanced and offer 10x more content don't even last 3 years.

My guess is they will keep releasing 4 stars and new user acquisition will slow, older people will quit as it becomes same old same old, and then they will release a better 4 star Deadpool Daily, getting people to stick around another 3-6 months, at which point that won't be enough. The lack of an end game will mean most people will quit.

thisone

simonsez wrote:

thisone wrote:

I have.

If you have, that was an awful lot of pushback. ""Worst idea ever"?

Yep. A little humorous hyperbole. But I've outlined exactly why I think it's such a bad idea for a 5* ability and debated with him. Not like I threw a meme out there, and loled at the guy.

Shame you went this route, I'll just put it down as a bad day at the office as I like most of your posts usually

_RiO_

notamutant wrote:

Maybe have an option to kill a teammate to absorb its health and deal extra damage for the rest of the match?

Helloooo--- Rogue...

lukewin

notamutant wrote:

I think you are assuming some sort of longevity that just doesn't exist for this type of game. To have lasted 2 years even is huge for a mobile game with no new real content besides characters. This game is going to be going slowly downhill as we near the third anniversary, and be pretty much dead shortly afterwards. Most games that are even more advanced and offer 10x more content don't even last 3 years.

My guess is they will keep releasing 4 stars and new user acquisition will slow, older people will quit as it becomes same old same old, and then they will release a better 4 star Deadpool Daily, getting people to stick around another 3-6 months, at which point that won't be enough. The lack of an end game will mean most people will quit.

While I don't think your timeline is too far off, I do have to agree that painting themselves into a corner by the way 5* have shifted the * tier system would explain that there is an end date in sight, and possibly, not due to incoming revenue. I wonder how long the Marvel license is held by D3/Demiurge in regards to Marvel Puzzle Quest. Maybe their decisions that have garnered ill will and have been viewed as negative, means that they don't mind losing customers/players because there is no need for long term retention. Maybe they are killing the golden goose looking for more eggs because they know it's dying anyways.

puppychow

lukewin wrote:

I wonder how long the Marvel license is held by D3/Demiurge in regards to Marvel Puzzle Quest. Maybe their decisions that have garnered ill will and have been viewed as negative, means that they don't mind losing customers/players because there is no need for long term retention. Maybe they are killing the golden goose looking for more eggs because they know it's dying anyways.

I too have doubts regarding the longevity of this game for the reasons stated. D3 had been going to tons of conventions this year to get new players to come in, and it HAS worked I've noticed (based on player rosters that I've seen). If a primary source of revenue for D3 is slot purchases, guess who is the more likely player to buy them--veterans or newbies?

The introduction of 5* tier, in my view, is primarily to raise additional revenue from the veteran players. And that too has worked.

So if you look at the overall picture, D3 is actively chasing revenue from both newbies and veterans this year. If they make changes that cause players to quit, no biggie. D3 will get more players to try the game and hopefully spend $$$.