Let's talk about buff some 3 stars ?

Unknown

Hi guys i wanted to create this topic to discuss some improvement that some characters still need to get on the game. I'll Talk about some characters that i think they need an urgent buff, if you have others feel free to talk.

I'll start with VISION. Let's look his abilities a little bit. Ok he has an interesting set of skills, you can build him up to be a heavy damge character or a defensive character,BUT, this is just in theory. You'll need at least 15 ap to hit 2259 + 723 AOE damage. Comparing with other AOE hiters, BP - 12 AP - 3,7K damage. Kk - 12 AP - 3,4 k damage. if you want to be a "defensive" character it's even worse, because, if there isn't any enemy Strike or Protect tiles his red became useless. But the real problem that i think that this character have, is that, no matter what you build him up, the AI will play with him like he can be both of the builds. If the AI puts a Blue countdown tile, and the next turn if the AI has sufficient Yellow AP, the AI, will change the previous Blue CD tile, and start a infinite loop, changing the CD tile. So this character need a real rework, If i saw him at pvp one or two times, it was a lot.

The next one its our super fast, super terrible , QUICKSILVER. Seriously i never saw a character that s*cks so much like quicksilver.Starting with his blue, whats the real point of this ability? you lock random team up tiles. just to disturb your board, and you can't move proprely your tiles. If this was the intention of the abaility, good work. But i forgot that if you have the super luck of having 4 locked tiles, you can reduce the cost of the his others insane abailities, 6 green AP, to hit 1,8k and create ONE critical tile, awesome. And 7 black Ap, to move TWO tiles, yeah two tiles, and hit 1,6k. I think there is no need to talk more about him.

For now I'm thinking on these two to get a buff, of course that is others that needs a buff too, like IM40, Spider-man...

Crowl

Ones like Psylocke, Ragnarok and of course IM40 seem like clear candidates to buff, not that we will see anything when a buffed powers could instead be used as a new one on a new character.

Unknown

I think psylocke is fine because her powers are so cheap even though her blue could be better. But im40 needs to be reworked, he is super slow and the ap drain on his powers are awful in a time where people have devastating attacks for much cheaper without a downside.
Ragnarok could use some more damage on his red and green especially since his green is so costly and hurts your team as well.
Punisher could also use a rework but I wouldn't know where to start. His red is the only move I actually enjoy of his.
As far as vision and quicksilver go I agree with the OP they suck especially in the AI's hands.

Unknown

Crowl wrote:

Ones like Psylocke, Ragnarok and of course IM40 seem like clear candidates to buff, not that we will see anything when a buffed powers could instead be used as a new one on a new character.

I ended up fully upgrading my psylocke ( given that she will be appearing in an upcoming movie ) and she is actually pretty good. Her abilities are cheap in terms of AP, so she is a good third wheel, and for things like "women of marvel" and for some PVE events she is good.

Regarding Ragnarok, D3 ruined him. Originally he was like Loki and Doom, a 3 star with only 2 powers who maxed out at level 140. He was good in that his powers were cheap and fed each other, and decently powerful. They added a power to the existing powers for Loki and Doom, but they totally rejigged Loki. Now he's annoying to fight, but borderline useless as someone on your roster ( unless you have everyone else buffed ). After the addition of the thirs color power, Loki became a tough little bugger, and Doc Doom can be a real hoss, but Ragnarok - borderline useless if you have other options.

Iron Man, as an old school 3 star character, is one who needs attention. Be it making his powers less AP, or rejigging them, until he is changed he is useless. HE has just been forgotten. As a player who has been around for > 500 days, I got alot of his covers initially and upgraded him ( in retrospect ) too much. I ignore him now and only use him when he is featured in a pve or pvp event. Otherwise he is the guy I donate to fellow alliance members.

Punisher... Poor Frank. He is another 3 star who has been around forever and thus has been forgotten. Again as a long time player I have a 166 punisher. His red power is pretty good, his black is decent, but his green I've never had good luck with. Given the expansion of the number of 3 stars, he just fell by the wayside as a non-priority.

Vision? Who knows. I have him covered but not upgraded. He seems like he COULD be absolutely nasty, but at the same rate, he COULD be absolutely useless. Sort of an all or nothing thing. Where to start? Who knows. But he is definitely not a priority and could use a buff.

Quicksilver. I have him covered to 12, and have no use for him. Perhaps if I was new and had no other option, but generally he does need a buff ( more like a complete revamping ).

In terms of say Spider man and Sentry most notably - they were originally highly powered / overpowered and were nerfed months ago. Spidey is actually fine now, given his pink power is annoyingly effective, and his blue and yellow can be aggravating. The only thing I would suggest with spidey is this - make his pink shield power the same as bullseye 2 star in that the opposing team can't destroy a shield tile without making a new one.

Regarding Sentry, who knows. He needs to be totally rejigged. His Sacrifice is OK, but it costs decent AP. His red and green powers CAN be OK, but punish his team unusually. He went from a character you didn't want to fight, to someone who really didn't matter.

This brings us to a few of the 3 star characters puked out by D3 before they started puking out 4 star characters. Specifically I'll mention beast and doc oc. They may be good, in absence of other well covered 3 star characters, but otherwise they need to be looked at. At best, they serve as a 3rd wheel, but given the deep number of 3 star characters, they are WAY on the low end.

Lastly.. Daredevil. Totally Defensive guy. He would be a character who could be REALLY useful in specific circumstances, otherwise useless.

As a guy who has pretty much every 3 star character, the majority of which are leveled to over 120, I've mentioned the characters who I have overlooked.

Sandwichboy

Doc Ock and Beast are actually severely underrated right now. Medical Marvel may be very meh, but Animal Inside is remarkably good considering how cheap it is, it's very good damage:AP and the fact that it can easily lead to cascades. And the improved Mutagenic Breakthrough is pretty solid, again because it's dirt cheap and only a 1 turn CD. Paired with Scarlet Witch, he's a solid mid tier 3*.

As for Doc Ock, put him with (or against) Carnage and good god is he nasty. Against any character that pumps out lots of special tiles, he is evil. Just for fun I used him against teams in Women of Marvel that included mohawk storm and Manipulation was oneshotting characters. Sure, he's primarily good just for offence (unless he's paired with Carnage) but he's nowhere near as bad as people still think he is.

Daredevil is fine. He's easily underestimated and can be incredibly annoying defensively. Slows down a lot of battles and the damage from you matching Ambush is not bad either.

IM40 doesn't need a complete rework so much as just dump the drains and lower the AP for his attacks. Then he goes from being useless to being like LThor; kinda boring but reliably effective damage dealer.

Spidey needs to dump Yellow as a heal and take a cue from his 1* counterpart and get some damage going. If he's the last guy left on your team he is screwed, and from a lore standpoint alone that's just stupid. Something that deals damage and places a web tile, and if X< web tiles exist it consumes them for extra damage. When he had the ability to completely lock down a team, his 100% defensive build worked. Now it just doesn't.

Quicksilver needs his numbers seriously tweaked. Blue needs to maybe do a bit less damage but require 2-3 locked tiles to go off, and the other powers need to do more damage. The idea of a speedster that requires that much buildup to do anything is laughably ironic.

Punisher would be an easy fix; increase the number of attack tiles generated by Molotov to 3 at max level (possibly increase the damage they do, but that might be overkill) and increase the cost of Judgement to 10 but allow you to place the hole he shoots in the board. Or keep it at 8 and have it end the turn.

Psylocke, also easy fix. Remove the limitation on red for PLACING the strike tiles, but keep the limitation on how much it reduces the cost. Still min 5 AP, but keep churning out strike tiles with it. Change Bewilder to a max drain of 5 from ALL colours. Still a CD, still deniable, but actually useful.

Vision...that's a tough one. Maybe turn the density powers into active/passives that still change his attack protocol when active but give lesser versions of the damage and defense boost as a passive? So he still hits harder and takes less damage in general, but can temporarily boost those with a CD that gets consumed with attack protocol.

Bullseye and Captain Marvel need some tweaks to their damage numbers to make them anything approaching competitive 3*s, and Gamora would be a hell of a lot more effective with a change to her black power of a strike tile for every 2 of her symbols. Maybe a slight tweak to her damage.

Sentry...Should be deleted from the game. Stupidest Gary Stu character added to the comics in years and now he's useless in game. Just get rid of him. Please.

Unknown

Sandwichboy wrote:

Doc Ock and Beast are actually severely underrated right now. Medical Marvel may be very meh, but Animal Inside is remarkably good considering how cheap it is, it's very good damage:AP and the fact that it can easily lead to cascades. And the improved Mutagenic Breakthrough is pretty solid, again because it's dirt cheap and only a 1 turn CD. Paired with Scarlet Witch, he's a solid mid tier 3*.

As for Doc Ock, put him with (or against) Carnage and good god is he nasty. Against any character that pumps out lots of special tiles, he is evil. Just for fun I used him against teams in Women of Marvel that included mohawk storm and Manipulation was oneshotting characters. Sure, he's primarily good just for offence (unless he's paired with Carnage) but he's nowhere near as bad as people still think he is.

Daredevil is fine. He's easily underestimated and can be incredibly annoying defensively. Slows down a lot of battles and the damage from you matching Ambush is not bad either.

IM40 doesn't need a complete rework so much as just dump the drains and lower the AP for his attacks. Then he goes from being useless to being like LThor; kinda boring but reliably effective damage dealer.

Spidey needs to dump Yellow as a heal and take a cue from his 1* counterpart and get some damage going. If he's the last guy left on your team he is screwed, and from a lore standpoint alone that's just stupid. Something that deals damage and places a web tile, and if X< web tiles exist it consumes them for extra damage. When he had the ability to completely lock down a team, his 100% defensive build worked. Now it just doesn't.

Quicksilver needs his numbers seriously tweaked. Blue needs to maybe do a bit less damage but require 2-3 locked tiles to go off, and the other powers need to do more damage. The idea of a speedster that requires that much buildup to do anything is laughably ironic.

Punisher would be an easy fix; increase the number of attack tiles generated by Molotov to 3 at max level (possibly increase the damage they do, but that might be overkill) and increase the cost of Judgement to 10 but allow you to place the hole he shoots in the board. Or keep it at 8 and have it end the turn.

Psylocke, also easy fix. Remove the limitation on red for PLACING the strike tiles, but keep the limitation on how much it reduces the cost. Still min 5 AP, but keep churning out strike tiles with it. Change Bewilder to a max drain of 5 from ALL colours. Still a CD, still deniable, but actually useful.

Vision...that's a tough one. Maybe turn the density powers into active/passives that still change his attack protocol when active but give lesser versions of the damage and defense boost as a passive? So he still hits harder and takes less damage in general, but can temporarily boost those with a CD that gets consumed with attack protocol.

Bullseye and Captain Marvel need some tweaks to their damage numbers to make them anything approaching competitive 3*s, and Gamora would be a hell of a lot more effective with a change to her black power of a strike tile for every 2 of her symbols. Maybe a slight tweak to her damage.

Sentry...Should be deleted from the game. Stupidest Gary Stu character added to the comics in years and now he's useless in game. Just get rid of him. Please.

I like that comment about it. Only disagree with Bewilder of Psylocke and the judgment of the punisher. I agree that Punisher should choose the location of the shooting but should not have increased AP or loss of turn.

ronin_san

Let punisher's immediately drop one attack tile. Let me target with his . Fixed.

Decrease the cost on Psylocke's or at least make it do something if it gets destroyed.

Buff Hulk's and remove the team damage component to his . Maybe mix in a little Colossus' red, in that if he has enough green, it does dmg to the team. Also, he needs more HP. HE SHOULD HAVE LIKE 13k as a 3*...

Bullseye should have fewer albeit stronger attack tiles, and if they are destroyed, he should gain ap. This means there is no easy way to kill Bullseye, and that is how he should be.

Sandwichboy

8 green for a targeted 3x3 hole AND 3 strike tiles is 4* territory. Even that might be understating it. Being able to take out a critical spot for that little and boost your damage without any negative adjustment would be seriously overpowered. That's exactly why Hood's yellow ends the turn, and that's a lot more than 8 ap (yes I know it also does a ton more damage, but it's also clearing 18 tiles instead of 9 and adding strike tiles.) He SHOULD be able to target it, but without some sort of balancing adjustment to cost or number/power of strike tiles, etc, it would instantly be one of the most powerful utility powers in the game.

ronin_san

Sandwichboy wrote:

8 green for a targeted 3x3 hole AND 3 strike tiles is 4* territory. Even that might be understating it. Being able to take out a critical spot for that little and boost your damage without any negative adjustment would be seriously overpowered. That's exactly why Hood's yellow ends the turn, and that's a lot more than 8 ap (yes I know it also does a ton more damage, but it's also clearing 18 tiles instead of 9 and adding strike tiles.) He SHOULD be able to target it, but without some sort of balancing adjustment to cost or number/power of strike tiles, etc, it would instantly be one of the most powerful utility powers in the game.

Fine. Make it a 2x2. If I can target it, it'll increase its functionality big time.

frostCoH

Just reduce some of the AP cost on these guys.

Unknown

Psylocke's blue could stand to be revamped with the "per tick" tech like Ant-Man and Squirrel Girl use, with the AP drain popping each tick of the CD tile, for a lower total amount.

The poll I recently ran indicated by and far that Iron Man and Spidey are the top 2 3 stars in need of a fix, however.

Sandwichboy

Haetron wrote:

Psylocke's blue could stand to be revamped with the "per tick" tech like Ant-Man and Squirrel Girl use, with the AP drain popping each tick of the CD tile, for a lower total amount.

The poll I recently ran indicated by and far that Iron Man and Spidey are the top 2 3 stars in need of a fix, however.

Yeah that would definitely be a useful improvement, and hey, it'd even make one of bag-man's powers slightly more useful!

But no question that spidey and IM40 desperately need fixing. At least when he's mandatory, IM40 brings the moderate usefulness of recharge with him. Spidey is just dead weight, and it's even more absurd compared to the 1* version.

Unknown

Just make everyone op for their star level and individualize em?

ErikPeter

Seems to me a lot of these 'issues' talk about viability of characters in PvP only. But the reality is that different characters have different strengths.

Punisher's not so bad. Anyone complaining about his green doesn't have it at 5 ranks; the strength is in the Strikes, making it targeted misses the point of who Punisher is. The tile destruction is there to shuffle the board a little more and sometimes cascade, to bring more green onto the board so you can use Judgment again. ... That said I do think they could buff him a bit damage numbers-wise to put him on par with other 3*. Retribution did get a big buff when they boosted everyone's HP.

Quicksilver is quite strong when paired with Invisible Woman. Force Bubbles make blue is super easy to detonate and his cheap green and black powers (if you've locked some tiles) are very useful on offense/PvE. A tile swap + damage for 7 AP is really good. And while he's not defensive in PvP, his at least the locked tiles make him annoying to play against. If he's powered up, I don't want to fight him, because the AI always manages to get some blue cascades.

Spider-Man is great in PvE as well. His protect tiles are really strong. And while heals aren't worth the AP in even-level fights (when you're better off just dealing damage), Web Bandages can be crucial in high-level Simulator fights. Pair him with Scarlet Witch and you will have lots of defense and lots of stuns.

BlackSheep101

ErikPeter wrote:

And while he's not defensive in PvP, his at least his horrible animation will make him annoying to play against.

FTFY. Locked team up tiles very rarely cause me consternation. That pause and the zippy little flash that happens every time someone makes a blue match? Way, way worse.

Unknown

ErikPeter wrote:

Seems to me a lot of these 'issues' talk about viability of characters in PvP only. But the reality is that different characters have different strengths.

Punisher's not so bad. Anyone complaining about his green doesn't have it at 5 ranks; the strength is in the Strikes, making it targeted misses the point of who Punisher is. The tile destruction is there to shuffle the board a little more and sometimes cascade, to bring more green onto the board so you can use Judgment again. ... That said I do think they could buff him a bit damage numbers-wise to put him on par with other 3*. Retribution did get a big buff when they boosted everyone's HP.

Quicksilver is quite strong when paired with Invisible Woman. Force Bubbles make blue is super easy to detonate and his cheap green and black powers (if you've locked some tiles) are very useful on offense/PvE. A tile swap + damage for 7 AP is really good. And while he's not defensive in PvP, his at least the locked tiles make him annoying to play against. If he's powered up, I don't want to fight him, because the AI always manages to get some blue cascades.

Spider-Man is great in PvE as well. His protect tiles are really strong. And while heals aren't worth the AP in even-level fights (when you're better off just dealing damage), Web Bandages can be crucial in high-level Simulator fights. Pair him with Scarlet Witch and you will have lots of defense and lots of stuns.

The Punisher problem is the randomness of Judgement. He often takes my protect tiles or his own strikes made earlier. Hardly also removes any special tile on the board, as the purple blade. Even moving to 10AP your green I prefer than the current one.

Sandwichboy

Saying "this character works in PVE" is kind of meaningless since that's valid for literally every character. Sure, Spiderman has decent protect tiles, but are you going to use him over pretty much any other 3* that you have equally leveled? I sure as hell wouldn't. The only time I've used him at all in the past six months was on one of the final simulator nodes with Jean, Iceman and Cyclops, and that was entirely for his low cost stun.

And Punisher's green being all about the strike tiles would be a valid argument if they weren't WAY below the power of a lot of other 3* strike tile generators. The point isn't that Punisher is bad, because he isn't. He's just been completely left behind to the point of irrelevance. Retribution is great against 4 and 5 star characters, but judgement is too erratic and doesn't give strong enough strike tiles to offset the risk of you trashing your own specials, and molotov is just...weak in every way.

As for Quicksilver, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone else that thinks he's a scarecrow when buffed. He sucks. He is the antithesis of a fast character, and he hits like a wet noodle. Even in PVE there are so many far better, faster and more fun characters to use than him.

ronin_san

vinicius18 wrote:

The Punisher problem is the randomness of Judgement. He often takes my protect tiles or his own strikes made earlier. Hardly also removes any special tile on the board, as the purple blade. Even moving to 10AP your green I prefer than the current one.

What if we got to choose one of four quadrants of the board, and it randomly destroyed a 3x3 there? I'd be willing to concede a 2x2 if I got to choose which part of the board it nukes.

Unknown

ronin-san wrote:

vinicius18 wrote:

The Punisher problem is the randomness of Judgement. He often takes my protect tiles or his own strikes made earlier. Hardly also removes any special tile on the board, as the purple blade. Even moving to 10AP your green I prefer than the current one.

What if we got to choose one of four quadrants of the board, and it randomly destroyed a 3x3 there? I'd be willing to concede a 2x2 if I got to choose which part of the board it nukes.

Choosing the location can be 10AP green, 3x3 or 2x2.

elwhiteninja

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