4*ARE more obtainable now

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  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,401 Chairperson of the Boards
    UncleSmed wrote:
    slidecage wrote:

    and this is why the gap between those who can make it and those who cant will grow so much it will turn many away in 3 months

    You're not seeing the positive there slide.
    If the system creates a power gap, it means D3 can niche build a solution (a la DDQ) to bridge that transition.

    And having seen them do it in the past, I trust them to make a non-competitive and feasible solution.

    Just have a little faith
    After so many days played, they do pay out.

    i think they are going to be making new ways to play in 2016. I could see 2 pvp running at the same time (one that allows just up to 3 stars and another with 4 and 5 stars) Maybe same with PVE. There is no way the company will be able to stay how its ran now in the next 6 to 9 months
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Four stars I got from tokens this season:
    3 icon_antman.png (Already had one purple)
    3 icon_deadpool.png (new)
    1 icon_nickfury.png (already had 3 covers)
    1 icon_elektra.png (new)
    1 icon_kingpin.png (new)
    1 icon_professorx.png (new)
    1 icon_iceman.png (new)

    Only 4 of them have been from Legendary tokens. I'm incredibly far from having any usable 4 star, but as someone who mostly plays PvE being able to hit all nodes is extremely helpful and seems to be the only real way to hit top 50 to get some HP. I'm a few days out from icon_devildino.png in resupply and the anniversary is coming up. So I'm pretty thankful for the changes all around.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    firethorne wrote:
    The real problem is still that getting the 4* acquisition train really rolling requires having fairly good rosters in the first place. I'm in a fairly newbie friendly alliance, and I'm seeing them struggling more.

    Take the current PvP, with placement awards for She-Hulk. The top 10 all have maxed She-Hulks. I'd imagine that is the case for many placing highly. So, some people that actually want those rewards are getting slaughtered by max Fistbustbusters and other various 4* teams, because they're in it for progression and season points. So, I do see a divide where it is better for some, but worse if you were already struggling.
    It is a problem but i agree with it,b4 ppl without good rosters were required to do their time in pve this is still the case but with a guaranteed 4 star at the end of it.the ppl who have put a lot of money or time into the game are being rewarded as it should be.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    In January of 2015, top 100 alliance players could reasonably expect a new 3* to be playable in a little over a month. Basically by the time that character rotated back around for a second PVP event you would probably have 10-13 covers depending on luck. With the current 4* model it will take much much longer for non-whales to max out any new character.

    If I can indulge in a not-so-humble-brag session, I think that I am a fairly high-tier veteran player, not top-of-the-line, but probably better than 95% of players. I have a basically complete 3* roster, and 5 or 6 4*s covered and leveled above 166 (including at least one top tier one in IMHB). I have only just gotten Prof. X and Kingpin anywhere close to usability. So that's about 5 months for me, someone who gets just about every useful 1k reward and is in a top 100 PVP alliance. Sure, some people have done the same thing in less time. But I bet that most people are well behind that pace, and that doesn't seem like a sustainable model when a new 4* is coming out every 2 weeks.

    Yep, this. I've hit 1K basically every time since they changed the scoring rules - and I am no-where close to having any but the first six or so 4*'s covered. The 4* transition is taking forever, and every new character slows it down further. Way, way longer than the 3* transition (iso-wise as well!)
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    it is reasonable that the 4* transition SHOULD be longer than the 3*, but not waaaay longer like it is now, and getting more drawn out with every new release. hopefully something will be intro'ed for season 20 that alleviates it a little.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    SnowcaTT wrote:

    Yep, this. I've hit 1K basically every time since they changed the scoring rules - and I am no-where close to having any but the first six or so 4*'s covered. The 4* transition is taking forever, and every new character slows it down further. Way, way longer than the 3* transition (iso-wise as well!)


    Right, with the 3* transition, the first character or two took a very long time, but after you had a decent 3* team, you could join a top 100 alliance and the pace of transition really picked up. I leveled my first 3*s up to 160 right around early January 2015. But the beginning of march I had something like a dozen fully covered 3*s, and that's even before the DDQ really pushed my transition into overdrive.

    But with the 4* transition, even after you get the first one finished, there isn't much of an acceleration. You can still get the 1k cover with your 3*/4* roster. you will occasionally get a legendary token from the 4* ddq whenever your 4* comes up in rotation, and you hope for token luck. There isn't really a critical mass phenomenon with 4*s the way there was for 3*s, where having a toe in the 3* pool affords you many more ways to earn 3*s. With 4*s, you need a basically complete 4* roster to get access to the extra legendary tokens at 1300 and in the 4* ddq (yes, I realize that the 1300 token is possible with a 3* roster, but only when strong 3*s are boosted and it can be expensive. the only people who get that token reliably are those with top tier 4*s who can play most or all of the way to 1300 before shielding at all).

    And Moose, I don't know that it is reasonable for the 4* transition to take longer than the * transition. 4* is the heart of the endgame, the way 3* was at this time last year. And new 4*s are coming out at the same frequency as 3*s used to. Why should the transition be any longer?
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    But with the 4* transition, even after you get the first one finished, there isn't much of an acceleration. You can still get the 1k cover with your 3*/4* roster. you will occasionally get a legendary token from the 4* ddq whenever your 4* comes up in rotation, and you hope for token luck. There isn't really a critical mass phenomenon with 4*s the way there was for 3*s, where having a toe in the 3* pool affords you many more ways to earn 3*s. With 4*s, you need a basically complete 4* roster to get access to the extra legendary tokens at 1300 and in the 4* ddq (yes, I realize that the 1300 token is possible with a 3* roster, but only when strong 3*s are boosted and it can be expensive. the only people who get that token reliably are those with top tier 4*s who can play most or all of the way to 1300 before shielding at all).

    This is why I keep hoping they split up the PVP's. They talk about boosting 4*'s more...which will make 3*'s even -more- irrelevant than they are now. They have made 4* the way to get legendaries and transition to 5* (sort of...really transition better to 4*) - they need to make a transition to 4*.

    I'd love to see a 3* (boosted like now)/4* (not boosted) PVP that transitions you to 4*: this would keep 3*'s relevant. If serious about transitioning to 4*, you could make individual/alliance rewards be 4*'s. Here you would have a 3*->4* transition: something that is really lacking now.

    Then a -different- PVP that uses the boosted 4*'s and 5*'s, giving legendary tokens (or better!) rewards: this would keep having all the 4*'s covered/leveled important.

    The DDQ legendary token nodes are the same. You have to have a good (not max, but somewhat leveled and covered) 4* to have a chance at the 5*....this isn't a 3*->4* transition though. It would have been much better if it was similar to the original DDQ nodes: fine to have a low-level 4* essential to unlock the harder node to earn another one of those 4*'s: this is a 3*->4* transition.

    Pretty soon we'll be to a point that you need a daily 4* anyway. Right now you have 17 characters x 13 covers: 221 days if you got one you needed every single day. With a pace of two 4*'s a month (not season, for the occasional 3*/2*/1* that is unlikely) you'll have 29 characters in March - which will be 377 needed covers - at which point even if you got one a day you wouldn't be covered in a year.
  • LegendReborn
    LegendReborn Posts: 301
    Of course, one of the biggest snags in the prospect of split PVPs is the fact that alliance rankings are attached to our PVP performance. If you segregate PVPs, it not only becomes a more segregated system but it also means they'd have to reevaluate the alliance rewards for PVP, both individual event and seasonal. I think that's the biggest reason they haven't tried splitting PVP into tiers (and the extra work associated with all of that rebalancing). The easiest short term response that doesn't require that segregation would be lowering the progression rewards and revamping the placement rewards but, like others stated, it's hard to do that without throwing even more 4 star covers at the hardcore/whale base if you want to start adding in new 4* rewards.

    That's why I think the least they could do is lower the placement requirements for earning 3*s and lowering the progression requirements for the 4*s, at the very least the 1k reward. It wouldn't give the high scorers any extra covers but it would actually accelerate the 4* transition for the actual transitioners.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    Pretty soon we'll be to a point that you need a daily 4* anyway. Right now you have 17 characters x 13 covers: 221 days if you got one you needed every single day. With a pace of two 4*'s a month (not season, for the occasional 3*/2*/1* that is unlikely) you'll have 29 characters in March - which will be 377 needed covers - at which point even if you got one a day you wouldn't be covered in a year.
    Anybody know how many 3* were out when daily DDQ 3* rewards were added? I was on walkabout when that happened. (In fact, DDQ was one of the things that sucked me back in.)
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    DayvBang wrote:
    Anybody know how many 3* were out when daily DDQ 3* rewards were added? I was on walkabout when that happened. (In fact, DDQ was one of the things that sucked me back in.)

    Let's see, DDQ came out at the beginning of march 2015. I think Iron Fist had just been released, but wasn't added to the ddq pool until the second cover rotation.

    So the last 3*s were Iron Fist, Kamala Khan, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, and Bullseye? Did I miss any?

    That would mean that 34 3*s were in the pool when ddq was released.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    DayvBang wrote:
    Anybody know how many 3* were out when daily DDQ 3* rewards were added? I was on walkabout when that happened. (In fact, DDQ was one of the things that sucked me back in.)

    Let's see, DDQ came out at the beginning of march 2015. I think Iron Fist had just been released, but wasn't added to the ddq pool until the second cover rotation.

    So the last 3*s were Iron Fist, Kamala Khan, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, and Bullseye? Did I miss any?

    That would mean that 34 3*s were in the pool when ddq was released.
    so, an apples to apples ddq would be basically a 4* node every other day.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    Prof x from heroic this morning sl from 7500 progression and red goddess from 1k progression
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    They are more attainable in general, yes, but wait until you get one almost fully covered and realize that the legendary tokens have actually now reduced your ability to actively go after those last covers you need to finish someone and you may end up waiting months just for that single cover of the right color to pop up again. Fun times.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    Vilkata wrote:
    They are more attainable in general, yes, but wait until you get one almost fully covered and realize that the legendary tokens have actually now reduced your ability to actively go after those last covers you need to finish someone and you may end up waiting months just for that single cover of the right color to pop up again. Fun times.
    When that day comes ill know iv made it;)
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vilkata wrote:
    They are more attainable in general, yes, but wait until you get one almost fully covered and realize that the legendary tokens have actually now reduced your ability to actively go after those last covers you need to finish someone and you may end up waiting months just for that single cover of the right color to pop up again. Fun times.

    This is the real problem with 4* transition at the moment. There is no way to get more than one cover for any given character in any event post-release. That makes is very hard to build any characters without direct buy or absurd token luck.

    From demiurge's perspective, the randomness of rewards has an obvious monetary advantage, but it is becoming a very player unfriendly element of the game as the 4* pool grows deeper.

    Hopefully they will be addressing this problem in the near term. I think they have already said that regular 4* pvp events are on the horizon. I hope they add more than just one 1k cover to those events. and there is also the upcoming new gameplay feature that was teased in response to people's complaints about 4* ddq.
  • GMadMan040
    GMadMan040 Posts: 207
    In response to the title line - It's raining Elektra, Starlord and IW!!! Everybody celebrate!!! icon_lol.gif
  • Lee T
    Lee T Posts: 318
    GMadMan040 wrote:
    In response to the title line - It's raining Elektra, Starlord and IW!!! Everybody celebrate!!! icon_lol.gif

    I'd take take them.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    A 4 star moonstone for season rewards but a thing cover from a heroic made up 4 it:)
  • ammenell
    ammenell Posts: 817 Critical Contributor
    dont know what games you guys are playing.
    my last ... 20? event tokens from pvp/pve were all 2*s.
    i just want a single scarlet witch cover, from that moment on i play ddq and nothing else
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    ammenell wrote:
    dont know what games you guys are playing.
    my last ... 20? event tokens from pvp/pve were all 2*s.
    i just want a single scarlet witch cover, from that moment on i play ddq and nothing else
    Thats some bad luck you got there...

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