over a year in: reflecting

loroku

Hello all, been a while. Just wanted to text wall some observations now that I'm over 365 days (383 actually).

First: 3* transition. I knew it would be horrible and it was; the game design is fundamentally flawed ever since they started introducing a new character every other week. But the good news is: thanks to the devs switching to 4* and now 5*s, they've slacked off on the 3*s - which is awesome! I'm now tied for the closest I've ever come to getting them all - only missing 1! I expect a slew of new 3*s soon just to make sure I never make it.

However, some good news: one thing about this game is that the rewards are random - which sucks - but they are pretty evenly random. So once I got my very first fully, correctly covered 166 character at day 343 (roughly 11 months in), it took less than a month to get two more. And for the first time ever (for me), I actually have two MORE fully, correctly covered 3*s who are just waiting on ISO at this point - something on the order of about 100k each, sadly. But still, the takeaway is that all my characters are progressing at the same incredibly slow pace, but they're starting to really get there! And now that they've stopped making new ones they can actually catch up! For example, I have at least 5 more characters that are just two correct covers away from also being fully, correctly covered. So that's a big improvement in the overall game - relatively. I know it sucks for everyone trying to do 4*s now, of course.

Second: DDQ. Absolutely the entire game for me anymore. Such a great thing to add, although it also highlights how terrible the PvE rewards are. But it's perfect: a few minutes a day to get a couple infinitely small chances at covers with a 3* reward for a few minutes more that keeps me logging in, helping my alliance, and staying connected to a game I would have long since dumped. I will do DDQ even when there is an event I actually want to participate in, I like it so much. The only downsides are that I've started to expect to only play the game for less than an hour a day - which is laughable if you actually want to progress at all (that's like 8+ hrs a day) - and it just makes me hate PvE so much, which I used to love, since that requires a massive, MASSIVE time commitment to do anything, and it's never, ever worth it. (I recently tried for the progression reward in PvE since they introduced the 4* reward. Yeah, right. I got about 20-25% of the way there. I forgot that it takes soooo... muuuuch... tiiiiime... to get anything. And if you want to rank? Yeaaaaah.)

Third: new 4* rewards. Well, at first I thought they'd be awesome, so I was excited! Then I realized that they actually made it harder for players like me to get more 4* covers, which made me sad. I'll explain: new progression rewards? Nope, way too much time required for either PvE or PvP. Tiny % increase in heroic or event packs? Never get those anymore, also HAHAHAHA - .000001*2 is still nothing. DDQ Legendary token? You took another 4* out, so that does nothing. 4* DDQ matchups? LOL, you need a strong 4* character to attempt those and I just now reached the 3* progression! (It's kind of fun to see how many rounds until you die, though.) Alliance rewards, high-end PvP rewards, etc. - all mean nothing to me. So what are we left with?

Well, the only way I ever get 4* characters comes down to only 3 ways: 1* packs (extremely rare but you get thousands of them), daily log in rewards, and recently the extremely rare DDQ reward (1% chance). However, 1* packs don't seem to have 4*s in them anymore! That was easily 40-50% of the 4* characters I have! (Daily rewards were another 40-50%. I don't have many.) So sadly, all they've done is made it HARDER for me to have a win-the-lottery-style chance of ever getting more 4* characters. Ah well. After a year, this is exactly the sort of change you expect: something that looks great if you play 8+ hrs a day, and generally is very harsh on casuals. (DDQ being the major exception.)

Fourth: Events. Man, I've never been so excited to be disappointed in a game! I love that they keep trying, but wow they have a poor track record. Gauntlet? Nope. Anniversary last year? HAHAHA. Wow that was horrible. Ultron? Well it would have been great... except, no, sorry. Ultron 2? Wait, you didn't want a reward for playing, did you? This year's anniversary? Well considering last year (1st) they forgot it existed until the forums literally caught on fire, I am sure they will do something, but I am also sure to keep my expectations low. But even having said all that: I wish there were more! Really, I just wish there were anything more to this game (other than new characters, since those make the game worse), but the events are definitely the most interesting - even if it's just to watch for the train wreck. Looking at the news it seems like they have more planned, and I say: go for it!


So yeah, I don't have a lot to say about specific characters or nerfs or buffs or any of that. I've long since given up on the idea that they will ever make the game balanced, or there will ever be more than 2-5 characters per * level worth playing. But that's ok, because this game is about collecting - no matter how intentionally difficult they make that - and enjoying what is basically bejeweled with a fun license. And it's still ultimately a fun game, even if every day you don't put in at least 4 hours you've actually lost ground thanks to the moving goalposts. You just can't actually care about any of that, and just enjoy the small victories: like finally getting a single 3* fully, correctly covered after only 11 freaking months. Or getting Nick Fury through 3 whole rounds before 270 Magneto killed him. Or remembering to come post on this long-forgotten forum about how even though I can't stand so much of this game, it's still really fun and I still play! So kuddos for getting something right at least!

Edit: Forgot one thing. I love how when I finally get nearly all the 3*s - the original intent of which was to be able to never miss a required character in PvE - they make 4* characters required in PvE. Exactly.

Unknown

As a 3* transitioner, I do see where you're coming from. But honestly, if you don't like it, then don't play.

loroku wrote:

Second: DDQ. Absolutely the entire game for me anymore. Such a great thing to add, although it also highlights how terrible the PvE rewards are. But it's perfect: a few minutes a day to get a couple infinitely small chances at covers with a 3* reward for a few minutes more that keeps me logging in, helping my alliance, and staying connected to a game I would have long since dumped. I will do DDQ even when there is an event I actually want to participate in, I like it so much. The only downsides are that I've started to expect to only play the game for less than an hour a day - which is laughable if you actually want to progress at all (that's like 8+ hrs a day) - and it just makes me hate PvE so much, which I used to love, since that requires a massive, MASSIVE time commitment to do anything, and it's never, ever worth it. (I recently tried for the progression reward in PvE since they introduced the 4* reward. Yeah, right. I got about 20-25% of the way there. I forgot that it takes soooo... muuuuch... tiiiiime... to get anything. And if you want to rank? Yeaaaaah.)

3 PVE clears a day (about an hour and a half total) will get you to the legendary token and usually T100 placement. If you're missing essentials, then you might have to grind a bit, but it's definitely doable.

loroku wrote:

Third: new 4* rewards. Well, at first I thought they'd be awesome, so I was excited! Then I realized that they actually made it harder for players like me to get more 4* covers, which made me sad. I'll explain: new progression rewards? Nope, way too much time required for either PvE or PvP. Tiny % increase in heroic or event packs? Never get those anymore, also HAHAHAHA - .000001*2 is still nothing. DDQ Legendary token? You took another 4* out, so that does nothing. 4* DDQ matchups? LOL, you need a strong 4* character to attempt those and I just now reached the 3* progression! (It's kind of fun to see how many rounds until you die, though.) Alliance rewards, high-end PvP rewards, etc. - all mean nothing to me. So what are we left with?

Well, the only way I ever get 4* characters comes down to only 3 ways: 1* packs (extremely rare but you get thousands of them), daily log in rewards, and recently the extremely rare DDQ reward (1% chance). However, 1* packs don't seem to have 4*s in them anymore! That was easily 40-50% of the 4* characters I have! (Daily rewards were another 40-50%. I don't have many.) So sadly, all they've done is made it HARDER for me to have a win-the-lottery-style chance of ever getting more 4* characters. Ah well. After a year, this is exactly the sort of change you expect: something that looks great if you play 8+ hrs a day, and generally is very harsh on casuals. (DDQ being the major exception.)

Getting a heroic is as simple as hitting T400 in a PVE sub. Should be easily attainable for less than an hour of play a day. And Standard tokens didn't get the 4*'s taken out - they just don't list them because the chance is so small that players who don't know would feel betrayed because they never draw any 4*'s. The probability hasn't changed. 8 hours a day is really only if you feel the need to chase T25+ placement. I'm a consistent T50 in PVE and occasional T100 PVP, and I'll play maybe 2 hours a day.

loroku wrote:

Fourth: Events. Man, I've never been so excited to be disappointed in a game! I love that they keep trying, but wow they have a poor track record. Gauntlet? Nope. Anniversary last year? HAHAHA. Wow that was horrible. Ultron? Well it would have been great... except, no, sorry. Ultron 2? Wait, you didn't want a reward for playing, did you? This year's anniversary? Well considering last year (1st) they forgot it existed until the forums literally caught on fire, I am sure they will do something, but I am also sure to keep my expectations low. But even having said all that: I wish there were more! Really, I just wish there were anything more to this game (other than new characters, since those make the game worse), but the events are definitely the most interesting - even if it's just to watch for the train wreck. Looking at the news it seems like they have more planned, and I say: go for it!

You specifically call out Gauntlet, Ultron, and Anniversary events for not being fun, whereas those are the ones most consistently appreciated. If it's that bad, there's nothing forcing you to stick around.

loroku

qkumbredood wrote:

As a 3* transitioner, I do see where you're coming from. But honestly, if you don't like it, then don't play.
...
You specifically call out Gauntlet, Ultron, and Anniversary events for not being fun, whereas those are the ones most consistently appreciated. If it's that bad, there's nothing forcing you to stick around.

You know, if you have nothing useful to say, you can just not post.

You have completely missed the point of my post, but thanks anyway. All I was saying is that despite how awful this game can be, I still play it every day. I don't know how you can get a better compliment than that.

brisashi

I have to strongly disagree with you regarding 4* covers being harder to get.

I used to get 1-2 of them a week if I was really lucky, and now I can get 5+ each week fairly easily.

MarvelDestiny

I don't know why it seems hard to understand but I have to agree with loroku. I am also a casual player and 4* or better are almost impossible to get. I just don't have the time to invest. In fact, I'm lucky if I have time to read anything on the forum anymore, let alone do anything in the game other than DDQ. PVE requires multiple timed daily clears at a minimum if you want good progression/ranking. PVP requires a well-timed start to climbing and strategic shield use requiring even more dedication to be logged in when hopping.

It's all just way too much and if you, as a player, don't buy into this time management scheme then you sacrifice most of the new improvements and your effective endgame is limited to maxxing out 3*'s. The only alternative is to whale it up and I definitely don't have that kind of money.

DDQ is simply geared as a time suck and as the field of 4-5*'s increases the game will (sooner rather than later) lock out casual gamers without finding a way to open the new content to them (beyond the .1% granted by tokens).

Don't get me wrong either, I enjoy my MPQ time; I just don't have a lot of free time to devote to the game anymore.

dr tinykittylove

brisashi wrote:

I have to strongly disagree with you regarding 4* covers being harder to get.

I used to get 1-2 of them a week if I was really lucky, and now I can get 5+ each week fairly easily.

Agree. Never mind the percentages, sometimes it's true that rng hates you.

But the pve token? Easy as hell to get - I've generally picked up mine before the last sub or at the start of the last sub, just making half clears when I remember to with no grinding. One of those times I kept falling asleep in the middle and only cleared 2x a day and replayed a few nodes at the end of subs. What's more, it was not even a possibility before - you could grind to 3x max progression and still not get a 4* in a bad bracket.

Pvp? They moved the 4* progression down to 1k and increase the points you could get per match. Achievable with a 3* roster, even in low-scoring slices. I've done it every time except once when I fell asleep and missed the entire pvp.

The 1.3k token is harder, I'll grant. I haven't bothered with it most of this season except for the Mystique pvp, because Mystique is an awesome featured.

Ignoring that one, that's still good for 1-2 tokens from pve and 3 4*s from pvp a week, and there's one more 4* in shield sim and season progression so you don't even need to be in a top alliance. So many channels to get them now. Sure, you won't be able to get them all *now*, but there are some achievable ones that will build your way to the rest eventually, nearly all of which did not exist just a few months ago.

Unknown

Hi,

I would just like to put in some of my views.
As mentioned, top 400 for PVE will easily net you a token with a chance for a 2* to 4*. Granted that the chance is low, at least by doing a little of PVE, top 400 is definitely manageable.
Not having essentials character will definitely hurt your ranking, but just doing a little PVE can net you a heroic token, hence why not?

For PVP, you can get a token by hitting 300 which imo is not hard to get with even a 2* roster.
The game currently is doing a case of "if you play more, you get more chance of rankings --> more covers" which can potentially lead to burnt out.
My advice is: play when you want, but probably try to play smart. If you are tired of the grinds, just try to get a heroic cover from PVE at least.

TLCstormz

lol. Why on earth do people feel the need to come into OTHER people's threads and say stuff like "if you don't like it, just leave"?

That is SO bizarre.

Der_Lex

TLCstormz wrote:

lol. Why on earth do people feel the need to come into OTHER people's threads and say stuff like "if you don't like it, just leave"?

That is SO bizarre.

Well, if you don't like it...

Nah, too easy.

OneLastGambit

Have to disagree here,

I've been playing two months so far and have a fairly solid 2* roster. I've won the legendary token from every pve event since Ultron and have even been lucky enough to get 2 legendary characters (uncanny deadpool and kingpin) from regular old standard tokens.

I currently have kingpin (2 covers) uncanny deadpool (2 covers) , star Lord (2 cover), thoress (1 cover) and in my recruitment queue hulkbuster and thing.

Either I'm insanely lucky or its not as hard as it seems.

Edit: I should also say that I work 10hours a day so my spare time is limited

Mawtful

loroku wrote:

Fourth: Events. Man, I've never been so excited to be disappointed in a game! I love that they keep trying, but wow they have a poor track record. Gauntlet? Nope. Anniversary last year? HAHAHA. Wow that was horrible. Ultron? Well it would have been great... except, no, sorry. Ultron 2? Wait, you didn't want a reward for playing, did you? This year's anniversary? Well considering last year (1st) they forgot it existed until the forums literally caught on fire, I am sure they will do something, but I am also sure to keep my expectations low. But even having said all that: I wish there were more! Really, I just wish there were anything more to this game (other than new characters, since those make the game worse), but the events are definitely the most interesting - even if it's just to watch for the train wreck. Looking at the news it seems like they have more planned, and I say: go for it!

loroku

qkumbredood wrote:

3 PVE clears a day (about an hour and a half total) will get you to the legendary token and usually T100 placement IF YOU ARE ME.

brisashi wrote:

I have to strongly disagree with you regarding 4* covers being harder to get IF YOU ARE ME.

dr tinykittylove wrote:

But the pve token? Easy as hell to get IF YOU ARE ME

I fixed those quotes for you. Don't forget that your experience speaks for no one but yourself.

Sorry, but it takes me at least an hour+ to clear a PvE, minimum. Three times a day is about 4 hours. (This is excluding the ~30+ minutes I already spend playing DDQ. So really, I'm talking about 4.5 to 5 hours. In one day. For one event.) And not just 4 hours, mind you - 4 hours spaced out over VERY specific times of the day. If it doesn't suit my schedule that day? Guess what, you're screwed. I almost never PvP for that exact reason: the timing required is so perfect that unless the stars align, you might as well not play: anything else is raising your MMR for nothing. It's funny: I can't tell you the number of times I pick up the game and say, I have some time, let's see: and then I can't actually play, because the timing is off for everything going on. If you can't play during the perfect windows, then you won't actually get the scores you need to rank or progress or get anything, so it's not worth it. Not to mention that 4 hours a day is INSANE based on the piddly rewards you get from PvE - I mean, it's absolutely not worth it. To me.

That's why DDQ is so awesome: it NEVER matters when I play. I can play whenever I want to play - which is such a crazy concept for this game that's why I never play anything else any more.

Two months guy: you're awesome, keep playing. But I felt exactly like you at two months, and I started playing a year ago when the game was much easier. Don't worry: you'll understand what I'm talking about one day.

cyineedsn

loroku wrote:

It's funny: I can't tell you the number of times I pick up the game and say, I have some time, let's see: and then I can't actually play, because the timing is off for everything going on.

I'm actually in the camp that is generally able to play during the "windows" and hit some of the scores/progressions/etc, but I 100% understand what you mean by this and it's awful/boring.

TxMoose

loroku wrote:

For one event.) And not just 4 hours, mind you - 4 hours spaced out over VERY specific times of the day. If it doesn't suit my schedule that day? Guess what, you're screwed.

if you're playing for t10 placement, then you're absolutely right. you are tied to a specific schedule where if you don't meet that schedule, you miss out on what you're going for. that is not the case for the pve progression. while they need to be spaced out throughout the day, you don't have to strictly adhere to the refresh schedule - you just need to get the 3 clears in. most can generally fit one clear in some time in the morning and one in at bed time. that leaves one either at lunch or in the afternoon some time. morning and bed time should not be an issue if you really want it. and you have to decide if you want to do lunch with your colleagues or do your pve clear. I've made decisions both ways on that one. if I miss a lunch clear, I can usually get the high point nodes in on a bathroom break or something. if not, it just takes some more grinding in the evening. pve progression is very obtainable for a nominal effort. if you don't want to put forth the effort, that doesn't mean its unobtainable.

Unknown

TxMoose wrote:

pve progression is very obtainable for a nominal effort.

I don't know what is your definition of nominal effort but by my estimate 4+ hours a day is far from nominal. More like a part time job

Der_Lex

shurak wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

pve progression is very obtainable for a nominal effort.

I don't know what is your definition of nominal effort but by my estimate 4+ hours a day is far from nominal. More like a part time job

To be fair, that "one hour per clear" should have the same "for you" as those examples that loroku listed. In the average PvE a clear takes me maybe 30-40 mins, tops, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

simonsez

shurak wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

pve progression is very obtainable for a nominal effort.

I don't know what is your definition of nominal effort but by my estimate 4+ hours a day is far from nominal. More like a part time job

The progression is calibrated so that you can get it by making one pass every 8 hours. If that's taking 4+ hours, there's something wrong.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

shurak wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

pve progression is very obtainable for a nominal effort.

I don't know what is your definition of nominal effort but by my estimate 4+ hours a day is far from nominal. More like a part time job

The progression is calibrated so that you can get it by making one pass every 8 hours. If that's taking 4+ hours, there's something wrong.

Oh! Thanks for reminding. Having to schedule your life around the game is even worse than the grind itself.

TxMoose

shurak wrote:

I don't know what is your definition of nominal effort but by my estimate 4+ hours a day is far from nominal. More like a part time job

welcome to pve. not for everyone. I did not say minimal, but my experience is that 2 of the 3 clears of the day should take less than an hr and the last clear, double tapping the high point nodes might be a little more (maybe 3 hrs total by my estimation). if that is too much playing time for you, then don't worry about it. do what you can playing within what is fun for you. I'm very close to giving up on the quest for 1300 on any kind of consistent basis. I hit it twice and the second one was so easy it was stupid (first was waaaay too much hp spent on hopping). I have since banged my head against the wall trying to make it and it has ceased to be fun. therefore, after Cyclops drops off the boosted list, i'll settle back into the 1K target, because that was fun and a LOT less effort and a lot less hp. do what is fun for you, but if that means you don't quite get to a progression, who cares. have fun and play the game. just don't ask the game to fit your style of playing into the progressions when huge chunks of the player base are more than willing to spend that time. game should not be rewarding minimal effort with premium prizes. that would be silly.

Unknown

TxMoose wrote:

loroku wrote:

For one event.) And not just 4 hours, mind you - 4 hours spaced out over VERY specific times of the day. If it doesn't suit my schedule that day? Guess what, you're screwed.

if you're playing for t10 placement, then you're absolutely right. you are tied to a specific schedule where if you don't meet that schedule, you miss out on what you're going for. that is not the case for the pve progression. while they need to be spaced out throughout the day, you don't have to strictly adhere to the refresh schedule - you just need to get the 3 clears in. most can generally fit one clear in some time in the morning and one in at bed time. that leaves one either at lunch or in the afternoon some time. morning and bed time should not be an issue if you really want it. and you have to decide if you want to do lunch with your colleagues or do your pve clear. I've made decisions both ways on that one. if I miss a lunch clear, I can usually get the high point nodes in on a bathroom break or something. if not, it just takes some more grinding in the evening. pve progression is very obtainable for a nominal effort. if you don't want to put forth the effort, that doesn't mean its unobtainable.

In my experience, it's not T10, it's any hope of T150.

Being one of apparently 2-3 people on the Earth that doesn't have fully covered/leveled 3*s, or all the essentials, or some mystical "everything works out for me" charm, My experience has been that if I am to have any hope of hitting progression AND placing even modestly well (again, T150), I cannot miss any of the refreshes, and they must be as close to perfect as possible.

If I cannot beat every node every time, my odds go down, missing an essential, odds go down, lose key heroes and don't want to use health packs, odds go down, new release, odds go down, etc., etc., etc.

This is precisely why I bailed completely (? ) on PvE. PvP is tough at times, but at least I have a shot of doing well, when and how I choose.

Every time I contemplate going for PvE progression I remind myself (or my wife reminds me ) of how I feel while I'm participating... and I leave it closed, again.

Some people obviously have a higher threshold for how much they're willing to tolerate, but the back-and-forth about what is reasonable or objectively possible is, and I say this humbly and with respect, rather foolish.

We're all correct about how the game plays and is played by each of us, because the ability/roster strength, expectations, and thus experience are true for each individual playing the game.

DBC

simonsez

shurak wrote:

Oh! Thanks for reminding. Having to schedule your life around the game is even worse than the grind itself.

No one said you have to hit them on the clock. There's so much room for inefficient play if all you want is the progression, it doesn't really matter when you clear them. You should know that if you read the forum, but yeah, it's way easier to just whine about it instead.