The Real Problem With the Deadpool 4-Star
DrDoMe
Posts: 97 Match Maker
I’ve seen a lot of hate for the Deadpool 4-Star addition to the game and while I agree that it’s awful, I think it’s important to talk about why its awful so that everyone, especially the devs, understand what went wrong here and how to avoid it in the future (and ideally fix it going forward).
Disclaimer: I am a free-to-player and I always will be. This game just can’t compete for my cash with what else is out there. I buy a lot of games, but I won’t pay for content in this game. I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with that. The business model of this game does actually require free-to-payers and if all of them quit, the paid players would find the competitive landscape a lot less appealing. Free-to-players playing a free-to-play game do, in fact, add value to the experience for everyone.
So what’s the problem with the Deadpool 4-Star missions?
It’s not that they’re “too hard” or that it’s “unfair” or that I feel like the devs “owe me something”. The problem is that it’s not a game. It’s a qualifications test.
Games can have hard challenges that are still fun as long as you actually have some tools for creative problem solving. Most of the other challenges in this game, even when they’re hard, are still fun because we can choose the heroes we use, the team-ups and boosts, and we can to some degree choose how to attack the problem. For this event, you get no meaningful choices; your choice of hero is mandated, you get no team-ups, and in most cases boosts aren’t going to be the difference between winning and losing. You have one obvious optimal path and that path still only gives you a slim-to-none chance of success. So it amounts to beating your head against a wall hoping luck stacks up in such a way that the wall breaks before you do. And that’s no fun.
So what’s the problem with having an optional challenge that isn’t any fun? Why don’t you just ignore it?
One of the worst things about this event is that it pretends to be possible. Sure, the enemy is twice or three-times your level, and sure he’s got fast attacks that one-shot you (so far with Magneto and Cyclops as the enemies) and you have slow weak ones. But you have 8 covers with your 4-star and the AI doesn’t play optimally and maybe if the luck rolls your way you’ll have a chance. But that chance is really small. I tried the Cyclops one something like 20 times. I lost that fight every way possible. Not only was it a huge waste of my time and resources, but that was also 20 games of frustration and anger and helpless punishment.
So why not just ignore it? Well for starters because I want to play a fun game and get good rewards. This is a good reward dangled out in front of horrible painful experience that I have, in fact, given up on, but the compulsion to try one more time is pretty high. After all, it’s a reward that you know some people are getting that you’re not.
What this event does is punish players for caring about this game. You can care about doing well and making progress and you can beat your head against a wall and slowly hate the game and the devs more and more with every attempt, or you can choose not to care about missing out on good stuff because the journey isn’t any fun, and hey isn’t that true to one degree or another about this whole game? Neither of these thought processes are good for this game’s long-term health. Neither are outcomes the developers should want.
Part of a Pattern
The bigger problem with this feature, the one that actually makes me want to write about it in the hopes that the devs listen, is that it appears to be part of a pattern.
I don’t know if anyone had my experience in the last Gauntlet, but I worked very hard to get that Thor cover. I even had fun with it. It was a fun challenge to try to get there. But then the very last mission required a 4-star I didn’t have and every minute I spent working to that point felt like a painful waste of my time. Again I was faced with the choice of getting mad about the betrayal or giving up on caring about this game and its rewards.
Remember the Ultron events? Those were pretty cool. I had a lot of fun trying to do well and trying to help my teammates do well. Until a day remaining when it was clear that, even if we had done everything perfectly, all the good rewards were completely out-of-reach. Some were even mathematically impossible. That event, which was solid fun for a few days and a great model for events, nearly made me give up on this game just because of how little it ultimately mattered.
A lot of people refer to rage-quits, but this game is at dire risk of hopelessness-quit. I see the bar for good rewards constantly rising, I see a lot of new features coming out that make the game less fun and less rewarding, and I see the development team occasionally releasing challenges that fundamentally betray the trust players have in a game (that the challenges it presents will be possible and fun even if they are hard), and I just care less and less about bothering to play.
Maybe the devs are doing this on purpose. Maybe they want to weed out people like me who aren’t willing to throw money at a game to make the challenges possible. Maybe they just want to hunt whales and prey on compulsive gambling personalities. But I’ve always tried to see negative outcomes as mistakes rather than deliberately evil acts, so I’m writing this in the hopes that the devs actually want to make this game fun for everyone who wants to play. This is my attempt at providing constructive advice.
A game is series of interesting choices. A puzzle is a challenge that can be solved with creativity and skill. Rewards are not, in themselves, a source of fun; they’re just a compelling incentive. When building features for this game, please ask yourself the following questions.
Is this giving the player interesting choices to make?
Is this something that can be solved with creativity and skill?
If not, you’re probably not making a game. You’re making an increasingly complicated slot machine.
Disclaimer: I am a free-to-player and I always will be. This game just can’t compete for my cash with what else is out there. I buy a lot of games, but I won’t pay for content in this game. I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with that. The business model of this game does actually require free-to-payers and if all of them quit, the paid players would find the competitive landscape a lot less appealing. Free-to-players playing a free-to-play game do, in fact, add value to the experience for everyone.
So what’s the problem with the Deadpool 4-Star missions?
It’s not that they’re “too hard” or that it’s “unfair” or that I feel like the devs “owe me something”. The problem is that it’s not a game. It’s a qualifications test.
Games can have hard challenges that are still fun as long as you actually have some tools for creative problem solving. Most of the other challenges in this game, even when they’re hard, are still fun because we can choose the heroes we use, the team-ups and boosts, and we can to some degree choose how to attack the problem. For this event, you get no meaningful choices; your choice of hero is mandated, you get no team-ups, and in most cases boosts aren’t going to be the difference between winning and losing. You have one obvious optimal path and that path still only gives you a slim-to-none chance of success. So it amounts to beating your head against a wall hoping luck stacks up in such a way that the wall breaks before you do. And that’s no fun.
So what’s the problem with having an optional challenge that isn’t any fun? Why don’t you just ignore it?
One of the worst things about this event is that it pretends to be possible. Sure, the enemy is twice or three-times your level, and sure he’s got fast attacks that one-shot you (so far with Magneto and Cyclops as the enemies) and you have slow weak ones. But you have 8 covers with your 4-star and the AI doesn’t play optimally and maybe if the luck rolls your way you’ll have a chance. But that chance is really small. I tried the Cyclops one something like 20 times. I lost that fight every way possible. Not only was it a huge waste of my time and resources, but that was also 20 games of frustration and anger and helpless punishment.
So why not just ignore it? Well for starters because I want to play a fun game and get good rewards. This is a good reward dangled out in front of horrible painful experience that I have, in fact, given up on, but the compulsion to try one more time is pretty high. After all, it’s a reward that you know some people are getting that you’re not.
What this event does is punish players for caring about this game. You can care about doing well and making progress and you can beat your head against a wall and slowly hate the game and the devs more and more with every attempt, or you can choose not to care about missing out on good stuff because the journey isn’t any fun, and hey isn’t that true to one degree or another about this whole game? Neither of these thought processes are good for this game’s long-term health. Neither are outcomes the developers should want.
Part of a Pattern
The bigger problem with this feature, the one that actually makes me want to write about it in the hopes that the devs listen, is that it appears to be part of a pattern.
I don’t know if anyone had my experience in the last Gauntlet, but I worked very hard to get that Thor cover. I even had fun with it. It was a fun challenge to try to get there. But then the very last mission required a 4-star I didn’t have and every minute I spent working to that point felt like a painful waste of my time. Again I was faced with the choice of getting mad about the betrayal or giving up on caring about this game and its rewards.
Remember the Ultron events? Those were pretty cool. I had a lot of fun trying to do well and trying to help my teammates do well. Until a day remaining when it was clear that, even if we had done everything perfectly, all the good rewards were completely out-of-reach. Some were even mathematically impossible. That event, which was solid fun for a few days and a great model for events, nearly made me give up on this game just because of how little it ultimately mattered.
A lot of people refer to rage-quits, but this game is at dire risk of hopelessness-quit. I see the bar for good rewards constantly rising, I see a lot of new features coming out that make the game less fun and less rewarding, and I see the development team occasionally releasing challenges that fundamentally betray the trust players have in a game (that the challenges it presents will be possible and fun even if they are hard), and I just care less and less about bothering to play.
Maybe the devs are doing this on purpose. Maybe they want to weed out people like me who aren’t willing to throw money at a game to make the challenges possible. Maybe they just want to hunt whales and prey on compulsive gambling personalities. But I’ve always tried to see negative outcomes as mistakes rather than deliberately evil acts, so I’m writing this in the hopes that the devs actually want to make this game fun for everyone who wants to play. This is my attempt at providing constructive advice.
A game is series of interesting choices. A puzzle is a challenge that can be solved with creativity and skill. Rewards are not, in themselves, a source of fun; they’re just a compelling incentive. When building features for this game, please ask yourself the following questions.
Is this giving the player interesting choices to make?
Is this something that can be solved with creativity and skill?
If not, you’re probably not making a game. You’re making an increasingly complicated slot machine.
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Comments
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Dunno, I think it's fun to get a legendary token for free every week. Sure, when I've gotta use my 2 cover Ant Man to beat a 270 it will be a pain, but, I guess my point is, you're not at 4 star tier yet if you can't beat the mission.
If you don't have enough covers to beat a single tough opponent, you don't need the legendary that week. Sometimes you just can't win. Oh well. The whales will be able to do it, and they need to to have any progression. Legendaries aren't about fleshing out your roster they're about possibly dropping a 5 star for super veteran players. Sorry you hate hitting your head against the wall. I've got 200 Fury and 180 Xforce and beat both challenges on my first try.
I guess this corroborates your point that the legendary token system isn't going to help people advance to the 4 star tier. And I agree with that (see above, 5 star gambling) . And not advancing is frustrating. The best way to do that is consistently get to 1000 points in PvP. Which is also hard. Peace.
P.S. that gauntlet shenanigans was ultra lame. I don't have Mr Fantastic so I am very glad I didn't even bother with that tiresome event.0 -
He isn't in 4* tier yet? With 8 covers? I guess you only "deserve" to win a 4* cover if you don't actually need them, because your team is already fully covered.0
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You know. Players have been saying this forever. They've had mass exodi (plural) on account of them pulling these shenanigans and they haven't changed anything.
I started playing this game early on. It was never enough.
I ground REALLY hard to break the 2* wall and get into 3* land (in addition to shield hopping like mad and buying a bunch of covers to speed the transition). I finally got there and they implemented death brackets and nerfed OBW. In combination with some other changes, many players (including myself) quit at that time. My alliance mates back then didn't understand why I was getting such hard brackets since they'd all been playing longer and didn't have to massively over grind or make up ground to place well.
The result is that people at the top, who've been playing longer have a much, much easier time continuing to place well and progress, while anyone even slightly below them have nearly an insurmountable challenge. The same thing happened when I came back. DPD drew me back, but I'd missed the start of the 4* band-wagon (only had undercover XF, IW, and a 2 cover NF from the start of the game before more 4*'s started getting released), and as a result PvP placement was near impossible after the "welcome-back" honeymoon period, and missing some of the featured characters meant placement in PvE wasn't possible. I slowly filled out my 3* roster and picked up single covers of 4*s here and there. Started playing PvE again in earnest for Ultron. Did well picked up some covers I needed, but the more events I played, it became almost impossible to keep placing in PvE. PvP was still not happening (and falling even further behind by not having 4*'s).
So then they implement the 4* DPD, which was supposed to provide an entry point and way to transition, but then they decided it was too easy so they shifted the yard-stick again so it only applies to 4-5* transitioners.
Every player is at a slightly different place, but it's incredibly frustrating when there's no pathway to progression. People who have the roster to be able to run fast clears come on the forums and brag about how quickly they can do PvE and PvP, and belittle anyone who questions the design philosophy since it directly benefits them at the expense of everyone else.
Sorry I'm not happy and bubbly about this, but frankly I'm fed up. The only good faith effort the devs ever made to make progression more obtainable was DPD (and maybe adding 2*'s to PvP rewards). Pretty much everything else has just been a constant shuffle of pretending to be responsive to players and just maintaining the status quo. No matter how much you grind, you'll never become competitive or catch up. You're always losing ground. And now they implemented the same mechanic to DPD, which was supposed to be the bone for everyone who pretty much gets or have gotten consistently **** by all their changes.
I know the fortunate players who're well off in this game, and have the rosters to compete see no problems with how this game is run, but for the rest of us it's pretty much a constant insult (why else the frequent mass exudi from the game). Well screw Demiurge. They're jerks.0 -
I do think that, in determining why this is awful, you need to do something to help specify why it's more awful then stuff that's been in the game for a while.
Mainly, any and all required nodes, punishing players for not having enough roster space or not having good token luck by making your slow growth a requirement to place well.
Oooooooor.
About how that, and this DDQ node, might be a good thing.
Dealing with the small rosters and locked nodes and tough impossible-for-now battles sucks... but once you get good enough/get the resources for those nodes, and are able to rack up a higher PVE score and get higher on the progressions chart and are able to beat The Big Enchilada and get past 600 regularly on PVP and you start getting covers faster and faster as you make more and more progress...
...and now, there's just another step to reach. More 4*s and Legendarys once you can get to higher levels in PVP and PVE, and yes, eventually in this node too.
I won't be able to beat it for a while, myself, unless I get super lucky with Invisibility.
But man, I am going to be stoked when I do.
...eventually.
Progress gets faster and faster as your roster and team grows. That's the way it's always been.0 -
I think the problem is all in the expectation.0
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ErikPeter wrote:Dunno, I think it's fun to get a legendary token for free every week. Sure, when I've gotta use my 2 cover Ant Man to beat a 270 it will be a pain, but, I guess my point is, you're not at 4 star tier yet if you can't beat the mission.
If you don't have enough covers to beat a single tough opponent, you don't need the legendary that week. Sometimes you just can't win. Oh well. The whales will be able to do it, and they need to to have any progression. Legendaries aren't about fleshing out your roster they're about possibly dropping a 5 star for super veteran players. Sorry you hate hitting your head against the wall. I've got 200 Fury and 180 Xforce and beat both challenges on my first try.
I guess this corroborates your point that the legendary token system isn't going to help people advance to the 4 star tier. And I agree with that (see above, 5 star gambling) . And not advancing is frustrating. The best way to do that is consistently get to 1000 points in PvP. Which is also hard. Peace.
P.S. that gauntlet shenanigans was ultra lame. I don't have Mr Fantastic so I am very glad I didn't even bother with that tiresome event.
I have a 7 cover X-Force Wolverine and a 6 cover Nick Fury, is that not transitionary enough? Does that mean I don't need a slot machine gamble and actually trying to improve my 4* roster? This single node has obviously been designed not for those who are just starting their 3*-4* transition but for those who are well one the way and have 9-10 covers on their 4*'s already.
Not advancing is more than frustrating it is downright infuriating and enough to make some rage quit.0 -
Linkster79 wrote:I have a 7 cover X-Force Wolverine and a 6 cover Nick Fury, is that not transitionary enough? Does that mean I don't need a slot machine gamble and actually trying to improve my 4* roster? This single node has obviously been designed not for those who are just starting their 3*-4* transition but for those who are well one the way and have 9-10 covers on their 4*'s already.
Not advancing is more than frustrating it is downright infuriating and enough to make some rage quit.
Well....
Those are enough covers that the node IS winnable at.
It is just, as mentioned.
Very, very, "Ouch" hard.
But I've seen plenty of 6-7 cover set ups win that match.
I want to see a youtube of it because that seems like it requires a ton of things to go right.
But it's certainly possible to win. Just far from guaranteed.
(And, it's not the only avenue of advancement anyways)0 -
colwag wrote:I do think that, in determining why this is awful, you need to do something to help specify why it's more awful then stuff that's been in the game for a while.
Mainly, any and all required nodes, punishing players for not having enough roster space or not having good token luck by making your slow growth a requirement to place well.
Oooooooor.
About how that, and this DDQ node, might be a good thing.
Dealing with the small rosters and locked nodes and tough impossible-for-now battles sucks... but once you get good enough/get the resources for those nodes, and are able to rack up a higher PVE score and get higher on the progressions chart and are able to beat The Big Enchilada and get past 600 regularly on PVP and you start getting covers faster and faster as you make more and more progress...
...and now, there's just another step to reach. More 4*s and Legendarys once you can get to higher levels in PVP and PVE, and yes, eventually in this node too.
I won't be able to beat it for a while, myself, unless I get super lucky with Invisibility.
But man, I am going to be stoked when I do.
...eventually.
Progress gets faster and faster as your roster and team grows. That's the way it's always been.
Progress has always been slow. It was slow to transition from 2 to 3, until they started DDQ, then it suddenly started happening after, what at the time, seemed like an onslaught of new 3* characters that most could not begin to keep up with. Now, the same situation is occurring with the 4*s, where the progress is negligible, and the number of 4* characters is going to increase and we'll have the same situation again.
Where DDQ3 was a catalyst to get more 3* covers, as well as ISO and a new token, the new DDQ4, is certainly not.0 -
This is a really interesting conversation, even more interesting is to see peoples opinions in line with their rosters.
People who tend to be on the top of the mountain in this situation will often blame other players as they don't want the system that coddles them to disappear, and clearly don't have a problem because they are in the circle being rewarded, which is the goal of every action in this game. Reward, namely character covers.Splarne wrote:I think the problem is all in the expectation.
While I'd agree, expectation comes from communication.
Everything communicated about this, even down to the games UI suggests its for 3 star to 4 star transition, outside of difficulty.
The announcement thread was a huge wall of thank yous, some more cautious, about how this was aimed at finally helping out the 4 star transition, IIRC no one corrected them.
If you don't understand the UI commentary, look at ddq map and look at the stars around the icons. 3 stars around the enchilada because you use it to get 3 stars.
4 stars around the newest challenge that you use for 5 stars.
It's true that it's all expectation, I'd also argue this was just extremely poorly timed.
Why release a node for 5 star transitioners before the update that will ease transitioning in lower tiers.
A lot of it would have been solved in a lot of ways, but you have to admit, the biggest consistent complaints are 4 star transition and the iso to level them.
You could see why mentioning a 4 star DDQ might have been a bit misleading as opposed to saying, we're adding a new node to DDQ.0 -
DrDoMe wrote:I’ve seen a lot of hate for the Deadpool 4-Star ...(small world views removed)l.
I've seen alot of players enjoy the deadpool 4-Star. There are tons of players completing it and enjoying the rewards and there are players not completing it also.
However, your long winded manifesto is biased and one sided. There are really a lot of non-whales finishing that node. Take a browse through this thread for a tiny subset of success stories -
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=329900 -
To be fair, while that's true, it's still his opinion,disregarding hyperbole doesn't become invalidated by people completing the node.acescracked wrote:DrDoMe wrote:I’ve seen a lot of hate for the Deadpool 4-Star ...(small world views removed)l.
I've seen alot of players enjoy the deadpool 4-Star. There are tons of players completing it and enjoying the rewards and there are players not completing it also.
However, your long winded manifesto is biased and one sided. There are really a lot of non-whales finishing that node. Take a browse through this thread for a tiny subset of success stories -
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32990
It'd be like saying heroics weren't needed because I've friends who regularly get 3 stars with standards.
There are tons of players not enjoying it as well and we have to face the fact that on average the forums have players with more developed rosters and on top of it, theres report bias when using that as a source. It won't give us a tally of everyone who has tried, or those who tried the last and were so put off didn't try this one.0 -
GurlBYE wrote:This is a really interesting conversation, even more interesting is to see peoples opinions in line with their rosters.
People who tend to be on the top of the mountain in this situation will often blame other players as they don't want the system that coddles them to disappear
Top of the mountain players...
Won it with my first try.
Level 168 1/4/3 NF
I actually managed to get this on my first try with a L150 535 Fury.
This time, managed it on the first go with my 5/2/1 Fury.
Made it at my second attempt with level 120 Fury (335)
One of the people who completed it just before I did (on the leaderboard) had a 2/2/3 fury
My 145 max covered fury bested cmag on second try
Source -https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32990
There are more examples in the thread.0 -
GurlBYE wrote:
To be fair, while that's true, it's still his opinion,disregarding hyperbole doesn't become invalidated by people completing the node.acescracked wrote:DrDoMe wrote:I’ve seen a lot of hate for the Deadpool 4-Star ...(small world views removed)l.
I've seen alot of players enjoy the deadpool 4-Star. There are tons of players completing it and enjoying the rewards and there are players not completing it also.
However, your long winded manifesto is biased and one sided. There are really a lot of non-whales finishing that node. Take a browse through this thread for a tiny subset of success stories -
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32990
It'd be like saying heroics weren't needed because I've friends who regularly get 3 stars with standards.
There are tons of players not enjoying it as well and we have to face the fact that on average the forums have players with more developed rosters and on top of it, theres report bias when using that as a source. It won't give us a tally of everyone who has tried, or those who tried the last and were so put off didn't try this one.
Yep, alot fail but its for the highest and shinest covers. I would think there should be a high fallure rate for rewards such as that.0 -
acescracked wrote:GurlBYE wrote:This is a really interesting conversation, even more interesting is to see peoples opinions in line with their rosters.
People who tend to be on the top of the mountain in this situation will often blame other players as they don't want the system that coddles them to disappear
Top of the mountain players...
Won it with my first try.
Level 168 1/4/3 NF
I actually managed to get this on my first try with a L150 535 Fury.
This time, managed it on the first go with my 5/2/1 Fury.
Made it at my second attempt with level 120 Fury (335)
One of the people who completed it just before I did (on the leaderboard) had a 2/2/3 fury
My 145 max covered fury bested cmag on second try
Source -https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32990
There are more examples in the thread.
8/13
fully covered but unleveled
8/13
fully covered
7/13
max covered
See the issue with those examples?
Half are fully covered, half are half covered, but all have more then half the covered of the highest level of character in the game. (silver surfer is on a tier of his own at the moment) Hence, top of the mountain.
We both know the semantics of the situation, but it still doesn't devalue ops points.0 -
I definitely feel the hopelessness, but it's not because of the 4* DDQ. I've accepted that for what it is, I just think the devs did a poor job communicating what it was actually going to be. It's not for transitioning to 4*, it's to supplement an existing 4* roster and possibly begin to transition to 5*. Had they simply told us that's what they were going for from the get go, I think all this hate and negativity would have been avoided. No, my hopelessness stems from something else. Something shiny, silver, and invincible.
That Surfer test node man, I just can't get it out of my mind. I just really don't see the point in going on. Why bother building any of these fancy 4* characters? Why bother discovering new and exciting synergies between them and other existing 3* characters? What's the point when a single character from this new tier can take a whole team of them apart all by himself? I just don't see the point. I think D3 created this node to create excitement for the mighty Surfer, to make players want to have this new powerhouse for their very own. But for me, it had the opposite effect. I played it and I got depressed. Everything I've built in this game over the last two years is worthless. I have all the 2*s, all the 3*s, 5 maxed 4*s, several fully covered lvl 200 4*s and a few with 7-10 covers, and it now means absolutely tinykitty.
Here's where we can go ahead and insert the "but Tanis, there won't be maxed Surfers for X months, your doom and gloom is invalid!" A: not true, and 2:) that's not even the point. There will be surfers, and they will be maxed, and it's going to be soon. Yes, the skip button exists, I get that. But anyone in their way is nothing but a speed bump to the players that do have them. But the real problem is that the power level is so high above the curve that it just doesn't even really seem like fun anymore. Take any 4* at max level, put him or her up against 3 maxed 3*s in a 1 vs 3 and the 4* can win, but it's not likely, and certainly not a guarantee. But put this new shiny up against what are widely considered 2 of the most powerful 4*s in the game and add a 3rd 4* with a really high damage output, and it's not even a challenge for him to take them all down. I think we've missed a step or two here, don't you?
Surfer's absurd power level makes me want to quit. Time will tell just how many of them are going to sprout up and crush everything in their path, but the first time I'm stomped down by one while shield hopping, trying for my scraps of rewards at 1k - 1.3k, is going to be the first in what I fear will be a long line of demoralizing, depressing and hopelessness inducing losses that will quickly add up and finally end my desire to play at all.0 -
I personally think it would have been a lot more fun to use our 3stars against a powered up 4star instead of the other way around (They could even pick what 3star we use in the node). The qualifier to get to do this battle could be the same as its 3star node; to have to have at least one cover of that 4star.
Most people have 3stars covered, it would be very helpful to those stuck in the 3star to 4star progession.0 -
Yeah, I personally think it would've been better to make us fight like the maxed version of what we are trying to win, using a team that was featured that week.
So like this upcoming week, we could use a team consisting only of like Colossus, Doc Oct, and whoever else. It would be interesting.
At the same time, I'm in favor of slow progression. I don't think the last node of the week should just be winnable by anyone. Level 200-ish should get you through on at LEAST your first 3 tries, and if you aren't to that point or close to it (9-10 covers) then you don't REALLY need that 4* at this very moment. Keep working and come back to it.0 -
Esheris wrote:I personally think it would have been a lot more fun to use our 3stars against a powered up 4star instead of the other way around (They could even pick what 3star we use in the node). The qualifier to get to do this battle could be the same as its 3star node; to have to have at least one cover of that 4star.
Most people have 3stars covered, it would be very helpful to those stuck in the 3star to 4star progession.
It's worth pointing out though that the original ddq wasn't really a 2->3* transition either. My alliance is full of newer players at that point now, and they can't touch the 3* prize node. Standard ddq is about filling out a 3* roster, once you've *already* got strong 3*s. Now 4* ddq is about filling out 4* rosters for the people who've already made headway.
That said, I won the past two with my 5-cover xf and 4-cover Fury. About ten tries each till I hit the lucky board, but I guess anything's possible.0 -
Magisse wrote:It's worth pointing out though that the original ddq wasn't really a 2->3* transition either. My alliance is full of newer players at that point now, and they can't touch the 3* prize node. Standard ddq is about filling out a 3* roster, once you've *already* got strong 3*s. Now 4* ddq is about filling out 4* rosters for the people who've already made headway.
That said, I won the past two with my 5-cover xf and 4-cover Fury. About ten tries each till I hit the lucky board, but I guess anything's possible.
Why do people keep repeating this when it's blatantly false. Standard DPD requires a single cover of the daily featured 3*, and that's it. You can (and many do) use 2* teams to clear the final node.
The 4* DPD requires max covers for a reasonable chance and 7+ covers for even a sliver of a chance, and you're not allowed to bring allies to make it easier. It's the absolute polar opposite.
The people who keep repeating this are mostly people with strong 4* rosters who'd like to keep everyone below them stunted so they can get 5*'s more easily and troll the daylights out of people in PvP. They should rename the game Marvel Golden Shower, since that's more accurate. Basically just an economic inequality simulator with minor puzzle matching elements built in. Not really a true RPG in any sense of the word.0 -
Magisse wrote:Esheris wrote:I personally think it would have been a lot more fun to use our 3stars against a powered up 4star instead of the other way around (They could even pick what 3star we use in the node). The qualifier to get to do this battle could be the same as its 3star node; to have to have at least one cover of that 4star.
Most people have 3stars covered, it would be very helpful to those stuck in the 3star to 4star progession.
It's worth pointing out though that the original ddq wasn't really a 2->3* transition either. My alliance is full of newer players at that point now, and they can't touch the 3* prize node. Standard ddq is about filling out a 3* roster, once you've *already* got strong 3*s. Now 4* ddq is about filling out 4* rosters for the people who've already made headway.
That said, I won the past two with my 5-cover xf and 4-cover Fury. About ten tries each till I hit the lucky board, but I guess anything's possible.
Ah it was for me, but I can only speak for myself. I started in February and DDQ helped get me almost every 3star completely covered. When DDQ started I was a 2star player, so I assumed it helped many others transition into 3star-land like it did for me.0
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