More value for your money

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I don't know if they can reduce the prices in fear of the whales complaining that they spent infinite $ on iso. What they can do is introduce an iso booster than gave 50% more iso for an hour or something and offer that at low prices. I would definitely consider getting one of those.

I wonder if there's some technical limitation that's preventing them from doing this.

I don't see why there would be, although there might be some technical issues due to how iso is given out in neat quantities of 70/140/250/500. In some other game it might be easier to implement due to how the rewards aren't in exact quantities like MPQ, so it's possible that the codebase is designed to give out a small set of exact iso quantities, meaning that adding a 50% buff or something would involve manually accounting for each of these quantities (although I hope that isn't the case since that would be some pretty loose programming). They would also have to modify the store UI and general UI to show the player that they're getting the buffed amount, which makes the feature somewhat non-trivial.

Unknown

abuelo wrote:

saints2death wrote:

How much Iso would it cost to level a 3* to max? I bet you it's north of 52,000 Iso. Are you telling me a maxed 3* is worth over $100?

172,764

No worries though, it's all well in line with other games apparantly.

The only real way to make a comparison is by pretty much accepting people, illegally, will buy cards/accounts/etc off you in other games. Again, the easiest game I can think of comparatively was Marvel: War of Heroes... In which case yeah - even though a full deck was 5 cards, not 3, paying $100+ for a single maxed out card wasn't unheard of.

I'm curious what games they ARE using for comparison though - I would think there aren't many that apply (because MPQ has a much more unique system than most).

NorthernPolarity

Telicis wrote:

RockMonster wrote:

bonerang wrote:

The HP prices are pretty in line with what I would expect them to look like. The ISO prices, however, are almost hilarious. I do not know the price point at which I would be willing to purchase ISO but it is certainly nowhere near the current levels.

How are the HP prices in line? 1250 points for a skill level, when another game with the same licence sells the same characters with higher production value requirements for $9.50.

Pretty sure they're referring to the cash->HP ratio, not the HP->cards/etc ratio. Out of curiosity, what game are you referring to? (Only game I can think of might be MarveL: WoH, but unless something's changed I don't think you can ever directly buy the card you need).

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I don't know if they can reduce the prices in fear of the whales complaining that they spent infinite $ on iso. What they can do is introduce an iso booster than gave 50% more iso for an hour or something and offer that at low prices. I would definitely consider getting one of those.

I wonder if there's some technical limitation that's preventing them from doing this.

My instincts on how coding and programming works says it's unlikely, but I would be FAR more concerned about balance: An ISO Booster seems counter intuitive, as the amount of ISO a player can gain in an hour/two hours/however long is drastically different based on too many factors. Have you finished the Prologue completely? Is it PvP or PvE? Which do you perform better in? Etc.

It's not a bad idea, but I think it would be far far too useless to a considerable majority (who aren't getting an ISO intake besides Tournament rewards, grinding 20/mission, and PvP wins).

I think the idea would be that the people who play tournaments would activate a boost and then grind the tournament for an hour or two. I do see your point though, since the boosts wouldn't make as much sense here as it would in some other game.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I don't know if they can reduce the prices in fear of the whales complaining that they spent infinite $ on iso. What they can do is introduce an iso booster than gave 50% more iso for an hour or something and offer that at low prices. I would definitely consider getting one of those.

I wonder if there's some technical limitation that's preventing them from doing this.

I would love to have an ISO booster option, an hour or so window would be great for those days where playing time is constrained, or one can only play a small handful of lightning rounds and want to get that extra oomph. I'd also like to have some cosmetic/customization options as a way to support the devs - MOBAs seem to do well with them as monetization options.

Edit: A limit on purchasing the ISO booster (1-3 per week?) could inject a slightly larger amount of ISO into the game without totally wrecking the balance or making progression a trivial affair. Would also allow more infrequent players to keep closer pace with heavy grinders.

A customization idea:

Let me write my own one-liners for my heroes that show up for my opponents on defense. Maybe one phrase per power when it gets activated (could be part of the banner that already appears on ability activation so there's no additional time added to matches). Maybe one other phrase upon being defeated on defense and one for when your defensive team wins, ala Street Fighter 2.

Ex.:
Spider Man - Defeat
"Peter Parker picked a peck of pickled PvP!"

Unknown

The main point of spending money to buy ISO or HP is to get NOW what you could normally obtain over time. That's the crux of most in-app purchases in FTP games. So look at how much time you save by buying HP or ISO with real money instead of earning it the slow way. In an average week, playing just an hour or two a day at a reasonable skill level, I can expect to earn 100-300 HP in an average week. In the same amount of time I can earn about 8000-12000 ISO.
So spending $5 on HP accelerates me by about 3 weeks of earning it the normal way. Buying $5 worth of ISO is the equivalent of what playing for a few hours will get you.
That's why no one buys ISO. If I can earn that amount in a few hours, I'm not paying $5 for it. If I even thought about buying $5 of ISO on a whim, I'd quickly decide, nah I'll just play a few hours and get it that way. Now, offer me a week or two's worth of ISO for $5 and I'll consider it.

Kelbris

saints2death wrote:

abuelo wrote:

saints2death wrote:

How much Iso would it cost to level a 3* to max? I bet you it's north of 52,000 Iso. Are you telling me a maxed 3* is worth over $100?

172,764

No worries though, it's all well in line with other games apparantly.

So a 3* maxed card is worth over $300? ****, yeah those prices are good.

Or you could just play the **** game instead of buying a maxed character

Unknown

I think people greatly overestimate the effects of being able to purchase ISO in respectable quantities (although my preference is still to have better ways to earn in game).

Covers are always you're limiting factor and should always be the primary limiting factor because these are the rewards for tournament placement. If I could buy 500,000 ISO for a dollar tomorrow, it doesn't change the fact that my Ragnorak only has one cover. You could argue that people would then just go and buy loads of HP and manually level the cards...cool, so Demiurge makes a boat load more money. given the prices of such an act I would also sincerely doubt that people would fork out for both the ISO and the HP required to do so.

I said it in another thread but ISO is padder. It's there to try and squeeze out your game. I only ever face max level characters (either 85 or 100+) characters in tournaments but because people don't have any ISO, it's the same characters. I have a roster full of useless, useless cards because I will never have the ISO to level them while I'm trying to get my 3* into a useful position.

Couple it with a steady drip of new characters and the P2W implications of a flat out ISO purchase are very very minimal unless done in extremes. Things like spending HP on boosts and shields are far more P2W-y than having characters at the minimum level required to compete.

Unknown

Kelbris wrote:

saints2death wrote:

abuelo wrote:

saints2death wrote:

How much Iso would it cost to level a 3* to max? I bet you it's north of 52,000 Iso. Are you telling me a maxed 3* is worth over $100?

172,764

No worries though, it's all well in line with other games apparantly.

So a 3* maxed card is worth over $300? ****, yeah those prices are good.

Or you could just play the tinykitty game instead of buying a maxed character

No clue what you're talking about.

Unknown

Telicis wrote:

RockMonster wrote:

bonerang wrote:

The HP prices are pretty in line with what I would expect them to look like. The ISO prices, however, are almost hilarious. I do not know the price point at which I would be willing to purchase ISO but it is certainly nowhere near the current levels.

How are the HP prices in line? 1250 points for a skill level, when another game with the same licence sells the same characters with higher production value requirements for $9.50.

Pretty sure they're referring to the cash->HP ratio, not the HP->cards/etc ratio. Out of curiosity, what game are you referring to? (Only game I can think of might be MarveL: WoH, but unless something's changed I don't think you can ever directly buy the card you need).

Marvel Heroes. F2P action RPG. All the characters can be earned in game, or bought for between $4.50 to...I wanna say $15. Most are at $9.50. They come in their most recognizable costume usually, and you can buy additional ones for anywhere from $5-$20.

But yes, the cash->HP conversion is right where you'd want it, but the HP->stuff price is pretty nuts. Roster space aside, because I do feel that is priced fairly, and the escalating cost is sneaky in a way that works out well for both players and developers.

Maybe take a cue from the roster costs, and escalate cover pricing. Price rank 2 of a power at around $3 giving just about everyone a fair shot at the first few ranks, then move the price up to like, I dunno, $6, $9, $12 for the next ranks for the real money players.

TheVulture

IceIX wrote:

Our previous pricing was well in line with what soft currency (relatively easily earned in-game) goes for and purchases in other similar games. Most games intend the soft currency purchases to be somewhat expensive quick boosts as opposed to being a way to simply pay to not play.

Thanks - that's the most illuminating insight into ISO pricing that I've seen on the forums.

Unknown

RockMonster wrote:

Telicis wrote:

RockMonster wrote:

bonerang wrote:

The HP prices are pretty in line with what I would expect them to look like. The ISO prices, however, are almost hilarious. I do not know the price point at which I would be willing to purchase ISO but it is certainly nowhere near the current levels.

How are the HP prices in line? 1250 points for a skill level, when another game with the same licence sells the same characters with higher production value requirements for $9.50.

Pretty sure they're referring to the cash->HP ratio, not the HP->cards/etc ratio. Out of curiosity, what game are you referring to? (Only game I can think of might be MarveL: WoH, but unless something's changed I don't think you can ever directly buy the card you need).

Marvel Heroes. F2P action RPG. All the characters can be earned in game, or bought for between $4.50 to...I wanna say $15. Most are at $9.50. They come in their most recognizable costume usually, and you can buy additional ones for anywhere from $5-$20.

But yes, the cash->HP conversion is right where you'd want it, but the HP->stuff price is pretty nuts. Roster space aside, because I do feel that is priced fairly, and the escalating cost is sneaky in a way that works out well for both players and developers.

Maybe take a cue from the roster costs, and escalate cover pricing. Price rank 2 of a power at around $3 giving just about everyone a fair shot at the first few ranks, then move the price up to like, I dunno, $6, $9, $12 for the next ranks for the real money players.

Ah... That's awesome!

But comparing any mobile game, much less one in its infancy, to a fully realized 3d PC game like Marvel Heroes seems unfair.

If ANYTHING in MPQ was as good as Marvel Heroes, my immediate question is what is Marvel Heroes doing so wrong - the latter has a higher production value, capabiility, better technology, and probably just all-around better design. It has to: What it takes to make a good mobile game vs a good console/PC game are leagues apart.

Prices in mobile games with IAPs will always be higher - especially since it has to outweigh much higher costs in the short term. The HP->stuff price isn't as good, like you said... But if someone expects it to be, I'd wonder why. A lower quality game is a lower quality came - overpriced stuff included.

Polares

HP price is more or less ok, but iso is so damn expensive. 300$ to max a 3* character it's a crime!!!

NighteyesGrisu

Kelbris wrote:

saints2death wrote:

abuelo wrote:

saints2death wrote:

How much Iso would it cost to level a 3* to max? I bet you it's north of 52,000 Iso. Are you telling me a maxed 3* is worth over $100?

172,764

No worries though, it's all well in line with other games apparantly.

So a 3* maxed card is worth over $300? ****, yeah those prices are good.

Or you could just play the tinykitty game instead of buying a maxed character

but that would be like, you know, effort

Personally, I never understood why you'd buy iso to begin with (even at lower rates). Play the game and it'll come to you eventually. I understand buying hp for covers that just don't happen to come your way, but iso? Even the lowliest low level player can get iso.

bahamut685

saints2death wrote:

abuelo wrote:

saints2death wrote:

How much Iso would it cost to level a 3* to max? I bet you it's north of 52,000 Iso. Are you telling me a maxed 3* is worth over $100?

172,764

No worries though, it's all well in line with other games apparantly.

So a 3* maxed card is worth over $300? ****, yeah those prices are good.

I think the point is to play the game... If it were cheap to max your characters with real money, everyone would be calling it pay2win, instead of just 50% of people saying it.
[In reality it's only slightly pay to win... It's much more a case of the rich get richer / seniority being worth far more than time played.]

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

How much extra stuff can you make via facebook social?

Nowadays not much maybe 250 avg per day if you get lucky. It used to be a lot, but now I'd guess it's just 10% of what it was.They nerfed it harder than Bagnarok and Loki combined. Or maybe my whole friendlist already stopped playing.

Unknown

walkyourpath wrote:

A customization idea:

Let me write my own one-liners for my heroes that show up for my opponents on defense. Maybe one phrase per power when it gets activated (could be part of the banner that already appears on ability activation so there's no additional time added to matches). Maybe one other phrase upon being defeated on defense and one for when your defensive team wins, ala Street Fighter 2.

Ex.:
Spider Man - Defeat
"Peter Parker picked a peck of pickled PvP!"

Lol. I would pay $5.00 to do that during pvp. And if it is a premium feature there won't be as much tinykitty profanity.

Twysta

finwe wrote:

Twysta wrote:

How much extra stuff can you make via facebook social?

Nowadays not much maybe 250 avg per day if you get lucky. It used to be a lot, but now I'd guess it's just 10% of what it was.They nerfed it harder than Bagnarok and Loki combined. Or maybe my whole friendlist already stopped playing.

Oh, that's not so bad then!
I felt like I was maybe missing out or something, but for 250. eh.

stowaway

Telicis wrote:

But comparing any mobile game, much less one in its infancy, to a fully realized 3d PC game like Marvel Heroes seems unfair.

(snip!)

Prices in mobile games with IAPs will always be higher - especially since it has to outweigh much higher costs in the short term. The HP->stuff price isn't as good, like you said... But if someone expects it to be, I'd wonder why. A lower quality game is a lower quality came - overpriced stuff included.

This may be a mobile game, but it's also a PC game. The prices compared to other FTP PC games are absurd. I have no idea what the pricing standards for mobile games are. For a PC gamer, you always have to consider that the cost of buying a singer cover for a character you already have is the same as buying a DLC for a AAA role playing game that might give you an entirely new area of a gameworld to explore. When the starter packs went on sale on Steam (I think it was 60% off?), I spent $17 on them. I figured, if the game was BTP, I would have dropped $20 on it. Why not spend around that amount on the freemium stuff? In retrospect, the discounted prices are about what they should have been without a discount.

For me, it's not about money, or finances, or what my entertainment budget is. I spend well over $17 a week on fleeting pleasures like restaurants, premium food items, booze. It's about value; I have in my head an amount I think the game is worth, and I will never, ever spend more than that amount. I might be persuaded to give them another $13. But not at the current prices, and not without more PvE story stuff than I can jump in on for 15 minutes and walk away from without worrying about my ranking.

Under this financial model, if a company needs to make $500, they can A) Persuade 100 people to spend $5, b) Persuade 10 people to spend $50, or C) Persuade one person to spend $500. Right now, at least for those of us playing on the PC, MPQ is not targeting category A. Not remotely. And people in category A think category C is preying on the mentally ill. Not a very neighborly way to feel about a group of developers whose offices I live a five minute walk from!

Unknown

stowaway wrote:

Telicis wrote:

But comparing any mobile game, much less one in its infancy, to a fully realized 3d PC game like Marvel Heroes seems unfair.

(snip!)

Prices in mobile games with IAPs will always be higher - especially since it has to outweigh much higher costs in the short term. The HP->stuff price isn't as good, like you said... But if someone expects it to be, I'd wonder why. A lower quality game is a lower quality came - overpriced stuff included.

This may be a mobile game, but it's also a PC game. The prices compared to other FTP PC games are absurd. I have no idea what the pricing standards for mobile games are. For a PC gamer, you always have to consider that the cost of buying a singer cover for a character you already have is the same as buying a DLC for a AAA role playing game that might give you an entirely new area of a gameworld to explore. When the starter packs went on sale on Steam (I think it was 60% off?), I spent $17 on them. I figured, if the game was BTP, I would have dropped $20 on it. Why not spend around that amount on the freemium stuff? In retrospect, the discounted prices are about what they should have been without a discount.

For me, it's not about money, or finances, or what my entertainment budget is. I spend well over $17 a week on fleeting pleasures like restaurants, premium food items, booze. It's about value; I have in my head an amount I think the game is worth, and I will never, ever spend more than that amount. I might be persuaded to give them another $13. But not at the current prices, and not without more PvE story stuff than I can jump in on for 15 minutes and walk away from without worrying about my ranking.

Under this financial model, if a company needs to make $500, they can A) Persuade 100 people to spend $5, b) Persuade 10 people to spend $50, or C) Persuade one person to spend $500. Right now, at least for those of us playing on the PC, MPQ is not targeting category A. Not remotely. And people in category A think category C is preying on the mentally ill. Not a very neighborly way to feel about a group of developers whose offices I live a five minute walk from!

As someone who personally prefers PC gaming by and large, I agree entirely - the prices just don't compare to a PC game.

Nor would I expect them to. Personally, I think putting this game in the PC market was a terrible idea. Yeah, it might turn some profit in the long run...

It's also going to be a very permanent black mark on their record with the PC market. They really shot themselves in the foot... Trying to make that transition like they've done it is like trying to take someone from one sport and just assume they'll do fine in another.

Unknown

Telicis wrote:

Nor would I expect them to. Personally, I think putting this game in the PC market was a terrible idea. Yeah, it might turn some profit in the long run...

It's also going to be a very permanent black mark on their record with the PC market. They really shot themselves in the foot... Trying to make that transition like they've done it is like trying to take someone from one sport and just assume they'll do fine in another.

Steam users are stickier, apparently.

I don't see it as a problem. A pile of roster slots costs (maybe being a little generous) roughly what a buy-once game of this sort would go for, so if you want to just buy it and then close your wallet that's a fairly obvious option. And most people playing know it's a phone game port and may or may not make allowances in various respects for that. Hard not to know it's a phone game, really. Mice have wheels, guys, and my screen is a whole lot bigger than your boost selection interface.