Limiting rosters for PVE - why???

Unknown

aesthetocyst wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

The real question is why does there have to scaling at all? Why are the game mechanics punishing players for doing well?

An attempt to keep all players on the same field in PvE and try to keep it fair to all. That requires handicapping. Whether that's the wisest approach is debatable but it's the approach this dev has always been committed to.

It's also why advanced players drift to PvP and view PvE as pulling teeth.

I've somehow managed to keep things reasonable and still enjoy farming PvE and occasionally finish as high as t10 (like, twice a year).

But **** my roster???

Heck, no.

Agree with this. I primarily play PVP. I use PVE mainly when there are good covers available or just to stock HP & boosts.

Der_Lex

puppychow wrote:

LOL. To each his own. Personally, by keeping my roster level lower, I can still use my max 1/2* to grind nodes and save on heal packs.

How many heals are the 270 players buying per sub to get/keep a top 10 placement? I suspect the answer is a lot.

Add me to the 0 health packs bought crowd as well. In those cases when I am running low, I crack open some of my stockpiled taco tokens until I get more.

Phumade

I have a pvp roster with
270Xf
240hb
220px
210throess.
15 3*166.

I made top 2 in every pve for the last 2 months (including heroics) or so. Scaling happens but having a good strategy and watch are much more important. I'm always amused when I see players with **** rosters. But at least is makes it easy for me in PVP.


Currently 109k in hulk pvp with the 3rd clear and grind left to do.

lukewin

rbdragon wrote:

I know it's been going on for a while, but I really don't get it...why would I want to limit my character's abilities out of fear of scaling?
...

*shrugs*....I dunno....I just don't get it....

Does it really matter that you get it? I think it only matters when the people that do it complain about not being able to do well in PVP and don't realize they're the source of their own problems. Otherwise, to each, their own.

Maybe they're ok with only doing well in PVE and choose not to play PVP, even though the reward to effort ratio is higher. The level of enjoyment is relative. I don't think everyone needs maxed characters to enjoy them. Some people just like having them on their roster.

I under level at 140. I also build dupes to save on healthpacks and not feel like my covers/rewards are going to waste. My level 40 Blade is buffed to 134 and has stood in when my level 140 Blade has gone down. I am top 2 in PVEs when I want, which is pretty often, and can easily hit 1k in PVP.

I like that the game allows us to make our own choices and play the way we want, instead of having a linear progression that you have to follow. I just don't get why others don't get it.

Unknown

Malcrof wrote:

I agree, and also disagree. Even when un-boosted, i use OBW regularly in Story mode.. right alongside boosted level 290's.. 2* Storm, even unboosted, can be a life-saver in some very high level nodes... a 5 turn stun.. yes pls..

heck, just for kicks i put a level 40 2* Hawkeye in a node with SW and GSBW.. his speedshot tiles do massive damage, especially with 10 of them on the board.

It is all about picking the right people for the nodes you are working.

many of those 2*s are going to be with you, even after your 3* transition is done, and you are working on 4*s.. or even 5*s.

In gauntlet-type nodes when other things fail and their steal or stun can make the difference - sure I bring them. Those nodes also usually require a lot of luck and retries.
But in normal fights when you don't need to rely on a miracle saving ability these squishy characters become a liability. When enemies are 3-5 times bigger and can one-shot them you usually can find a better option from your 3* stable that will do the job almost as effectively and without risk of losing this key character and the entire fight subsequently.
And sure forget about bringing them to PVP - you'll be the easiest punchbag on the block

Heartburn

i think it is a marvelous idea i only seem to use my 2*s when ares or obw is boosted and even then only ares is only really helpful. this game is a time sink better access to all your tools helps a bunch. also a hard cap and soft cap hero can vary greatly in power i foolish rush level my heroes as soon as they were able to way back when and found the difficult increased to the point where i could only use them in the fight and once they were down i was out. it got so bad my progress stopped for a month or so. but through the 300 reward tokens and some good pushing to placement i was able to get more to that level and then my placement started to recover. this seems as a efficient way to obtain the new releases as you have so many tools available for use. staying top 20 gets tricky on the onset of a new sub and saving Health packs can be hard. one other thing you can't go back once you pass it you have to leave it behind.

Unknown

Honestly, it's because I'm terrified that if I level up, I won't be ready for PVP either, and that I'd only end up hurting my ranking ability in PVE without helping my PVP much in the longish run. if I leveled up now.

But Deadpool's given me a lot of covers, so I'm not totally sure. Here's my roster. I got around 650K Iso saved up so I could bring a bunch of guys up to speed sorta, but I don't think GSBW/LazyCap/Patch/Falcon are great teamups for each other. Maybe Patch/Falcon but they're not their ideal builds either...and I don't know if that'd be enough. (/stealth roster advice request)

Like I don't feel that even if I made the 166 jump, I'd have a scary enough roster to get people to click "Skip". I'd probably at least make the 800 3* progression on occasion, which would be a first, but going all the way to the 4* level, without dumping a ton of HP in shields doesn't seem as, well, likely.

But I might be dumb and/or lazy. I've been trying to jump into late brackets of everything until I saw Legendary covers come up. Might actually give a try in Rocket & Groot, maybe.

Stealth roster advice topic go.

Ducky

I just figure the people who limit their roster levels are bad at matching 3.

Buying healthpacks because you have a maxed roster isn't because you have a maxed roster, it's either because you got insanely unlucky on boards/cascades during your grind down, or more likely, you just aren't the best at matching 3.

And for reference, when I want T2 in a PvE, I take it. I don't buy health packs in PvE. I play smart and rotate my roster when needed.

Unknown

I've been playing this game for 681 days, my roster contains all the 3* and 4* characters with 6 fully leveled 4* characters, 21 fully levelled 3* characters and 17 3* characters with full covers waiting to level up, (I ditched all 2* and 1*covers ages ago). Thing is, before I recently started visiting this place I honestly had absolutely no idea that scaling existed. I hit top 50 every PVE, achieve 1000 in PVP no problem when the buffs favour my roster and hit 7,500 every season. Can't ever get to 1300 in PVP though, always get jumped on way too hard after 1000.

Anyway, for me the continued draw of this game is collecting and levelling characters, without that I'd lose interest pretty quickly. So what I want to know is what is it that keeps people playing this game if they're not continually improving their rosters? What is the point of deliberately nerfing your roster to score high in PVE? What is your ambition? is it simply to stock pile iso? This is what I don't get.

Unknown

Puck wrote:

Anyway, for me the continued draw of this game is collecting and levelling characters, without that I'd lose interest pretty quickly. So what I want to know is what is it that keeps people playing this game if they're not continually improving their rosters? What is the point of deliberately nerfing your roster to score high in PVE? What is your ambition? is it simply to stock pile iso? This is what I don't get.

As somebody who has been doing that, I'd say I keep said feelings of progress!

I keep getting new roster spots and covers for 3*s and level up their abilities and add them to my team an all that junk!

I hope that "eh eventually I'll have like, 10 or so guys ready to hit 166 all at once or something" but the scary part is the idea of leaving behind most/all of my 2* buddies.

I love my LazyCap, but getting to a point where MN!Mags can't follow him would suck, as he is a pretty darn useful red and blue battery for LazyCap, and I don't have anything that can replace him in 3* Land 'cept IM40's deliberately red only recharge, which isn't quite the same. (Cyclops maybe EVENTUALLY but that'd be like, a year from now if I get lucky. And still leaves out the Blue battery issue, cause I sure ain't getting Iceman anytime soon either)

I'm leveling up and building a roster too! Just, mainly leveling up abilities.

(And soon regular levels too I guess)

Unknown

They've pretty much stopped introducing new 3* characters now (not to mention 2*/1*), so I think people are going to be forced to transition up anyway if they do want to keep improving their roster where previously they'd imposed their own artificial level cap.

Lemminkäinen

aesthetocyst wrote:

I would go ahead and level your Cage as high as you can. He's a great tank, one of the best. Even undercovered at lvl 127 he will serve you well.

I believe the prevailing current theory is that damage taken is the primary component in calculating scaling and that would sorta mean that you should avoid using Cage, right?

Linkster79

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

The real question is why does there have to scaling at all? Why are the game mechanics punishing players for doing well?

Because the power difference between a maxed 4* roster and a mid-level 2* roster is so incredibly huge that most of the content wouldn't be meaningful. It would either be impossible for the latter guy or ridiculously trivial for the former. And if they tried to cater to both, there would be a minimal amount of proper content for anyone.

If scaling were just a matter of having to deal with a higher health pool it wouldn't be an issue but as everyone's over scaled opponent Juggernaught proves it just becomes matches of attrition. Personally I love being Head-butted for over 4k damage while trying to deny 6ap, yes just 2 matches (/sarcasm).

Juggs is a bit of a special case, though. A level 200 Daken or Bullseye or Moonstone are annoying, yes, but not silly like Juggs (and, to a slightly lesser extent Ares).

I will give you Juggernaught is a special case, along with Ares, Venom, Bullseye and Moonstone because 9 out of bloody 10 story events have you battling them to infinity. I don't care how many 3* characters at L166 you have facing down those 3 all with levels in the upper 200's and you will be eating health packs like they are made of candy, especially if they are coupled with goons that feed them AP.

simonsez

OJSP wrote:

It made me contemplating to just buy some health packs outright if the situation arises in the future..

The other option would be to stock up from the vault preemptively before it's time to start you're grind (assuming you're already sitting at 10)

Lemminkäinen

Linkster79 wrote:

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

The real question is why does there have to scaling at all? Why are the game mechanics punishing players for doing well?

Because the power difference between a maxed 4* roster and a mid-level 2* roster is so incredibly huge that most of the content wouldn't be meaningful. It would either be impossible for the latter guy or ridiculously trivial for the former. And if they tried to cater to both, there would be a minimal amount of proper content for anyone.

If scaling were just a matter of having to deal with a higher health pool it wouldn't be an issue but as everyone's over scaled opponent Juggernaught proves it just becomes matches of attrition. Personally I love being Head-butted for over 4k damage while trying to deny 6ap, yes just 2 matches (/sarcasm).

Juggs is a bit of a special case, though. A level 200 Daken or Bullseye or Moonstone are annoying, yes, but not silly like Juggs (and, to a slightly lesser extent Ares).

I will give you Juggernaught is a special case, along with Ares, Venom, Bullseye and Moonstone because 9 out of bloody 10 story events have you battling them to infinity. I don't care how many 3* characters at L166 you have facing down those 3 all with levels in the upper 200's and you will be eating health packs like they are made of candy, especially if they are coupled with goons that feed them AP.

I think that Ares and Juggs are special cases because they are in part balanced by them taking damage with their attacks. Which is of no concern to the AI since it doesn't buy health packs The second thing about these two is that they have really low cost abilities that are very powerful and hard to deny. So I think that those two are problems due to their design in that when they scale up they turn really obnoxious while the rest of the usual suspects just turn annoying.

aesthetocyst wrote:

Lemminkäinen wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

I would go ahead and level your Cage as high as you can. He's a great tank, one of the best. Even undercovered at lvl 127 he will serve you well.

I believe the prevailing current theory is that damage taken is the primary component in calculating scaling and that would sorta mean that you should avoid using Cage, right?

PvE is about endurance. Unless fighting goons, I almost always have Cage or Spidey in the lineup to eliminate match damage.

Yes, damage taken is a component in scaling. I'd rather face enemies at a higher level than burn through health packs.

If you want to attempt to game scaling, the thing to do is to trot out your lower level toons against lower level nodes, not to get your A team beat up. Use defense to keep them going though the harder nodes. I'd also suggest using an expendable mid-level team against the essentials.

Ultimately, I'd suggest just playing the game without overthinking it

PvE can also be about speed. And at least lukewin seemed to believe that underleveled but overcovered characters lead to faster fights. Also, if you have a deep, even roster, you can have tremendous endurance. If you level up your six top-hitters your scaling will scale to them eventually and then the other 40+ characters are dead weight in the tougher nodes.

I do wish to note that I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you (in fact, I felt that your advice of granting a level here and another there is solid) - just that leveling the top chars (in order to compete in PvP maybe) might have consequences into PvE if you use them there.

Personally I'm currently limiting my characters to level 102 (104 to dudes who like to be in front like Gamora, Hulk, and Vision) and waiting to get good coverage for about a dozen three-stars until leveling them to 120. Then I plan on leveling them all up one or two levels at a time whenever I get another three-star to good coverage and can bring him/her to the fold, so to speak.

lukewin

Lemminkäinen wrote:

PvE can also be about speed. And at least lukewin seemed to believe that underleveled but overcovered characters lead to faster fights. Also, if you have a deep, even roster, you can have tremendous endurance.

PVE is definitely about speed, when it comes to grind time. The longer you wait, the more points regen. Even starting grind time an hour before someone else, can put you behind, if you're clearing the nodes the same amount of times. I never said that under leveled, optimally covered leads to faster fights. I believe the opposite, because I know that maxed rosters can grind faster than I can, thus requiring less time to grind, thus allowing more pts to regen. If it was me against a max roster, I need more time to hit the nodes for the same amount of times. The deep, even roster helps across all PVEs, but there are PVEs where everyone has the boosted required characters, eliminating the advantage of the deep, even roster.

Trying to avoid other Top 2 contenders, and being willing to put in the effort required to grind the PVEs, are the reasons that I end up being a Top 2 player.

puppychow

Der_Lex wrote:

puppychow wrote:

LOL. To each his own. Personally, by keeping my roster level lower, I can still use my max 1/2* to grind nodes and save on heal packs.

How many heals are the 270 players buying per sub to get/keep a top 10 placement? I suspect the answer is a lot.

Add me to the 0 health packs bought crowd as well. In those cases when I am running low, I crack open some of my stockpiled taco tokens until I get more.

I'm seeing quite a few replies saying that you're cracking open tacos for heals. And honestly I cringe every time I see this. Am i the only fella willing to wait for 300 tacos before raiding the vault?

To me, 100% chance to grab the legendary token > 3 heals.

Lemminkäinen

aesthetocyst wrote:

Lemminkäinen wrote:

PvE can also be about speed. And at least lukewin seemed to believe that underleveled but overcovered characters lead to faster fights. Also, if you have a deep, even roster, you can have tremendous endurance. If you level up your six top-hitters your scaling will scale to them eventually and then the other 40+ characters are dead weight in the tougher nodes.

To compete with the best of the PVE best for top 2 spots (or top 10 spots on new character PVEs), it is very much about speed. Each PVE has a cap on the total amount of points that can be generated. On the Hulk it is just over 175K. How close you get to the number depends on how consistent your 8hr clears are, and how quickly you can clear, esp in the grinds. The faster you are, the later you can wait to grind, the more points you can generate.

I have found that the higher I leveled my roster, the faster PvE has become. Sure my scaling has risen over time, but the increased enemy health hasn't kept pace with the increased power and flexibility of my roster. As the AI is not at all sophisticated in its play (that is, it doesn't play its high level teams any more intelligently than it plays its low level teams), the enemies in PvE scale in a linear fashion. Meanwhile, as you expand and level your roster, your power increases geometrically (higher stats • more combinations). If I had time, I could place top 2 in every PvP; I could not say that before!

Absolutely develop a deep even roster; as I advised, level characters as they are used. While building my 3s, I spent most of my time leveling from the bottom, constantly buying the cheapest levels available to me. And yes, have a deep bench, even to the point of building dupes of key characters, if slots aren't an issue.

Lemminkäinen wrote:

I do wish to note that I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you (in fact, I felt that your advice of granting a level here and another there is solid) - just that leveling the top chars (in order to compete in PvP maybe) might have consequences into PvE if you use them there.

If you'll note, I above advised the OP to avoid insta-maxing any character. I suggested "maxing" his Cage because its current cap is 127. I have not advised him to level specifically for PvP; if he wants to be competitive in PvP and not necessarily place top 20 in PvE, the advice would be different (make a "kill" team ASAP). What I advise is to level evenly, to have a flexible roster that can do well in all phases of the game, as opposed to intentionally avoiding leveling purely in an attempt to "game" PvE.

As I said, I'm not disagreeing with you Commenting (maybe, dare I say it... expanding) mostly.

All in all good stuff!

Dragon_Nexus

Malcrof wrote:

This is one of those things i am hoping the 5* characters will address. Unless they hoard legendary tokens, never to open them.. the ones who have stunted their rosters at a low level will end up with a single character starting at level 255. This should hopefully force them into leveling. Once leveled, a whole new world of MPQ will open to them.

I sat soft capped at 120 for a long time... once i decided to break that, and go for 166 for all 3 *s (getting there), PVP and even higher rankings in Story Mode started happening all by themselves.

The tiers exist for a reason, you can be just as successful at 166 as you can at lvl 94, and then again in the 200's.

The only difference is.. once you get enough lvl 166's, 4* covers start to come faster as 1k in PVP is attainable easily.. while still maintaining T20 or better in Story Mode (as i am doing right now in Hulk and the PVP's)

This is currently my placement. I'm maxing out at 166, even for my 4*s who could go higher.
I'm unsure as to when I want to break that barrier. In my head I'm saying when I get a 5*. At that point my barrier will be 255 so technically everyone else will be under levelled.

I don't really want to push my 1/3/5 X-Force Wolvie to 192 if he's not going to help me. Though I suppose my 3/5/2 Thoress or 2/5/5 Nick Fury would be useful at a higher level =/

Unknown

aesthetocyst wrote:

If you'll note, I above advised the OP to avoid insta-maxing any character. I suggested "maxing" his Cage because its current cap is 127. I have not advised him to level specifically for PvP; if he wants to be competitive in PvP and not necessarily place top 20 in PvE, the advice would be different (make a "kill" team ASAP). What I advise is to level evenly, to have a flexible roster that can do well in all phases of the game, as opposed to intentionally avoiding leveling purely in an attempt to "game" PvE.

Out of curiosity, what'dya mean by a "Kill" team?

I want to be able to hit 1000 in PVP without having to shield in my fancy pants dream world, and I already know LazyCap and Hood are top tier for fighting guys, but they're not as hot defensively, I think.

But yeah, I'm gonna max out my Cage, even out my good 3*s around, and figure out just how the heck am I supposed to use Sentry or Mystique anyways.

The main reason I'm even considering leveling is for PVP, but GSBW or LazyCap feels like they'd need better support then just a Hood to scare people defensively I'd guess.