Will We Ever Get A Patch Focused On Balancing?

Unknown

mindsuckr wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

They did recently say something about 4* buffs but I don't remember anything about 3*

I thought I remembered them saying they are focusing on the upcoming anniversary right now, and will not be looking at any real balancing until that's over.

right, but they said 4*thor and xfwolv would get a buff, as well as maybe other 4* when 5* chars came

BlackBoltRocks wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

STOPTHIS wrote:

What if they made 3* Iron Man a gold character? His 1* version bumped up to 3*. The 2 to 3* bump did wonders for Steve Rogers.

I have no idea what to do with 3* Spider-Man. He needs some kind of attack. I kind of want him to become something similar to the new 1* Spidey. I also think Bagman should be changed to Mile Morales.

1*Im sucks when scaled up

1*spidey just needs to replace 3*spidey, anyone a hacker?

2* Cap sucks when scaled up. 3* Cap scales wonderfully.

Just increase the damage on Repulsor Blast, increase damage and protect tile strength for Armoured Assault, and give Ballistic Salvo's effects to Ultra Freon Beam (increase the team damage and number of tiles destroyed. And generate AP, given the ridiculous cost)

someone did the math and 2*steve's ratios are really bad, and that's pretty much unique to him

plz no armoured assault

SnowcaTT

I wish we would. I fear that the process goes like this:

Dev: "I have an idea for a great new ability we could put on Iron Man"!
Moneyman: "Great! Put that idea on a new character!"
Dev: "But...Iron Man needs help, this will balance and fix him!"
Moneyman: "No one is going to pay for Iron Man, they'll pay for the new character!"

Lots of the older characters (just looking at 3*'s for now) really need to be boosted: IM, Rags, Punisher, Hulk...the health non-buff apparently killed off Hulk and Loki (looking at how many times he was suggested in the worst team composition).

Quite awhile there was a (IceIX?) quote that was "We don't want any 'best' or 'worst' character". I don't know if it is made better when there may not be any 'worst', but instead there is a tier of 'worst' (in all star levels), all of who are basically unused. They have the data of characters not played - they have to see characters like Elektra, Iron Man, 2* Cap are fractionally played compared to their level-mates.

TxMoose

SnowcaTT wrote:

...the health non-buff apparently killed off Hulk and Loki (looking at how many times he was suggested in the worst team composition).

I didn't take it that way. loki is great for ap control but you have to have offensive ap users for him to be of any use. put him with falcon and spidey and he gets ap for no offensive abilities. protects/stuns/board shake/fake healing - you cannot win with that.

LordWill

Snow is on the right track.

There is no burning reason for them to do any balancing. Some characters will be good, some won't.

And it comes down to money. They just won't make any money on balancing characters when they can just create new ones.

If you stop and look at the whole treadmill process, the answer becomes very apparent.


My advice, lower your expectations, then nothing will disappoint you and any positive changes will be a surprise.

Unknown

hulk is ok since he can hulkbomb

if they arent gonna buff characters, just retire them so they can RIP rest in pieces

Crowl

LordWill wrote:

Snow is on the right track.

There is no burning reason for them to do any balancing. Some characters will be good, some won't.

And it comes down to money. They just won't make any money on balancing characters when they can just create new ones.

If you stop and look at the whole treadmill process, the answer becomes very apparent.

The thing is though, so many of these duff characters could be very quickly improved if not fixed by lowering a cost or increasing damage etc.

Making some quick changes to the worst 1* and 2* in particular could actually help their profits in the long run, new people might stick around long enough to spend some money if their initial experiences are improved and removing things like the counter-intuitive covering of 1* widow etc. were removed.

Unknown

All 1* Widow needs is Espionage from OBW mapped down to her as well. Problem fixed.

I do agree that most characters just need cost adjustments however. In the 3 star range, the only "dud" power I can think of offhand is Psylocke's Bewilder. Im sure others have other opinions.

IM40 could be fixed with a dramatic cost decrease in his blue and red, but I still think my above "Deadpool Gimmick" Fix is much more fun.

LordWill

Crowl wrote:

The thing is though, so many of these duff characters could be very quickly improved if not fixed by lowering a cost or increasing damage etc.

Making some quick changes to the worst 1* and 2* in particular could actually help their profits in the long run, new people might stick around long enough to spend some money if their initial experiences are improved and removing things like the counter-intuitive covering of 1* widow etc. were removed.

There is no sane person that would argue that a lot of characters COULD be balanced and made decent and playable. I'm just saying. I've been playing about 2 years and I'm not holding my breath for them to change their MO anytime soon, it just isn't going to happen.

Crowl

LordWill wrote:

There is no sane person that would argue that a lot of characters COULD be balanced and made decent and playable. I'm just saying. I've been playing about 2 years and I'm not holding my breath for them to change their MO anytime soon, it just isn't going to happen.

Me neither, but it is a shame they couldn't assign the intern an afternoon to sort out the simple stuff.

Unknown

Crowl wrote:

LordWill wrote:

There is no sane person that would argue that a lot of characters COULD be balanced and made decent and playable. I'm just saying. I've been playing about 2 years and I'm not holding my breath for them to change their MO anytime soon, it just isn't going to happen.

Me neither, but it is a shame they couldn't assign the intern an afternoon to sort out the simple stuff.

that intern is too busy working on shuma gorath 5*

MarcusGraves

LordWill wrote:

There is no sane person that would argue that a lot of characters COULD be balanced and made decent and playable. I'm just saying. I've been playing about 2 years and I'm not holding my breath for them to change their MO anytime soon, it just isn't going to happen.

not with that attitude it won't, the problem is though I think the forum goers really shot themselves in the foot with getting the devs to listen to us more seriously considering everyone scared the living s*** out of them with what happened with in the past on Ragnarok, spider-man and probably the XFW/thor4* nerf, but the Rag/Spider-man incident really felt like the turning point of everything. Now they're very tight lipped to share or even do major changes to characters anymore now that the adding of a 3rd power to 2/3*'s is done. I'm sure the backlash from the most current Rag rework didn't help either where they actually managed to make him even worse and people got mad again.

Other half of the issue to me feels like not enough people even care about balancing to cause enough of a reaction out of them in a sensible manner and not scare them back into the rabbit hole. If you really look, there's only a handful of us on here that to a certain degree of consistency, discuss the actual balance of something be it here or in character discussion and when we really hammer it out we usually put out some good results.

nwman

Also if you look at a game that is called balanced ie hearthstone, you just end up with everyone complaining new cards / characters are the same and uninspired.

I'm sane and against balance changes. Why?

I'm scared of any balance changes for the reason I already posted. What happens when you fight the ai 5/5/5 version of the new balanced character? Oh yeah you lose.

MarcusGraves

nwman wrote:

Also if you look at a game that is called balanced ie hearthstone, you just end up with everyone complaining new cards / characters are the same and uninspired.

I'm sane and against balance changes. Why?

I'm scared of any balance changes for the reason I already posted. What happens when you fight the ai 5/5/5 version of the new balanced character? Oh yeah you lose.

I have and will NEVER consider this a true argument against balancing as we already do fight 5/5/5 AI versions of good characters in PvE and people obviously still come out on top.

to be against making some characters better just because you're afraid of their 5/5/5 form that doesn't always appear unless they are a high enough level is kinda silly considering that we in turn get to be able to use said improved character everywhere else we can.

Unknown

I would love buffing if PvE AIs didn't get the same treatment and stay as they are.
No one sane wants to fight Juggs or Venom with 3 powers.

Buffing certain characters (IW, Elektra, Iron Man, etc) would benefit the game.
1. People can play their favorites and not die a little inside.
2. Having almost everyone playable would sell more roster slots because people will want to house more characters.
3. PvE will be more enjoyable, having to use essentials won't be as miserable. (Gauntlet with Quicksilver... Really?!)
4. PvP will have more diverse combinations. Maybe I'll see an Elektra in PvP... Someday.
5. Less power creep.

Dragon_Nexus

raisinbman wrote:

STOPTHIS wrote:

What if they made 3* Iron Man a gold character? His 1* version bumped up to 3*. The 2 to 3* bump did wonders for Steve Rogers.

I have no idea what to do with 3* Spider-Man. He needs some kind of attack. I kind of want him to become something similar to the new 1* Spidey. I also think Bagman should be changed to Mile Morales.

1*Im sucks when scaled up

1*spidey just needs to replace 3*spidey, anyone a hacker?

When they showed off 1* Spider Man I realised what he existed for.
He exists for things like Gauntlet or Prodigal Sun. A new character they can scale up to ruin our day. He's not really for using in day-to-day combat, he exists to be boosted to level 300+, just like Ares.

MarcusGraves

guess its time for this be moved over to the suggestion forum if a mod wants to do it, some good stuff going on here, hate for it to die.

Mod Edit: I'll give it another day or two, if it's still not active then I will move it to Suggestions and Feedback forum.

Unknown

I honestly suspect the best thing we could do as a community is pick the 5 most needed characters for a Balance Pass, and then hold a community vote. Things like the age since last revision should definitely be a factor into the selection of those characters, as anytime a patch has been made to a character it's safe to assume the character was reviewed over all.

Also, I would suggest it be limited to 3 star characters. The 2 star roster outside Bag is pretty solid, and 1 star needs more than just a balance pass, but at the same time, is sped by so quickly it can be ignored.

Punisher5784

The only way we'll see a bunch of character "buffs" is if one character is getting nerfed such as the time XFW's nerf was hidden in between all the buffs to IW, Beast, Doc Ock, and She-Hulk. They tried to make up the nerf by buffing a few others.

They have not truly buffed a character since Daredevil (I am not counting Ragnarok) but I think that was more to promote Elektra's release. Problem is, how can they make money on buffed characters when everyone likely has them fully covered, unless they change around which cover is powerful like switching the damage from XFW's Green to Yellow. I'm sure some players bought the revised Yellow as a result.

IceIX

We will probably never have a patch "focused on balancing". We very likely will do buff/nerf runs as part of normal patches in the future though. As pointed out: Sure, we won't be making much, if any, money off the buffs and nerfs themselves. But that's not why those are done. They're done to create a better gameplay environment for everyone. And a better gameplay environment means more fun and thus more play. It's just good sense.

Trilateralus

Besides replacing Smash (completely) the most important thing Hulk needs is to have Anger trigger on a set amount of damage (or at least a percentage of his current health rather than total). It doesn't make any sense that the more you level Hulk the less useful Anger is.