A Need to Change When You Become "Visible" to all in PvP

notamutant

With the ever increasing PvP scores required, one thing doesn't seem to have changed: when you become visible for attack by players at all points ranges. I don't see why I should become visible for attack when I have 900 points by a player that only has 200 points, when there are 30 people shielded with 1300 points. It isn't fair that the visibility spreads so much. They need to raise the level that players become visible to those far below their point range to make it so it isn't impossible to climb.

MarvelMan

Id agree something needs to be done. With 10 hours left in Hollowpoint I passed 800, at around 75th rank. I could barely progress from there due to getting zombie horded by "late" climbers having 300-400 points. That puts an emphasis on climbing early, using extra shields and is just generally frustrating. Not sure a point level is the way to go...maybe more along the lines of rank (T25 visible to -500 pt?).

fmftint

Will you say the same when you can't queue the guys at 1500? Why should you at 900 be able to get a +60 queue on a guy 600 points ahead of you?

GrumpySmurf1002

notamutant wrote:

With the ever increasing PvP scores required, one thing doesn't seem to have changed: when you become visible for attack by players at all points ranges. I don't see why I should become visible for attack when I have 900 points by a player that only has 200 points, when there are 30 people shielded with 1300 points. It isn't fair that the visibility spreads so much. They need to raise the level that players become visible to those far below their point range to make it so it isn't impossible to climb.

While I agree to an extent, how do you prevent someone sitting on a retaliation from early in the PvP until the end? Or sitting on a queue when they find a big name early?

Because that's a decent chunk of when it's happening.

Salgy

notamutant wrote:

They need to raise the level that players become visible to those far below their point range to make it so it isn't impossible to climb.

the problem with this is that if you make the searchable range closer to your score, 3-4 well coordinated players could run and hide just hitting off each others shields... climbing above the ceiling where they could be targeted and make themselves invisible... no real reason to even shield if no one can see you...

although it is frustrating to have players below you able to see you, it really is the only fair way to give everyone a chance to catch-up and possibly win a bracket... and this is coming from someone who has been hit by people 2,000 points below me... and no, that's not a typo...

Lloyd Christmas

For me i don't care so much that those people with 300 points can see me when I have 1200, the problem is how quickly I am thrown into everyone's queue. It would be nice if there was a 4-5 minute grace period after you break shield before you are thrown to the wolves, because there are people tapping that skip button like crazy looking for you. At least you might have a chance to finish 2 matches before you are hit for 100+. And this problem becomes extremely exaggerated when you happen to be in a dry time slice.

Pinko_McFly

Would something like a point loss modifier that is based on your participation in the event work? Sounds confusing but what I simply mean is :

• If you've played less than 10 matches, you lose the points as normal
• 11-20 matches, your points lost is down by 10%
• 21-30 matches, your points lost is down by 20%

And so on to a reasonable limit (50%?). I don't know what the usual number of matches per person is, this was just an example to show the breakdown easily.

This would put more points in the system, so maybe a complementary tax on points earned until you reach a certain number of matches as well

CrookedKnight

Salgy wrote:

notamutant wrote:

They need to raise the level that players become visible to those far below their point range to make it so it isn't impossible to climb.

the problem with this is that if you make the searchable range closer to your score, 3-4 well coordinated players could run and hide just hitting off each others shields... climbing above the ceiling where they could be targeted and make themselves invisible... no real reason to even shield if no one can see you...

although it is frustrating to have players below you able to see you, it really is the only fair way to give everyone a chance to catch-up and possibly win a bracket... and this is coming from someone who has been hit by people 2,000 points below me... and no, that's not a typo...

I think it's reasonable to raise the "visible to all limit" given that average scores are much much higher than they were a few months ago, but that doesn't mean it should be eliminated.

Konman

Don't have shields make you invisible to begin with. The only reason you get blasted when you break a shield, is that everyone else around you is still shielded, so you are effectively the only visible target. Make shielded players visible and create a tone more potential targets. The shielded players will not take any damage still, but have a chance at defensive wins, and the target isn't necessarily on the people still trying for points.

I actually put this in the "Suggestion" sub-forum.

Unknown

notamutant wrote:

I don't see why I should become visible for attack when I have 900 points by a player that only has 200 points, when there are 30 people shielded with 1300 points. It isn't fair that the visibility spreads so much.

What do the people who are shielded, and thus invisible, have to do with you being unshielded and visibile? If your argument was that it's not fair that you're visible and getting attacked while other players in your bracket are at similar points or slightly higher points and not being attacked, then that is likely due to the team you are running compared to the team they're running.

Consider these two fight options:
65 points - Maxed featured character (Let's say... Loki), max buffed Carnage, max buffed Jean Grey
55 points - Level 200 featured, max unbuffed 3* Cap, 200 buffed Beast

I'm hitting the second one if I'm climbing, first one if I'm hopping. People who are in the 200 range, are climbing. They want multiple easy fights for slightly lower points rather than a few health pack eating fights for a bit more points. Better to do 4 fights for the same points and not waste health packs over 3 fights that leave you unable to play anymore. Hopping is the exception to that, but you're talking about likely being queued by people who are still climbing. Your team likely doesn't scare them off.

Konman wrote:

Don't have shields make you invisible to begin with. The only reason you get blasted when you break a shield, is that everyone else around you is still shielded, so you are effectively the only visible target. Make shielded players visible and create a tone more potential targets. The shielded players will not take any damage still, but have a chance at defensive wins, and the target isn't necessarily on the people still trying for points.

I actually put this in the "Suggestion" sub-forum.

This is a 'suggestion' that has come up repeatedly. It's the way shields used to work when they originally were implemented. Putting them back to that function sounds nice, but would essentially turn each PVP into a 60 hour lightning round. Point inflation would be ridiculous (it used to be that way long ago as well, long before seasons even started). Someone climbs to say... 900. They slap on a shield, but are still able to be queued by everyone. As the points trickle down, soon everyone can have 900 points, so a few go higher and shield. Then everyone reaches that equilibrium. Currently there is a reward for playing more than others. That's always been the case. But there's also some strategy involved in when to hop, how many fights per hop, what teams to use to decrease the chances that someone will finish fighting you while you're out, risk/reward of hitting harder but higher value targets. If you could queue shielded people, you'd always be able to search out easier teams who were shielded, never have to fight hard teams, and climb your way easily past all of the progressions.

Before time slices were a thing for PVP, but seasons were newly in effect, back in Season 1 during Falcon's Top Gun, there was a player named kyip. kyip got up to a reasonable score and shielded. But something was bugged and kyip was still visible. Word got out and everyone found kyip. Most won, but enough lost that soon kyip's score was getting really high as well (ultimately ended up over 1900 due to defensive wins while shielded). People easily hit 1400 without shielding, many ended up over 1700. Keep in mind this is back when victories were maxed out at 50 points each. That's from just one high value target able to be repeatedly mined for points. Someone in one of the threads said they'd hit kyip at least ten times themselves. Now imagine a scenario where it's not one kyip, but everyone is a kyip.

Unknown

high point seed bots solves this problem

Ducky

raisinbman wrote:

high point seed bots solves this problem

How is this a good idea at all?

acescracked

Why is the PvP so hard??? This is not fair. I want a simple easy game where I get 1300 points with no challenge or effort.

I want a PvP mode where I can hit everyone shielded or not and nobody can hit me. I want to win every PvP with my mid leveled 3 stars. I want to be the best PvP player after 100 days even though there are alot of players at 500 days plus. I want to not spend any money.

Please make everything easy for me!!!!!!! \whine \red wine or white?

notamutant

acescracked wrote:

Why is the PvP so hard??? This is not fair. I want a simple easy game where I get 1300 points with no challenge or effort.

I want a PvP mode where I can hit everyone shielded or not and nobody can hit me. I want to win every PvP with my mid leveled 3 stars. I want to be the best PvP player after 100 days even though there are alot of players at 500 days plus. I want to not spend any money.

Please make everything easy for me!!!!!!! \whine \red wine or white?

You sound like the only one whining.

atomzed

raisinbman wrote:

high point seed bots solves this problem

It will be worse. If the high point seed bots always give 50 points, even at 1300, the top players will just climb higher and faster off the seeds.

notamutant

atomzed wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

high point seed bots solves this problem

It will be worse. If the high point seed bots always give 50 points, even at 1300, the top players will just climb higher and faster off the seeds.

There are two separate issues. One is high scores overall. That is not an issue in my opinion. There will always be people trying to reach higher scores to get top placement. The second issue is progression. They are now basically saying you cannot progress in the game without getting top progression in PvP. I have no idea if high point seed teams is a solution or not, but it isn't right that people have to freak out about unshielding for 5 minutes because they will lose 200 points when they are already at 1.1k.

Unknown

atomzed wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

high point seed bots solves this problem

It will be worse. If the high point seed bots always give 50 points, even at 1300, the top players will just climb higher and faster off the seeds.

who cares, I'd actually get to 1300

or since ppl don't like my logic read this:

notamutant wrote:

atomzed wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

high point seed bots solves this problem

It will be worse. If the high point seed bots always give 50 points, even at 1300, the top players will just climb higher and faster off the seeds.

There are two separate issues. One is high scores overall. That is not an issue in my opinion. There will always be people trying to reach higher scores to get top placement. The second issue is progression. They are now basically saying you cannot progress in the game without getting top progression in PvP. I have no idea if high point seed teams is a solution or not, but it isn't right that people have to freak out about unshielding for 5 minutes because they will lose 200 points when they are already at 1.1k.

Linkster79

j12601 wrote:

Before time slices were a thing for PVP, but seasons were newly in effect, back in Season 1 during Falcon's Top Gun, there was a player named kyip. kyip got up to a reasonable score and shielded. But something was bugged and kyip was still visible. Word got out and everyone found kyip. Most won, but enough lost that soon kyip's score was getting really high as well (ultimately ended up over 1900 due to defensive wins while shielded). People easily hit 1400 without shielding, many ended up over 1700. Keep in mind this is back when victories were maxed out at 50 points each. That's from just one high value target able to be repeatedly mined for points. Someone in one of the threads said they'd hit kyip at least ten times themselves. Now imagine a scenario where it's not one kyip, but everyone is a kyip.

The Ladder was the first person who broke 2k if I remember correctly, possibly WalkYourPath did too.

Personally I would like to see either the end of shields, take it back to being old school. Shield hopping in its current state isn't in keeping of the spirit of the idea when shields first came out. The premise behind it was to avoid the last 60 minute feeding frenzy, not to coordinate with pseudo-friends to amass a huge score. Or if that is too unpopular then allow the purchase of just a single shield per event, obviously allow more options towards the end of the events say 30, 60, 90, 120, 180 and 240 minutes then 6, 8, 12 and 24 hours. This way your score can still be protected.

cyineedsn

raisinbman wrote:

who cares, I'd actually get to 1300

Almost every pvp change suggestions boil down to this. But hasn't it been stated somewhere in other posts that they make their changes based on a % of people hitting progression rewards?

In other words, what makes you think they would add high level seed bots, so everyone would have an easier time getting to 1300, and then change NOTHING else. I think it's more likely that they would add high level seed bots, then RAISE the 1300 progression reward to 2000 or 2300 because according to their new metrics now it's TOO easy to hit 1300. Which will then lead to groaning about how pvp is becoming more of a grind, just like pve.

Unknown

cyineedsn wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

who cares, I'd actually get to 1300

Almost every pvp change suggestions boil down to this. But hasn't it been stated somewhere in other posts that they make their changes based on a % of people hitting progression rewards?

In other words, what makes you think they would add high level seed bots, so everyone would have an easier time getting to 1300, and then change NOTHING else. I think it's more likely that they would add high level seed bots, then RAISE the 1300 progression reward to 2000 or 2300 because according to their new metrics now it's TOO easy to hit 1300. Which will then lead to groaning about how pvp is becoming more of a grind, just like pve.

I don't think they'd do it. As you can see by the responses against me, lack of upvotes, etc. Others don't agree. As much of this forum believes, I am simply a lone person; the troll who cries wolf.

All I know is there's allegedly folks hitting 3k+ points in PVP and I'm not seeing any of it.

I can hit progression EVERYWHERE but in 2.5 day PVPs. Why is that? If progression is really supposed to be that elite time-gate it or make it so only X number of people can get it.

Trickle Down Economics don't work folks.

Side Note: Ironically enough(that seems to be my calling card) I will possibly be hitting 1,300 for the first time in Heavy Metal. I still believe my point stands for the health of EVERY PVP bracket, not just certain ones.

cyineedsn

raisinbman wrote:

I don't think they'd do it. As you can see by the responses against me, lack of upvotes, etc. Others don't agree. As much of this forum believes, I am simply a lone person; the troll who cries wolf.

All I know is there's allegedly folks hitting 3k+ points in PVP and I'm not seeing any of it.

I can hit progression EVERYWHERE but in 2.5 day PVPs. Why is that? If progression is really supposed to be that elite time-gate it or make it so only X number of people can get it.

Trickle Down Economics don't work folks.

Side Note: Ironically enough(that seems to be my calling card) I will possibly be hitting 1,300 for the first time in Heavy Metal. I still believe my point stands for the health of EVERY PVP bracket, not just certain ones.

To be honest, I do think that down the road something like what you suggest will exist. After a couple 5* releases, maybe add another 6-12 4*s, and they will probably make changes so that 1300 (or whatever the equivalent will be) will become alot easier. I just don't think that time is here yet...another....3 months? 6 maybe? I'm pulling numbers out of the air here.