Ways to improve next round of character rankings

Ebolamonkey84

Hey everyone,

I was thinking of doing the next batch of character rankings around the 2nd anniversary of the game, but I would like some feedback to possibly make them more useful to everyone.

1. What do you prefer? Ranking all of the characters in order or assigning each character value on a scale (1-10)?

2. What factors do you consider when determining what rank a character should have?

3. Would you be willing to rate a character on various elements of the game (PVE vs PVP, sustained climbs, shield hops, scarecrow potential) and have those factors weighted appropriately to determine an overall score?

4. Would you be willing to login to a website to vote rather than do it anonymously?
One benefit of this would be a possible continuous ranking, where you would only ever really have to rank new characters and changed characters.

5. Should characters of different star levels have their score scaled accordingly to avoid lower tier characters being ranked too high?
One of the complaints from last time was that the best characters of each tier (Juggs, OBW) were ranked too highly due to people rating them relative to others of the same tier.

6. Do you have any other suggestions to make it better?

TheOncomingStorm

I was thinking character power rankings would be better than voted rankings. But the more I think about it, the more work I realize it would take. So please don't let me stand on the way of someone else doing it.

By someone, I mean someone knowledgeable.

Basically, you figure out categories to use for every character such as health, damage per ap, aoe, stun, board shake etc., then you tally the category scores to determine the character's power ranking.

Scoregasms

Someone posted a thread about disaster strikes and you lose your roster and you had to keep 5 characters only to rebuild around, something like that may apply here.

Maybe do one for PVE and have folks rank the top 10 characters they would use and then do the same for PVP. Though, boosted seems to sort of throw a wrinkle in both areas of play honestly, which makes rankings a little more difficult (i.e. I haven't used HB at all last 2 PVPs and used Panther instead just because, but I wouldn't rank Panther above HB normally).

Then just compile the list that way. Ranking all the characters is kinda of tedious, but perhaps preface it with what phase in the game you are in (4*, 3*-4*, 3*, 2*-3*, etc) so even the 2* get ranked by folks who use them regularly and you can place them in the appropriate ranking per what phase of the game you are in.

TheOncomingStorm

Also, unlike character voted rankings, unless a character is changed, the rankings only change when a new character is added.

scottee

I'd find it much more useful to find like 10 top level players, have them rank the characters, and then average the results. Having random people contribute just makes it about popularity or skews in favor of characters people actually have. I don't care as much about what people's perceptions about power are as I do about solid analysis.

udonomefoo

scottee wrote:

I'd find it much more useful to find like 10 top level players, have them rank the characters, and then average the results. Having random people contribute just makes it about popularity or skews in favor of characters people actually have. I don't care as much about what people's perceptions about power are as I do about solid analysis.

This is what I was thinking too. Many, if not most, of the people participating in the poll would not have really had a chance to figure out the full potential of each character. I do the polls and I don't have a single 4* fully covered.

It is interesting to see who the majority thinks are the best, but would be more useful if it were completed only by those with actual experience using them all.

TheOncomingStorm

udonomefoo wrote:

scottee wrote:

I'd find it much more useful to find like 10 top level players, have them rank the characters, and then average the results. Having random people contribute just makes it about popularity or skews in favor of characters people actually have. I don't care as much about what people's perceptions about power are as I do about solid analysis.

This is what I was thinking too. Many, if not most, of the people participating in the poll would not have really had a chance to figure out the full potential of each character. I do the polls and I don't have a single 4* fully covered.

It is interesting to see who the majority thinks are the best, but would be more useful if it were completed only by those with actual experience using them all.

I agree. We should have a poll to see who does the poll.

I nominate oc and dauthi.

lukewin

6. Do you have any other suggestions to make it better?

Let _ai_in_b_a_ do them.

pic of trollface, since I'm too lazy to look one up

Ebolamonkey84

So far the only real suggestion seems to be to no longer make the character rankings based on input from the entire community, instead leaving it in the hands of a few higher end players to decide the rankings themselves.

I was hoping that more people would provide input, as I thought those threads were considered useful and was trying to improve them.

xellessanova

I thought these were very useful! Perceived strength is a huge part of MPQ, and it's useful to see how the group regards characters as a whole.

I think a straight ranking of the characters (with no regard to star tiers) would be best, but I think there should be two separate ladder ranks for PVE and PVP that would get averaged out at the end.

Maybe a caveat where you could check "I have not played this character enough" to skip and not rate?

Sub-attributes like scarecrow / sustainability / shield hop power are functions that increase the rank in PVE or PVP, but they might make it too complicated to set up and filter or too time consuming to rank. Although I did like the ratings in the current editions character writeups.

TxMoose

xellessanova wrote:

Maybe a caveat where you could check "I have not played this character enough" to skip and not rate?

I think that would help a lot, especially with the ****s. I know I have no business ranking any of the **** but if I'm forced to do so i'll just be going by what I hear on the forums. a select group to rank the ****s with discussion posted between them to go along with */**/*** rankings by the masses? or even include ****s could be interesting to see the differences between general public opinion and those who actually play ****s opinion.

side note: I think this next ranking is where lthor drops like a bag of rocks. I hardly use him any more unless boosted, but that can be said of most.

Lidolas

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

Hey everyone,

I was thinking of doing the next batch of character rankings around the 2nd anniversary of the game, but I would like some feedback to possibly make them more useful to everyone.

1. What do you prefer? Ranking all of the characters in order or assigning each character value on a scale (1-10)?

2. What factors do you consider when determining what rank a character should have?

3. Would you be willing to rate a character on various elements of the game (PVE vs PVP, sustained climbs, shield hops, scarecrow potential) and have those factors weighted appropriately to determine an overall score?

4. Would you be willing to login to a website to vote rather than do it anonymously?
One benefit of this would be a possible continuous ranking, where you would only ever really have to rank new characters and changed characters.

5. Should characters of different star levels have their score scaled accordingly to avoid lower tier characters being ranked too high?
One of the complaints from last time was that the best characters of each tier (Juggs, OBW) were ranked too highly due to people rating them relative to others of the same tier.

6. Do you have any other suggestions to make it better?

You could create the categories you want to evaluate the characters on. AoE damage, single damage, stuns, steals, strike, attack, protect tiles, scarecrow, etc. Give each character 0-10 stars for each category. Then rank the heroes based on total stars. You could even weight the categories so something that might not be as important, like strikes and attack tiles, only get 0-5 stars.

Punisher5784

1. What do you prefer? Ranking all of the characters in order or assigning each character value on a scale (1-10)?
I like choosing between 1-10, it works.

2. What factors do you consider when determining what rank a character should have?
I factor in how good they are for their tier, not the overall game. For example, OBW is a 10 for 2*, Juggs is the best of the 1* and so on. I also consider how useful they are for particular situations, this is why I created the Character Ability Poll to act as a supplement to yours.

3. Would you be willing to rate a character on various elements of the game (PVE vs PVP, sustained climbs, shield hops, scarecrow potential) and have those factors weighted appropriately to determine an overall score?
Yes as stated above. Every character has their usefulness in some way, shape or form. Doc Ock may look useless but against a team of tile generators, he comes in handy.

4. Would you be willing to login to a website to vote rather than do it anonymously?
One benefit of this would be a possible continuous ranking, where you would only ever really have to rank new characters and changed characters.
Yes I think that is a great idea

5. Should characters of different star levels have their score scaled accordingly to avoid lower tier characters being ranked too high?
One of the complaints from last time was that the best characters of each tier (Juggs, OBW) were ranked too highly due to people rating them relative to others of the same tier.
I don't see anything wrong with OBW making T20, she's great at all levels of play. You also have to consider the fact that every is buffed character weekly. This brings 2* characters to level 150, so yeah a level 150 Ares is much better than some level 166 3*'s. I do not believe the buffed characters were implemented prior to your last poll or it was still new.

6. Do you have any other suggestions to make it better?
As others have stated above, many players who vote may not have all the characters and covers to fully understand how good they are, especially 4*'s. I would suggest asking questions: What level player are? 4*, 3*, 3* Transitioner, 2*, 1*/New. And What do you often play? PVP, PVE, Both about the same. I believe these simply questions would help as you could also eliminate the newbie participants from the survey or at least give us an understanding of the demographic that completed the survey rankings.

Good luck and Good work!

GMadMan040

Thank you very much for putting this together and thank you for asking these questions. The character ranking sheets were immensely helpful to me when I first started the game and keeping them up to date and fresh is a huge thing!

1. What do you prefer? Ranking all of the characters in order or assigning each character value on a scale (1-10)?

A scale value is perfect. It will encourage more participation; ranking a full list of 70+ characters is extremely time consuming. Having an "abstain" option so that voters can skip players that they have no experience with may be helpful, if they choose to do so. I would.

2. What factors do you consider when determining what rank a character should have?

Mostly in order - overall usefulness, flexibility (fits on multiple teams), synergy of powers, offensive capabilities, specialized usefulness, PVP scarecrows

3. Would you be willing to rate a character on various elements of the game (PVE vs PVP, sustained climbs, shield hops, scarecrow potential) and have those factors weighted appropriately to determine an overall score?

Not only willing, but this is the best way to do it. My take - keep it relatively simple - one score for PVP, one score for PVE.

4. Would you be willing to login to a website to vote rather than do it anonymously?

Completely personal, but I would rather avoid having yet another website to log on to.

5. Should characters of different star levels have their score scaled accordingly to avoid lower tier characters being ranked too high?

Without a doubt. Sure, there is the odd character who fits in well past their expiration date in terms of transitioning (OBW, looking at you, you sexy thing), but when you have a solid 3* roster, you mostly use all 3* characters. From what I've experienced, the same is true at all the other levels.
Weekly buffed characters are something to consider, but if a character is at the top of the two star chart, let's say Ares, they are going to be that much better when buffed, so that should not have much impact on the decision making process.

6. Do you have any other suggestions to make it better?

Aside from ranking by star rarity and splitting the PVE & PVP rankings, not really. Definitely DO NOT confine rankings to a small group of "elite" players. Community involvement is a huge element in this game and this forum. It should stay that way. Unless you're talking about the super top secret, uber-elite, app that shall not be named club. Then just have them do the voting. And give them 1000HP for each vote, because they need it.

mgallop

GMadMan040 wrote:

1. What do you prefer? Ranking all of the characters in order or assigning each character value on a scale (1-10)?

Ranking is too time consuming, but would it be possible to rank them 1-20? Would be easier to distinguish between the top characters (JG/HB: 20s), the really really good characters (IF/XFDP: 19s) and the characters who are top tier when boosted (Cyke/Cage: 18s) if we have a few more points to play with
2. What factors do you consider when determining what rank a character should have?

Usefulness in PvP climb, usefulness in shield hopping, usefulness against the 3 difficult PvE nodes.

3. Would you be willing to rate a character on various elements of the game (PVE vs PVP, sustained climbs, shield hops, scarecrow potential) and have those factors weighted appropriately to determine an overall score?

I'd agree that we should split PvP, PvE. Show both lists, and then combine them in a way that weighs PvP 2/3rds. Any more categories and the list becomes worse at measuring which characters are actually better.

4. Would you be willing to login to a website to vote rather than do it anonymously?

Anonymous

5. Should characters of different star levels have their score scaled accordingly to avoid lower tier characters being ranked too high?

I'm not sure about this one, OBW is better than a lot of 3*s, and Ares is better than some. I'd see what happens on the current list if we scale it so that OBW is a midtier 3* (maybe around Punisher level) and Jugs is a midtier 2* (HT or Marvel)

6. Do you have any other suggestions to make it better?

Everyone should rank. Don't make some sort of composite score except PvP and PvE. Allow people to abstain from voting for a character (and make that the default).

udonomefoo

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

I was hoping that more people would provide input, as I thought those threads were considered useful and was trying to improve them.

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't trying to be a Debbie Downer. It's not that I don't think you should do it. I actually enjoy doing my own rankings and get excited to see how the totals come out. I really do think that the perception of the majority is interesting, maybe the "elite rankings" is something that could be done on the side and added as an addendum to the community rankings.

GMadMan040

aesthetocyst wrote:

udonomefoo wrote:

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

I was hoping that more people would provide input, as I thought those threads were considered useful and was trying to improve them.

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't trying to be a Debbie Downer. It's not that I don't think you should do it. I actually enjoy doing my own rankings and get excited to see how the totals come out. I really do think that the perception of the majority is interesting, maybe the "elite rankings" is something that could be done on the side and added as an addendum to the community rankings.

In chatting with Ebola before this was brought up. But not in the sense of limiting input to a select group. Rather as adding a version of MPQ "demographics" to the ballot. So then, if the sample was large enough, the ratings could be broken down into ratings according to various types of respondents ... PvE players, PvP players, casual players, competitve players, F2Pers, spenders, etc, etc. IF the sample is large enough, it could be very enlightening...and more useful, as players could find feedback tailored to their own play type.

Two questions at the top of the survey -

What level player are you?
1*, 2*, 2-3* Transition, 3*, 3-4* Transition, 4*, Jamie Madrox

How would you describe your engagement style with MPQ?
Very Casual, Casual, Regular, Daily, Have No Job & Play MPQ All Day, Super Secret Uber Elite LINE Club

Feel free to insert whatever style questions and answers fit here, but sorting data with these two concepts in play could be helpful, yes?

Malcrof

1. 1-10 works well.
2. personal experience with the chars, both using them and fighting them are how i determine.
3. See Below
4. The website idea is great, this will allow for better data parsing, and allow you to give more detailed results based on the players, see some of my suggestions!
5. See Below




Best 1-2 Punch is a great category, i can think of things like SRCA and Hood (cd tiles + intimidation), Countdown to What + Surgical Strike, etc..... (even though i know fistbuster will win this category, i am sure there are others out there)

add some just for fun categories.

Most Annoying to fight/use
Best/Worst Animations
Best 3* for a transitioner to cover first.. this will actually be helpful to the new people.
Best soft caps for PVE/PVP
Most useful team ups. (outside of whales)


Also.. not centered around characters, but the players, i think this will be kind of an important one to parse data with.. when they take the poll - How long have you been playing (0-50 days, 50-100, 100-200, 200-300, 300-400, etc.... or however you want to break it down) This way you can get an idea of who is taking the polls.. this can have quite a big impact on the outcome of the poll itself.

Favorite Story Mode
Favorite PVP (off season ones, doing season and 4* ones you don't really have a choice in participation, and not everyone can even partake well)

If i think of more i will post them.. but these are the kind of things i personally would like to know. Will help loads of folks in building.

Punisher5784

Malcrof wrote:

add some just for fun categories.

Most Annoying to fight/use
Best/Worst Animations
Best 3* for a transitioner to cover first.. this will actually be helpful to the new people.
Best soft caps for PVE/PVP
Most useful team ups. (outside of whales)

Why didn't you suggest these for my character polls? lol

Malcrof

Punisher5784 wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

add some just for fun categories.

Most Annoying to fight/use
Best/Worst Animations
Best 3* for a transitioner to cover first.. this will actually be helpful to the new people.
Best soft caps for PVE/PVP
Most useful team ups. (outside of whales)

Why didn't you suggest these for my character polls? lol

I just finished my coffee, brain is sharper now.. i lose all cognitive thought when it wears off... lol.

MPQ_Daywalker

I like these two questions:

GMadMan040 wrote:

What level player are you?
1*, 2*, 2-3* Transition, 3*, 3-4* Transition, 4*, Jamie Madrox

How would you describe your engagement style with MPQ?
Very Casual, Casual, Regular, Daily, Have No Job & Play MPQ All Day, Super Secret Uber Elite LINE Club

Combined with Malcrof's:

Malcrof wrote:

How long have you been playing (0-50 days, 50-100, 100-200, 200-300, 300-400, etc.... or however you want to break it down)

That gives everyone a few ways to break down the responses, and the community knows what range of player is participating in the survey.

Logging into a website to vote sounds good to me, but I think the site should allow you to vote anonymously without logging in, for those people who wish to do so.

And I think multiple people said this already, but giving an option to not rank or vote on a character would be good, just because newer players may have no experience with some characters.