D3 please change PVE into pure progressive rewards

throvolos

There's a big difference between your original post and all of the PvP comments in this thread. You really should try to keep your PvE complaints separate from your PvP complaints, because it detracts from the advice you're likely to receive.

Before I begin, I agree that PvE rankings are unfair. I cannot compete in PvE because I can only play a couple of hours a day. I don't care that OTHER people are getting rewards, I care that I have absolutely zero chance to get them due to my schedule.

Without trying you can get a free 3 in PvE. If they're going to give away free 4 in PvE you can expect it will be challenging, because (I suspect) 4 's are their big money-makers. In which case, you'll be just as unhappy about the progression reward difficulties.

1) Getting a high score in PvE is completely independent of getting a high score in PvP.
--The challenges and strategies that apply to PvE in no way carry over to PvP, except on how to deal with powers of certain characters you might face.
--If you find PvP too frustrating (I certainly do on occasions), stick to PvE, get your free three-star, and keep leveling up your heroes. It is a very slow process without spending money, but it is totally doable (I Know this because neither of my kids have spent money on the game).

2) Developing a good PvE team and a good PvP team do not have to be mutually exclusive. However, you might want a broad set of heroes to compete in either.
--You could benefit from a broad set in PvP because different heroes will be boosted each event (however, some pairings are OP and do not necessarily require you to have more than just two heroes to do decently well in PvP, every time. I know this because I use a pair of Heroes every PvP event and I do between 600-1000, every event. My low scores are typically a result of a) unwillingness to deal with the frustrations of ridiculously lucky AI and quitting early or b) getting hit while unshielded too much). More heroes gives you more flexibility.
--You could benefit from a broad set of hereoes in PvE because the red nodes are three random heroes (one 2*, one 3*, one 4*), and not having all three of those heroes can detract from your overall point gain.

3) I find it much harder to hit top 25 in PvE than PvP, because I can only play a couple of hours a day. I'm extremely happy to have the chance to get a 4*, even if I'm ready to throw my tablet across the room sometimes.

4) You ARE seriously gimping yourself by keeping your heroes at lvl 88. Listen to the 100% majority.

5) My kids like PvE because you have guaranteed rewards, even if you can't compete with the top 100 (or even top 1000). PvP, however, is performance-based, and while they are in lower brackets, my son took 3rd place once with three 2*'s at lvl 40.

While your main idea has merit, your complaints do not. Your biggest hurdle to success in either event is (if others are correct about your roster) your lvl 88 heroes. Level them up!



is better than all other colors. Because its , duh.

slidecage

aesthetocyst wrote:

barrok wrote:

If you play enough, getting a 4 star for an essential isn't that difficult. You got the PVP 1000 reward, you got the single PVE reward and the alliance PVE reward. The problem is getting the essential if you missed the PVE and PVP portion. Then you are boned

Not so much. You can make top 50 without an essential. Been there.

with major grinding and good luck getting top 50 if you dont have the Reward before the next state event.. If you dont have daredevil love to see how many make top 50 (though its the only event cause of the freaking waves) though at least now its top 100 so it might be easier.

i was keeping them at 88 until i got enough ISO to level 12 at once so i can have a good team to pick from. what is getting very close.

slidecage

OJSP wrote:

I had been observing the forum for quite sometime and I only recently joined for the PPH competition..

I initially didn't want to post on this thread as many people have brought up a lot of good points, but the thread kept getting bumped again that it's starting to intrigue me. I considered a PM, but I think maybe my comments might encourage other forum users too in general.

OP, I enjoy most of your posts. Some of them are filled with good points. I appreciate your activity at getting updates for PvE brackets although I don't use it. I have also been fortunate enough to observe your progress in the events, because we normally share the same bracket (slice 2) and with your well documented method of playing these events, I could see you on the leaderboards occasionally. I suppose I have you to thank as one of them who helped making my decision to collect all characters but not necessarily level them up immediately when possible.

However, as someone said before, you seem to spend too much time in the forum.. maybe 3 minutes it takes to read a thread and respond is enough to win a match? You could've gained enough iso to max several characters by now.. I know I haven't joined the forum until now, in fear of doing so.. I now have made several posts in such a short time and played less.. luckily it's the off season.

I think if I recall correctly, we probably started playing MPQ around the same time.. I joined mid season 8. The difference is probably I'm completely FTP and in a casual alliance (only recently reaching t250)... I just play a lot..

I was in a similar position 2 seasons ago, where I kept all my 2 and 3*s at 94 until I have enough iso to level them up. Part of my reason was the fear of being matched against unbeatable rosters in PvPs. All changed since last season, when they change the reward structures in SHIELD Simulator. I decided to level several 3*s to 120 and I got to 2000. Now I have 7 maxed 3*s, 1 level 114 with 9 covers and all others with at least 10 covers on level 120 (I have all 3*s). The dream of getting 1000 is now fulfilled (achieved it several times this season actually..) and the fear of facing maxed FistBusters is pretty much gone now... ThingXPool is a different puzzle to solve..

The message I'm trying to convey is already mentioned several times before, in this thread and many others.. so I won't repeat all of them.. but I do have a burning question since I noticed it a long time ago.. why level 88? Is it due to Chinese belief (I am one myself, so I am familiar with what it represents)? 86 I can understand, as it's the max level for a 12 covered 2*s.. 88?

Maybe if you just max level the 2*s you can actually start placing higher in PvPs, gaining more iso, deterring attacks from maxed 2*s and under covered 3*s..? Your aim to level your 12 characters might be faster?

I hope I didn't sound to hard on you.. I wanted to encourage you to keep playing. I hope you achieve your aim soon and start to find more enjoyment in the game too. If possible, please answer my burning question above

Best wishes.

pushing your people from 94 to 120 did it boost up the AI that much.... sitting on 500,000 ISO and just waiting to start boosting people higher but hate to boost it too high where it just kills me in PVP...... Also last 5 or 6 season i been jumping late into PVP (last few hours) where i can get up to 700 maybe once i finish maxxing out my 3 stars cover wise i will boost a ton of them up, BUT i just could never see using 4 stars that much and like i said got to wonder how many people will be willing to keep up with the 2000 HP per month needed pace.


my main point was people who have max cover wise 3 stars and are having a major hard time getting the 4 stars, How long do you really think they will keep playing when there is mostly nothing to play for , your not getting any new covers and the ones you are are worthless cause you have them max.

and whats up with the low chances of getting 3 stars in tokens when you earn them in deadpool just by doing 2 matches sort of stupid there


yea spend too much time on the fourm but then have nothing to do for those 8 hours waiting for my PVE to reset or health packs to come back

again thanks to everyone for the advice. just saying 2 4 stars per month and your force to hold all of these others cause you never know who is going to be needed in PVE is just starting to get to me. Maybe in another season or two i may just do pure PVP

GrumpySmurf1002

slidecage wrote:

my main point was people who have max cover wise 3 stars and are having a major hard time getting the 4 stars, How long do you really think they will keep playing when there is mostly nothing to play for , your not getting any new covers and the ones you are are worthless cause you have them max.

In your case where you're intentionally gimping your roster, well yeah, you're gonna have a hard time progressing to the 4* step when you haven't done the 3* step.

And the tokens are what they are because again, there's a whole level of player where all those 2* in the Heroic/Event tokens are helping their progression.

Bowgentle

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

slidecage wrote:

my main point was people who have max cover wise 3 stars and are having a major hard time getting the 4 stars, How long do you really think they will keep playing when there is mostly nothing to play for , your not getting any new covers and the ones you are are worthless cause you have them max.

In your case where you're intentionally gimping your roster, well yeah, you're gonna have a hard time progressing to the 4* step when you haven't done the 3* step.

And the tokens are what they are because again, there's a whole level of player where all those 2* in the Heroic/Event tokens are helping their progression.

Not all his 3*s are fully covered, nor optimally specced.
5/5/3 LT, 5/5/3 Hulk, 4/5/3 Cyke, 5/3/5 KK, etc.

So he DOES have everything to play for, instead he chooses to complain.

GrumpySmurf1002

Bowgentle wrote:

Not all his 3*s are fully covered, nor optimally specced.

I chose to believe this. Probably my first mistake:

slidecage wrote:

I have been here going on 9 months and have defended more then once how PVE has been run, but now with getting almost every 3 star to fully max

Unknown

My issue with PvE right now is that I am just a casual player, and I dont have time to plan out game play every x number of hours at certain times, so it is hard for me to get the rewards. example, in the current Pve Enemy Of The State I have only 14k points going into the second sub phase. (Yes I have the needed covers for the extra nodes) I cleard the first phase and am working on the second. I am ranked 315th. The top ranked player has 92k points, How can I hope to win a Cyclops cover with this kind of spread. By my figures if I am getting 20k points in 24 hours and the top guy can get 90k in the same time, I can never hope to win a good reward. This in my opinion is what can drive casual game players away.

slidecage

Bowgentle wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

slidecage wrote:

my main point was people who have max cover wise 3 stars and are having a major hard time getting the 4 stars, How long do you really think they will keep playing when there is mostly nothing to play for , your not getting any new covers and the ones you are are worthless cause you have them max.

In your case where you're intentionally gimping your roster, well yeah, you're gonna have a hard time progressing to the 4* step when you haven't done the 3* step.

And the tokens are what they are because again, there's a whole level of player where all those 2* in the Heroic/Event tokens are helping their progression.

Not all his 3*s are fully covered, nor optimally specced.
5/5/3 LT, 5/5/3 Hulk, 4/5/3 Cyke, 5/3/5 KK, etc.

So he DOES have everything to play for, instead he chooses to complain.

whos LT? hulk black are always top 10 so good luck there. Cy will be move to 5/3/5 after this event. KK again good luck getting pinks

My main pt is people who have 3 stars max and have problems getting 4 stars if they are given up on Puting out 3 stars really dont have much to play for anymore.

Malcrof

slidecage wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

slidecage wrote:

my main point was people who have max cover wise 3 stars and are having a major hard time getting the 4 stars, How long do you really think they will keep playing when there is mostly nothing to play for , your not getting any new covers and the ones you are are worthless cause you have them max.

In your case where you're intentionally gimping your roster, well yeah, you're gonna have a hard time progressing to the 4* step when you haven't done the 3* step.

And the tokens are what they are because again, there's a whole level of player where all those 2* in the Heroic/Event tokens are helping their progression.

Not all his 3*s are fully covered, nor optimally specced.
5/5/3 LT, 5/5/3 Hulk, 4/5/3 Cyke, 5/3/5 KK, etc.

So he DOES have everything to play for, instead he chooses to complain.

whos LT? hulk black are always top 10 so good luck there. Cy will be move to 5/3/5 after this event. KK again good luck getting pinks

My main pt is people who have 3 stars max and have problems getting 4 stars if they are given up on Puting out 3 stars really dont have much to play for anymore.

I was getting frustrated, not being able to get 4*'s, outside of winning them in release events.. i took advice from people on the forums and what not, leveled some to 166, many many others to 140.. and can now hit 1k in PVP, and over the course of this past season, my number of 4* covers about doubled.

Level a core to 166, get the big guns to 140 minimum.. this will make PVE and PVP much easier, and 4*'s will come. I was worried about PVE scaling, but honestly.. the fight takes the same amount of time and same number of health packs at 166, as it did when i had soft capped my 3*'s at 120, no difference at all.. just the numbers look bigger, but the fights are exactly the same (you scaled with them).. with the exception of Psylocke, who when boosted over 200 eats these EoTS nodes for lunch, making short work of Wolvie and Gorgon and their ilk.. some chars just scale better..

Get your toons to 140+, you will find you are getting more and more covers much faster.

simonsez

slidecage wrote:

whos LT?

Malcrof

OJSP wrote:

Apologies in advance for the assumptions I am going to make, ..... Your response coincided with the end of sub grind so I forgot that I wanted to share my opinion.. that picture of LT made me smile, recap on the thread and found your post again

^ This.. is why PVE is broken, and nothing else. Having to forsake every other aspect of life in order to get placement, would be the only real valid argument i will accept.

Stax the Foyer

First, the rewards you're looking for are in PvP. You acknowledge that in your post. PvP offers 3 very attainable 4* covers per week for much less effort than is required to win 4* covers in PvE, even during a new PvE release.

Second, you cannot compete in PvP with an intentionally underleveled roster. When you're playing PvE, you likely identify nodes that are better than other nodes in terms of the reward offered for the risk, and focus on those nodes during the final grind. In PvP, your underleveled team is that node.

You have two options:

(1) You can continue focusing on PvE with an underleveled roster, and hope that the PvE reward structure is changed. There's no indication that that's going to be happening.

(2) You can listen to the advice of players who were in your exact situation, and had your exact concerns. They leveled up their roster and found success in PvP. They may not be getting the ranking awards, but those aren't that useful for you anyway. What they are getting is progression rewards which put PvE progression rewards to shame. Those are the rewards you want.

Leveling your roster might make PvE marginally more difficult. That's okay, you're not getting much out of it now anyway. It will, however, make PvP much, much more feasible.

Right now, you're trying to push a car up a hill with your feet, Flintstones-style, while the gas pedal is right over there. You're probably not going to make it up that hill, and it's not going to be fun trying.

Please, push the gas pedal.

Arphaxad

I hope D3 ignores this post.

D3 already provides progression rewards. Playing for ranking rewards is available for those that want to compete for it. If you don't like competing, then don't. Leave PvE alone for those that enjoy playing.

Since eliminating community scaling, PvE has been so much fun. Sure, it's hard to get top rankings, but I enjoy the challenge.

slidecage

Arphaxad wrote:

I hope D3 ignores this post.

D3 already provides progression rewards. Playing for ranking rewards is available for those that want to compete for it. If you don't like competing, then don't. Leave PvE alone for those that enjoy playing.

Since eliminating community scaling, PvE has been so much fun. Sure, it's hard to get top rankings, but I enjoy the challenge.

see if you feel that way after doing a 7 day PVE and loosing your internet hookup on day 6 or 7 wasting 5+ days for nothing

GurlBYE

slidecage wrote:

Arphaxad wrote:

I hope D3 ignores this post.

D3 already provides progression rewards. Playing for ranking rewards is available for those that want to compete for it. If you don't like competing, then don't. Leave PvE alone for those that enjoy playing.

Since eliminating community scaling, PvE has been so much fun. Sure, it's hard to get top rankings, but I enjoy the challenge.

see if you feel that way after doing a 7 day PVE and loosing your internet hookup on day 6 or 7 wasting 5+ days for nothing

I'm sure he still will. The issue is the people on the forums are the ones who place well.

They kinda have the 'I went through it so should you' as opposed to seeing the progressive rewards would benefit them as well.

Of course you find competing fun when you win, even more so from the fact that winning more lets you spend less money on roster space, less to no money on covers and gives a healthy chunk of iso to boot.

Things like having required 4 stars to compete for 3 star placement covers during 4 and 7 day events is entirely senseless from any-standpoint of someone just looking at the situation neutrally.

Unknown

I do wish they'd add a 4 star progression reward for the essential, and just have it's threshold ridiculously high. Like, hitting all 3 clears optimally every day of the event high. Or just slightly above that.

That's mostly because I'm at a point where I wind up missing out on higher placement not due to lack of effort, but lack of the 4 star essential for the extra node. It's seriously the difference between a top 100 and top 20 finish the last few events Ive run, and it doesn't help that it just seems to be a cycle of Nick Fury, Professor X and the older 4 star characters. Carnage has yet to pop back up after his release, and neither has any of the other new 4 stars.

GurlBYE

Haetron wrote:

I do wish they'd add a 4 star progression reward for the essential, and just have it's threshold ridiculously high. Like, hitting all 3 clears optimally every day of the event high. Or just slightly above that.

That's mostly because I'm at a point where I wind up missing out on higher placement not due to lack of effort, but lack of the 4 star essential for the extra node. It's seriously the difference between a top 100 and top 20 finish the last few events Ive run, and it doesn't help that it just seems to be a cycle of Nick Fury, Professor X and the older 4 star characters. Carnage has yet to pop back up after his release, and neither has any of the other new 4 stars.

I don't think it should be ridiculously high.

Every pve has a required 4 star.

even the pves with new 4 stars that are already grindfests.
it should be 20% of whatever the already highest score is. That way a person isn't entirely out of the running. That 4 star node every 8 hours seriously adds up over time.
getting it end of event is a day late dollar short, especially when most events don't reward 4 stars (well lately they have...)

I'm in the same boat. I luckily drew elektra and I'm afraid to risk selling any 4 stars bad or good because I've no idea if they'll be needed for an event.

Last event had nick fury for cyclops.
I didn't get nick fury till after the event.

Malcrof

Here is the huge point everyone seems to be missing.

PVE (Story Mode) is already pure progression. The rewards for T150 etc.. are nothing but a bonus.

You get tokens, iso, HP, and a 3* cover, just for participating.. you don't even need the essentials or a fleshed out roster to get them, top progression award is easy enough for anyone.

What you all seem to want, is the bonus stuff given to you for free.

i agree that a 4* progression is inevitable, but seriously.. to take away the bonus for hard work is ridiculous.

firethorne

In the end, I'm against competition in story mode. I'd love to see more gauntlet style content. But, I think most in this camp are willing to compromise. The biggest problem is for the 3* to 4* transition. Right now PvP is far more reasonable about 4* rewards. Sure, you'll have to buy shields to do your hops, but it is achievable, and doesn't take an inordinate amount of time.

That is simply not the case for story. You have to treat the game like a full time job for placing on a 4* release event, and after that, only the first and second place finishers will ever see the card again. I can beat all the nodes and get squat because someone beat all the nodes 20 times. It is completely demoralizing, and I simply don't play story mode anymore. It just isn't worth it.

So, while I'd really love to see the full time job aspect dumped, making the top progression reward a 4* would go a long way to help. It would at least make events worth playing. As it is now, they aren't worth playing, because I simply can't devote the hours of play required to place.

XandorXerxes

Malcrof wrote:

i agree that a 4* progression is inevitable, but seriously.. to take away the bonus for hard work is ridiculous.

So is requiring a player to play one particular mode (PVP) to get 4*s, or penalizing a player for spending hours on the game but not quite enough hours.

How many hours of effort does it take to get a 4* in PVP? 20 minutes to breeze up to 500 points, another 40 to get to 8-900, and another hour to queue and hop up to 1000? Let's pretend that it takes an extra 4 hours on top of that to account for the struggling player.

If a player full-clears a node in half an hour, twice a day for 7 days, doesn't he or she deserve the same reward for the same effort (struggling pvper: 6 hours, grinding pve-er: 7 hours)? The current structure doesn't provide that. It encourages jumping in at the last minute, grinding to death, and hoping for the best.

I don't have a problem leaving some placement rewards - those just need to not be the ONLY rewards with value.

I think it would be more interesting if all gameplay-affecting rewards were progression, with rewards for placement being cosmetic trophy type rewards (different animations for powers, skin colors on characters, costumes on characters, etc) that you can't otherwise purchase (though monetizing some of those animations / skins / etc would of course be in D3's interests).