Locked vault bad idea for D3

Renaldoo

My Juggernaut vault is garbage. I want 1 4-star in it. I was looking forward to grinding those tokens and buying my daily deal token. Now, I will completely ignore it. How was this in their best interests? Seriously, I want to spend my hp, but I'm not going to throw it away.

Geauxbotz

Even though I purchased the daily deal on the first day, my vault reset this morning. I didn't pay 400 hp either. I figured it would have been locked.

Punisher5784

The Vault looks like a great idea on paper but the reality is that it's all smoke and mirrors. It's just an added animation of opening tokens. I would prefer they return to the traditional token. I understand why they did it for DDQ but testing it in other formats needs work.

Unknown

You don't have at least 1 4* in it?

Check if there's an update you missed.

IceIX

Punisher5784 wrote:

The Vault looks like a great idea on paper but the reality is that it's all smoke and mirrors. It's just an added animation of opening tokens. I would prefer they return to the traditional token. I understand why they did it for DDQ but testing it in other formats needs work.

Honest question, where are the smoke and/or mirrors? The Vault has exactly zero hidden items to it. There's no weighting to what comes out of it, you can see everything inside at all times.

CaptainFreaky

IceIX wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:

The Vault looks like a great idea on paper but the reality is that it's all smoke and mirrors. It's just an added animation of opening tokens. I would prefer they return to the traditional token. I understand why they did it for DDQ but testing it in other formats needs work.

Honest question, where are the smoke and/or mirrors? The Vault has exactly zero hidden items to it. There's no weighting to what comes out of it, you can see everything inside at all times.

I agree with IceIX that the vault itself is not smoke and mirrors - 80 items (or 300 or whatever) with (we can only assume) an equal chance at each item. I think perhaps the poster is referring to all the animation that's layered when you trade in a token. The animation stuff IS all smoke and mirrors and kind of time consuming - luckily I just mash the screen until it quickly resolves. I feel bad sometimes for the poor chap who had to code all that animation as I skip it each time. Sometimes.

morph3us

IceIX wrote:

Honest question, where are the smoke and/or mirrors? The Vault has exactly zero hidden items to it. There's no weighting to what comes out of it, you can see everything inside at all times.

As mentioned, it's the animation that gives you the illusion of control over what drops. We very frequently see posts from people here trying to give tips on how you magically double tap to control what drop you get from the Vault. An "Open Token" button on the side to skip the animation might help dispel that myth just a touch.

Personally, I like the Vault as a mechanic. I think the odds do generally favour the player (and it favours Demi as well, in terms of encouraging sales). I do think it's a valid point though - sometimes the RNG gifts us with a Vault that has nothing of interest at all. A free reset (maybe only valid until you pull your first token from it) would go a long way to fixing this.

IceIX

morph3us wrote:

As mentioned, it's the animation that gives you the illusion of control over what drops. We very frequently see posts from people here trying to give tips on how you magically double tap to control what drop you get from the Vault. An "Open Token" button on the side to skip the animation might help dispel that myth just a touch.

Personally, I like the Vault as a mechanic. I think the odds do generally favour the player (and it favours Demi as well, in terms of encouraging sales). I do think it's a valid point though - sometimes the RNG gifts us with a Vault that has nothing of interest at all. A free reset (maybe only valid until you pull your first token from it) would go a long way to fixing this.

Ahh, that. I suppose that can qualify, sort of.

And yes, Vault resets and the like are being discussed as part of overall Vault upgrades. Still early days for the feature itself. Not sure if unlimited (or even limited to X retries) would really help though, since unlimited resets would just cause players to spend 6 years per Vault drawing up the perfect one and causing our servers to generate 500 million sets per player which it then throws out. Anything less than unlimited would just make people angry when "even after 5 resets, I still got ****. D3 planned that purposefully! Wargleblarge" even though it was RNGeezus that took a dislike in actuality. Doesn't help anyone really.

(Not an announcement) More likely that we'd do something more along the lines of "You get Deadpool cover since it's Deadpool Versus in there, now select the other X 4*s you want in here" or something, which would neatly sidestep that for the most part.

CaptainFreaky

IceIX wrote:

morph3us wrote:

As mentioned, it's the animation that gives you the illusion of control over what drops. We very frequently see posts from people here trying to give tips on how you magically double tap to control what drop you get from the Vault. An "Open Token" button on the side to skip the animation might help dispel that myth just a touch.

Personally, I like the Vault as a mechanic. I think the odds do generally favour the player (and it favours Demi as well, in terms of encouraging sales). I do think it's a valid point though - sometimes the RNG gifts us with a Vault that has nothing of interest at all. A free reset (maybe only valid until you pull your first token from it) would go a long way to fixing this.

Ahh, that. I suppose that can qualify, sort of.

And yes, Vault resets and the like are being discussed as part of overall Vault upgrades. Still early days for the feature itself. Not sure if unlimited (or even limited to X retries) would really help though, since unlimited resets would just cause players to spend 6 years per Vault drawing up the perfect one and causing our servers to generate 500 million sets per player which it then throws out. Anything less than unlimited would just make people angry when "even after 5 resets, I still got ****. D3 planned that purposefully! Wargleblarge" even though it was RNGeezus that took a dislike in actuality. Doesn't help anyone really.

(Not an announcement) More likely that we'd do something more along the lines of "You get Deadpool cover since it's Deadpool Versus in there, now select the other X 4*s you want in here" or something, which would neatly sidestep that for the most part.

Yes - having a bit more control over the 4* in each vault would be nice. Even nicer would be to have a MINIMUM of 1 of each color cover of each featured 3* in the DDQ vault. When it was Iron Fist week, I was seriously ticked off that of the 5 covers on offer in the vault, none of them were purple. It would be trivial to have 1 of each color for certain, then allow the other 2 of each 3* featured be random. In my example. I really had very little incentive to spend the tokens I had specifically hoarded for that week because the color I wanted wasn't present. I'd like to think I'd have at least a 1 in 300 chance of getting the color I need during a featured character vault week in DDQ.

OneenO

Why not just have a weekly vault instead of event specific vaults?

Mawtful

IceIX wrote:

Ahh, that. I suppose that can qualify, sort of.

And yes, Vault resets and the like are being discussed as part of overall Vault upgrades. Still early days for the feature itself. Not sure if unlimited (or even limited to X retries) would really help though, since unlimited resets would just cause players to spend 6 years per Vault drawing up the perfect one and causing our servers to generate 500 million sets per player which it then throws out. Anything less than unlimited would just make people angry when "even after 5 resets, I still got ****. D3 planned that purposefully! Wargleblarge" even though it was RNGeezus that took a dislike in actuality. Doesn't help anyone really.

(Not an announcement) More likely that we'd do something more along the lines of "You get Deadpool cover since it's Deadpool Versus in there, now select the other X 4*s you want in here" or something, which would neatly sidestep that for the most part.

Don't you say a bad word about RNG! I won't hear it!
RNG is the lifeblood that sustains us; honestly, I think more of the game should be determined by RNG. Just think of the possibilities:

• Tokens: Maybe you'll redeem a token, maybe you'll buy a silver token, maybe you'll buy a 40 pack.
• Match: Maybe you'll make the match you swiped, maybe you'll actually make a different match, maybe you'll fire a power instead, maybe you'll retreat from battle.
• Roster: Maybe you'll level up a random character, maybe you'll sell a random character, maybe you'll buy a roster slot.

Cymmina

CaptainFreaky wrote:

Yes - having a bit more control over the 4* in each vault would be nice. Even nicer would be to have a MINIMUM of 1 of each color cover of each featured 3* in the DDQ vault. When it was Iron Fist week, I was seriously ticked off that of the 5 covers on offer in the vault, none of them were purple. It would be trivial to have 1 of each color for certain, then allow the other 2 of each 3* featured be random. In my example. I really had very little incentive to spend the tokens I had specifically hoarded for that week because the color I wanted wasn't present. I'd like to think I'd have at least a 1 in 300 chance of getting the color I need during a featured character vault week in DDQ.

Doesn't the vault still reset every time you restart the client up until you spend a token? Honestly, I would be tickled if I could get a vault where certain colors I am full on aren't in there (looking at you, Steve Rogers Yellow). It's a time consuming PITA, but at least it is an option.

Lloyd Christmas

I don't have a juggernaut vault yet some of my alliance mates do. At first I thought it was that I hadn't downloaded the update but I still don't have the vault. I'm not complaining, I just thought it was strange.

Lee T

Cymmina wrote:

CaptainFreaky wrote:

Yes - having a bit more control over the 4* in each vault would be nice. Even nicer would be to have a MINIMUM of 1 of each color cover of each featured 3* in the DDQ vault. When it was Iron Fist week, I was seriously ticked off that of the 5 covers on offer in the vault, none of them were purple. It would be trivial to have 1 of each color for certain, then allow the other 2 of each 3* featured be random. In my example. I really had very little incentive to spend the tokens I had specifically hoarded for that week because the color I wanted wasn't present. I'd like to think I'd have at least a 1 in 300 chance of getting the color I need during a featured character vault week in DDQ.

Doesn't the vault still reset every time you restart the client up until you spend a token? Honestly, I would be tickled if I could get a vault where certain colors I am full on aren't in there (looking at you, Steve Rogers Yellow). It's a time consuming PITA, but at least it is an option.

It used to, now it depends on your device. Since it disappeared for some user I will suppose it is unintended and they're probably working on making the vault reset disappear altogether.

Daiches

I'm 7/7 on 2 star pulls in Juggernaut Vault. So basically it doesn't matter what 4 stars are in it.

Omegablue14

My main problem with the vault is why would I use HP to buy extra tokens besides the ones I earn in an event? Unless I am missing a cover which is rare I already have one cover of the 4 star I need. Why would I buy tokens when I can just save my HP and buy a cover directly from my roster where my odds are 100%?

Nightglider1

Omegablue14 wrote:

My main problem with the vault is why would I use HP to buy extra tokens besides the ones I earn in an event? Unless I am missing a cover which is rare I already have one cover of the 4 star I need. Why would I buy tokens when I can just save my HP and buy a cover directly from my roster where my odds are 100%?

Some people like to gamble, I suppose.

Punisher5784

IceIX wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:
The Vault looks like a great idea on paper but the reality is that it's all smoke and mirrors. It's just an added animation of opening tokens. I would prefer they return to the traditional token. I understand why they did it for DDQ but testing it in other formats needs work.

IceIX wrote:

Honest question, where are the smoke and/or mirrors? The Vault has exactly zero hidden items to it. There's no weighting to what comes out of it, you can see everything inside at all times.

morph3us wrote:

As mentioned, it's the animation that gives you the illusion of control over what drops. We very frequently see posts from people here trying to give tips on how you magically double tap to control what drop you get from the Vault. An "Open Token" button on the side to skip the animation might help dispel that myth just a touch.

Personally, I like the Vault as a mechanic. I think the odds do generally favour the player (and it favours Demi as well, in terms of encouraging sales). I do think it's a valid point though - sometimes the RNG gifts us with a Vault that has nothing of interest at all. A free reset (maybe only valid until you pull your first token from it) would go a long way to fixing this.

Ahh, that. I suppose that can qualify, sort of.

And yes, Vault resets and the like are being discussed as part of overall Vault upgrades. Still early days for the feature itself. Not sure if unlimited (or even limited to X retries) would really help though, since unlimited resets would just cause players to spend 6 years per Vault drawing up the perfect one and causing our servers to generate 500 million sets per player which it then throws out. Anything less than unlimited would just make people angry when "even after 5 resets, I still got ****. D3 planned that purposefully! Wargleblarge" even though it was RNGeezus that took a dislike in actuality. Doesn't help anyone really.

(Not an announcement) More likely that we'd do something more along the lines of "You get Deadpool cover since it's Deadpool Versus in there, now select the other X 4*s you want in here" or something, which would neatly sidestep that for the most part.

morph3us addressed my concern nicely, yes it's the animation that gives the "smoke and mirrors" illustration. I feel as if we always had a "vault" but it was in the background. I can timely press the vault to stop on IronFist the animation still a bit and I receive a 2*, meanwhile if I click on Ares, the animation stops right there, no movement.

I would really love to see some 2*'s replaced with a "Free Spin," I think it would make it alittle more interesting. Or as morph3us stated, give us the option to turn off the Vault Animation, let us open the tokens as normal but what we pull is checked off on the Vault itself. Besides the fact the Animation takes time, I think it's frustrating players more than it intended.

I don't hate he Vault, it just needs some tweaking, especially if this is potentially replacing normal tokens at some point. I look forward to see what you guys come up with.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

morph3us wrote:

As mentioned, it's the animation that gives you the illusion of control over what drops. We very frequently see posts from people here trying to give tips on how you magically double tap to control what drop you get from the Vault. An "Open Token" button on the side to skip the animation might help dispel that myth just a touch.

Personally, I like the Vault as a mechanic. I think the odds do generally favour the player (and it favours Demi as well, in terms of encouraging sales). I do think it's a valid point though - sometimes the RNG gifts us with a Vault that has nothing of interest at all. A free reset (maybe only valid until you pull your first token from it) would go a long way to fixing this.

Ahh, that. I suppose that can qualify, sort of.

And yes, Vault resets and the like are being discussed as part of overall Vault upgrades. Still early days for the feature itself. Not sure if unlimited (or even limited to X retries) would really help though, since unlimited resets would just cause players to spend 6 years per Vault drawing up the perfect one and causing our servers to generate 500 million sets per player which it then throws out. Anything less than unlimited would just make people angry when "even after 5 resets, I still got ****. D3 planned that purposefully! Wargleblarge" even though it was RNGeezus that took a dislike in actuality. Doesn't help anyone really.

(Not an announcement) More likely that we'd do something more along the lines of "You get Deadpool cover since it's Deadpool Versus in there, now select the other X 4*s you want in here" or something, which would neatly sidestep that for the most part.

It should have at least a first time sale price like all the other items for purchase, like maybe make the first one free and then charge for each additional or something.

Honu141

I don't mind the vault animation. It just adds to the suspense.

My biggest beef with it is the lack of available covers, particularly the 4* covers. Yes, your odds of obtaining what's in the vault is greater. But you're limited to what's there (unless you pay for a reset which is another conversation entirely). At least with token packs, you could conceivably pull all 3 covers of any character.

So for me, I'm less likely to spend money on the vault than cover packs. Besides, I seem to be really good at pulling 2* covers. I would probably have to pull all 297 (or 76) rewards first before I even get a 4* cover.

JVReal

I believe the vault should also limit how many of 1 character are in there. I literally have 17 2* Wolverines in my vault of 80 covers... that's just about 1/4 of the vault being 1 character, and one I do not need. Why would I spend HP when I know that the most likely cover I will get is 2* Wolverine?