New Shielding/Retal Mechanic

drcassino

As of today, we're getting retal nodes in PVP while shielded. On the up side, these are potential hits for once we're unshielded (though since most players only hit teams with more points than they have, the values of the retal nodes are generally pretty low, and expose you to a counter-retaliation, which will hurt even more). On the downside, it makes it impossible to reliably build up three nodes in your queue to hit quickly once you unshield, which is normal practice among high-level players, at least, as it minimizes the time spent looking for opponents once unshielded. No idea if this is a bug or a feature, but my sense is that high scoring PVP players are generally unhappy with it. Thoughts?

IceIX edit: Commented on the bug here.

GrumpySmurf1002

Edit: Move along....nothing to see here.

drcassino

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

It's server lag. Server is late reporting a loss (losses) that already happened before you shielded.

Those are some slow servers - I just got a retal 3 1/2 hours after shielding. Certainly possible: time will tell. Anyone else noticing this, or is it just me?

Scoregasms

Others I know are reporting the same thing, I haven't climbed to shield yet myself but if this is true, I have no idea why they would implement this? Some think it's intentional, I sure hope not, that should have been in the Patch Notes then if that was the case.

Bowgentle

Scoregasms wrote:

Others I know are reporting the same thing, I haven't climbed to shield yet myself but if this is true, I have no idea why they would implement this? Some think it's intentional, I sure hope not, that should have been in the Patch Notes then if that was the case.

Lots of stuff_should_ be in the patch notes.
Rarely stuff that affects high level PVP is, though.

Scoregasms

Bowgentle wrote:

Scoregasms wrote:

Others I know are reporting the same thing, I haven't climbed to shield yet myself but if this is true, I have no idea why they would implement this? Some think it's intentional, I sure hope not, that should have been in the Patch Notes then if that was the case.

Lots of stuff_should_ be in the patch notes.
Rarely stuff that affects high level PVP is, though.

Agreed, but this impacts all levels of PVP unfortunately, those qing up some high points nodes to just get that 1k/1.3K progression and now get it replaced with a low level retal. Just seems like an odd mechanic, just hope it's a bug and not intentional.

GrumpySmurf1002

drcassino wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

It's server lag. Server is late reporting a loss (losses) that already happened before you shielded.

Those are some slow servers - I just got a retal 3 1/2 hours after shielding. Certainly possible: time will tell. Anyone else noticing this, or is it just me?

Interesting....You lost points or just got a retaliation?

drcassino

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

drcassino wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

It's server lag. Server is late reporting a loss (losses) that already happened before you shielded.

Those are some slow servers - I just got a retal 3 1/2 hours after shielding. Certainly possible: time will tell. Anyone else noticing this, or is it just me?

Interesting....You lost points or just got a retaliation?

No lost points, just the retal.

drcassino

Scoregasms wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

Scoregasms wrote:

Others I know are reporting the same thing, I haven't climbed to shield yet myself but if this is true, I have no idea why they would implement this? Some think it's intentional, I sure hope not, that should have been in the Patch Notes then if that was the case.

Lots of stuff_should_ be in the patch notes.
Rarely stuff that affects high level PVP is, though.

Agreed, but this impacts all levels of PVP unfortunately, those qing up some high points nodes to just get that 1k/1.3K progression and now get it replaced with a low level retal. Just seems like an odd mechanic, just hope it's a bug and not intentional.

It would almost be worth it if shielded players could be queued up, as it would give the chance for more of those sweet, sweet, one point defensive wins, but I haven't seen any sign of that happening.

babinro

I haven't confirmed this personally but I've heard others confirm this change on LINE. In a way it makes sense...if someone attacks you (shielded or not) you'd want a chance to retaliate, right?

From a game mechanics standpoint it just serves to hurt EVERYONE. The nature of the game makes it so you don't take hits from people whose scores are close to yours. Meaning your retals are going to be horrible value compared to any targets you were able to find either through tactical communication or just randomly pressing skip periodically.

Meanwhile the changes should be simple enough for alliances and truces to still work around in order to succeed. There's just an added layer of communication/confirmation required before hitting people.

I fail to see how this is an improvement in any way.

I'm firmly in the 'unhappy' group of players here.

drcassino

babinro wrote:

I haven't confirmed this personally but I've heard others confirm this change on LINE. In a way it makes sense...if someone attacks you (shielded or not) you'd want a chance to retaliate, right?

From a game mechanics standpoint it just serves to hurt EVERYONE. The nature of the game makes it so you don't take hits from people whose scores are close to yours. Meaning your retals are going to be horrible value compared to any targets you were able to find either through tactical communication or just randomly pressing skip periodically.

Meanwhile the changes should be simple enough for alliances and truces to still work around in order to succeed. There's just an added layer of communication/confirmation required before hitting people.

I fail to see how this is an improvement in any way.

I'm firmly in the 'unhappy' group of players here.

This is why I think it may be intentional: the devs are on record as disapproving of out of game communication, and this hinders one of the main benefits of LINE chats.

udonomefoo

Pardon my ignorance, but once you skip those retals aren't the fights you had queued up still waiting under there?

Aestheocyst did an update so it makes sense to me that his got wiped, but normally don't they stay there?

TheOncomingStorm

drcassino wrote:

As of today, we're getting retal nodes in PVP while shielded. On the up side, these are potential hits for once we're unshielded (though since most players only hit teams with more points than they have, the values of the retal nodes are generally pretty low, and expose you to a counter-retaliation, which will hurt even more). On the downside, it makes it impossible to reliably build up three nodes in your queue to hit quickly once you unshield, which is normal practice among high-level players, at least, as it minimizes the time spent looking for opponents once unshielded. No idea if this is a bug or a feature, but my sense is that high scoring PVP players are generally unhappy with it. Thoughts?

First, Mister Sinister strikes again.

Second, smart high end players don't care. They're the only ones not affected by this change. Basically, this change says if you have Line and a battle chat, here is your welcome mat.

For everyone else, not sure why they have a 1300 progressive again because now, good luck hitting it.

franckynight

I wont get into details here but more than ever communicating and coordinating hops will be necessary.. Btw sniping will be way more vicious now than we can erase the qs the target had and trade them with low points retal.. I dont know if it was intended but i see a more efficient way to protect high end players and cut off the leechers.. Thank You d3..

Unknown

drcassino wrote:

This is why I think it may be intentional: the devs are on record as disapproving of out of game communication, and this hinders one of the main benefits of LINE chats.

Haven't had the chance to check this yet. But if what you're saying is true, then this is the opposite. It will make people want to use outside communication. For people that don't communicate and rely on checking queues often for points, will now be wiped as you said. Where as if your queues were wiped, you can easily queue up a target again for points shortly before you remove shield by using communication.

This hurts those that hate LINE/outside, than those that do.

Terrible change, might as well just make people that are shielded discoverable, so that they take the risk of being hit when they decide to remove shield. A lot more fair than this system that favors communication to compete efficiently.

Might be time to invest in another game.

drcassino

franckynight wrote:

I wont get into details here but more than ever communicating and coordinating hops will be necessary.. Btw sniping will be way more vicious now than we can erase the qs the target had and trade them with low points retal.. I dont know if it was intended but i see a more efficient way to protect high end players and cut off the leechers.. Thank You d3..

Hadn't thought about it, but it could be useful for alliances. I queue up my lower-scoring teammate before they're shielded, hit them (even for low points) during my hop, and give them the chance to retal (for big points) while I'm shielded.

See, D3? You just made out of game coordination more valuable, and gave T10 alliances more opportunities to run up their scores. So can we get rid of it, please?

SnowcaTT

I like this new system - it means I went out for three attacks, and now will have the same three retribution nodes upcoming for next time. HOWEVER - I would occasionally like to not lose a Q, and that would be the definition of a hard ask to request that someone doesn't counter when that high point node is now automatically sitting there for them.

Previously the MMR only ever let you see the same three people over and over and this didn't matter. Shield SIM can have five nodes - maybe it's time for PVP to have five nodes as well?

Moon Roach

Wouldn't it be possible to have retaliations put in just one queue, perhaps the top one? Then the other 2 queues would not be affected.

Bowgentle

Can we please get confirmation from a red name whether this is intended behaviour or not?

Cone on guys, you had 3 hours to come up with a diplomatic answer, it's time.

Scoregasms

Bowgentle wrote:

Can we please get confirmation from a red name whether this is intended behaviour or not?

Cone on guys, you had 3 hours to come up with a diplomatic answer, it's time.

Agreed, they are all over the UI threads, but not this one (and we're being civil about it too!! lol)? It's fine if you don't know when a fix is coming (if it is indeed a bug), but a confirmation if this was intended or not would be appreciated.

ngoni

Net effect is people are going to need more shields to get the same score which was probably intentional on D3's part.