Why we need more 4*s

simonsez

Square wrote:

In 4* land, I have five of them covered (4hor, XF, Fury, Hulkbuster and Elektra). Prof X, Kingpin, and Carnage around 9, Ant-Man, Thing and Jean Grey around 3. I want to finish PX and KP quite a bit. I can't quickly do it, but they'll be very playable in the next 2-3 months.

So why in hell do we "need" more 4*s when you are still months away from completing the 4*s you have that are "almost" done, that you're dying to finish? Just thing how much faster you'd be able to finish them if Deadpool, Falcap, Thing, Jean Grey and AntMan weren't all part of the rotation.

slidecage

qkumbredood wrote:

I don't mean to assume that I speak for everybody here, but I feel that the general irritation about the 4* releases has more to do with the fact that covers are much rarer to come by. Since there's fewer covers available, it takes a lot more time to fully cover a 4* or even get them to a usable level. Then, with the rapid influx of new 4* characters, players will naturally feel like it's somewhat pointless to pursue them - 4* characters are coming out far more quickly than they can be feasibly covered.

Additionally, there's the fact that the past few (4? 5? I haven't been keeping count) releases have all been 4* characters, with very little down time between them. This creates the impression that the devs are focusing all their attention on expanding the "endgame," and thereby disregarding the majority of newer players. Especially when the transition is such a long process, it's natural to feel slighted when it feels like you're being ignored for the amount of effort you're putting in. While I understand that 3* releases won't provide much motivation for players with mostly complete rosters, these are the small minority of all players; for most players, getting a new 4* to a usable state is just a pipe dream. Since it has no bearing on them, it seems natural that they would be upset that all of the devs' efforts are concentrated on parts of the game that don't impact them, especially given the lack of lower-tiered releases in the interim.

Just my two cents, anywho. I don't claim to represent any other party, cannot be held accountable in a court of law, yadda yadda yadda.

4 stars can be covered quickly but you have to invest the time
50 HP per day from PVE (1500 ) or 100 (3000)
400 per month from the PVE end event thing
400 per month from the PVE end of month allaince
300 per week from PVP (1200) another 150 from alliance (450)

so if you hit top 50 daily in PVE min. 4000 Hp per month what is almost 2 covers
if you hit top 10 5500 a month and that does not count the covers you can win from PVP and season... (yes im joking)

really though they pushed 4 stars cause look at the numbers i just gave you, there is no reason at all to Spend money on this game BUYING COVERS For 3 stars when you can earn enough every month to buy 3 or more FREE.

i mean just playing the month of July i was able to get 6400 HP and 200K iso.. i mean

optimus2861

slidecage wrote:

4 stars can be covered quickly but you have to invest the time
50 HP per day from PVE (1500 ) or 100 (3000)
400 per month from the PVE end event thing
400 per month from the PVE end of month allaince
300 per week from PVP (1200) another 150 from alliance (450)

so if you hit top 50 daily in PVE min. 4000 Hp per month what is almost 2 covers
if you hit top 10 5500 a month and that does not count the covers you can win from PVP and season... (yes im joking)

really though they pushed 4 stars cause look at the numbers i just gave you, there is no reason at all to Spend money on this game BUYING COVERS For 3 stars when you can earn enough every month to buy 3 or more FREE.

i mean just playing the month of July i was able to get 6400 HP and 200K iso.. i mean

This post positively reeks of "Well I can hit every PvE node on refresh at perfect times, and grind down all essentials to 1, and I can score 800, 1000 in every PvP and 1300 when I want to, so why can't you?"

My answer: job + Wife + Baby.

Anyway. Yeah, this game is starting to take on that "treadmill to nowhere" feel. The first 5* character is probably <6 months away. At that point, I'll quit. I won't watch this game become another Star Wars: Force Collection.

Square

wymtime wrote:

With 4* being the new norm it will start taking longer and longer to build up a new character. If you are consistently hitting 1300 by letting the shield cool downs rule your life awesome. For everyone else they need more ways to win 4* so it does not take 6 months to win 13 covers of one character. Max covering a new character should take 3-4 months not 6-9

4*s aren't the norm. They are at the high end. 3-4 months (or less) for a 3* is totally fair. 4*s are (supposedly) Legendary, and not so easy to max. To me, that seems fair. With the five weekly 3*s being boosted, it seems that the people working up to 4*s aren't being left out in the cold in terms of competition.

For me, having a solid alliance to coordinate with let's me get to 1300 when I want to without giving my life over to MPQ, though I do strategically play if convenient. I have way more issue with 7 day PVE. Being successful in that is a massive suck on your life, and I probably won't be competing for Deadpool outside the top 100.

Malcrof

a 4* DDQ type thing has to be coming soon, especially now that we have a 4* deadpool! They have to release enough 4*'s to make a real rotation though, so keep them coming! Can't wait to see the wonders of a 4* Vault!!!!

Square

simonsez wrote:

Square wrote:

In 4* land, I have five of them covered (4hor, XF, Fury, Hulkbuster and Elektra). Prof X, Kingpin, and Carnage around 9, Ant-Man, Thing and Jean Grey around 3. I want to finish PX and KP quite a bit. I can't quickly do it, but they'll be very playable in the next 2-3 months.

So why in hell do we "need" more 4*s when you are still months away from completing the 4*s you have that are "almost" done, that you're dying to finish? Just thing how much faster you'd be able to finish them if Deadpool, Falcap, Thing, Jean Grey and AntMan weren't all part of the rotation.

Because I will be collecting all of them at the same time, and when Prof X is finished, Ant-Man will be almost done. I'm not dying to do it, because I am an adult, and this is a game. It keeps me busy on the subway, and when I'm bored at home. When I have every character fully maxed, I quit. And a load of other people quit. Get it? When they stop making high level characters, there is no point in playing. Do you understand? Either get it or quit. Just **** is a waste of your time. But ultimately, it's just a game. You enjoy it or you don't.

Oh, and you didn't quote the part of my original post that addressed your question. Why is it you didn't include it? Because this is a forum on the Internet.

Square wrote:

Am I excited for Deadpool to come into the rotation to make the wait for Prof X that much longer? Nope. I would like to see releases be monthly at most.

Square

optimus2861 wrote:

This post positively reeks of "Well I can hit every PvE node on refresh at perfect times, and grind down all essentials to 1, and I can score 800, 1000 in every PvP and 1300 when I want to, so why can't you?"

My answer: job + Wife + Baby.

Anyway. Yeah, this game is starting to take on that "treadmill to nowhere" feel. The first 5* character is probably <6 months away. At that point, I'll quit. I won't watch this game become another Star Wars: Force Collection.

I have a wife and child (age 6), and, to be honest, I play more than my wife likes. All games are a treadmill to nowhere though. I've played Zelda and Mass Effect, and Civilisation (the greatest time eater I ever encountered) etc etc, but the end of the games aren't really that satisfying. The play is the main point. If you enjoy playing it, it's fine, if it makes you unhappy, then it's time to quit. For me though, as far as iPhone games go, this has been the most satisfying, and seeing my roster grow and grow, it's been fun. Although I got hooked on this with PVE, skipping a number of PVEs in recent months has made the game a lot more fun.

GurlBYE

Square wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

No no no.

It's money dude.

i can guarantee they don't care about you.

technically the only reason they are adding the characters is because they hope the very small few in the current end game( the ones who threw money to get there) will continue to throw money to stay there.


The biggest reason I can prove your argument of them targeting your enjoyment of the game being false is this: There isn't a single piece of content in the game that you can only complete with 4 stars. In fact the content scales to your roster. That should be a giant flashing light.

You have to be pretty gullible to think they are adding these so that the minority of the playerbase thats in endgame and doesn't pay money is why they are using developing dollars to add new content.

___

additionally, creating more 4 stars doesn't add an endgame it just drags 4 down making a shiny new pedestal for 5 stars.

Dude, you're obnoxious. It's a game. If it's fun, people play and people pay. Content at the high end helps extend the life and remove the concept of endgame. Which is a dumb concept in a game like this.

Did anybody claim the company is a charity? Of course not. They want to make money. What's the best way to make money? Provide an interesting experience. I pay. Not for covers, but I pay every few months. They deserve it. They've given me countless hours of content. Hmm, sounds like an ideal situation. They work, they entertain me, I pay for that service. And many other people do. A very small minority blows cash to max a Jean Grey at once. Sounds a lot more like a long term business model than a short term one. Now, as I get closer to the top, they are expanding the area so that I have more to do.

Dude

Instead of a long post.

I beseech you.

Tell me where I said finding ways to get more revenue is a BAD thing?

You literally typed.

Some high level players pay, but a lot do not. But the game needs to grow out the 4*s for the sake of high level players.

Duh developers need money.
That's a no brainer.
Adding more 4 stars few people can get their hands on to even purchase more of isn't a good argument for making more money. It's an attempt. It's not at all reasonable or sustainable.

Every post you have is so self serving without evidence of these wealth of other high end players seeking out more characters to complete the same content with.
You truly are arguing that the game needs more new end game characters instead of introducing high end content as an incentive for vested playes to play.

Dauthi

Bowgentle wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

They are creating an end game. Players who haven't gotten there yet don't understand it, but today I pulled a 4* only to find out it is Thor who I have covered. This happens all the time. This situation will happen less as more 4*s are added, and I will actually start gaining progress again instead of stale nothingness.

You can't seriously believe that they're bringing out more 4* characters to create an end game.

Everything they've done in the past year shows they don't _want_ an end game.

All they're doing is creating another transition, where they dangle the army of shiny 4*s in front of the established 4* vets, who have to chase the new covers. All the while losing ground, because in the two weeks where we get 6x2 covers from PVP (1K and 1.3K progression) there has been another 4* released.

And guess what happens after enough players have most 4*s covered?
Yup, 5* tier arrives.

This game is a never-ending treadmill, and an end game is the last thing on the devs mind - because that would mean people could stop chasing the new shiny and be content with that they have.
Which was the situation when Thorverine 2.0 was around, and the reason they got hit with the nerf bat.

In online video games "end game" doesn't literally mean the "end of the game," online games don't want that. It means creating something for players to do, who have accomplished almost everything. In MMORPG's this is typically upping the level cap and creating new areas/dungeons. When those are all accomplished, they do it again.

MPQ will attempt to do the same any way it can. There can't be a ceiling otherwise players would simply leave after "beating the game."

Square wrote:

All games are a treadmill to nowhere though. I've played Zelda and Mass Effect, and Civilisation (the greatest time eater I ever encountered) etc etc, but the end of the games aren't really that satisfying. The play is the main point. If you enjoy playing it, it's fine, if it makes you unhappy, then it's time to quit. For me though, as far as iPhone games go, this has been the most satisfying, and seeing my roster grow and grow, it's been fun. Although I got hooked on this with PVE, skipping a number of PVEs in recent months has made the game a lot more fun.

This. Games are meant for entertainment, and if they are accomplishing that end then that is all that matters.

simonsez wrote:

Square wrote:

In 4* land, I have five of them covered (4hor, XF, Fury, Hulkbuster and Elektra). Prof X, Kingpin, and Carnage around 9, Ant-Man, Thing and Jean Grey around 3. I want to finish PX and KP quite a bit. I can't quickly do it, but they'll be very playable in the next 2-3 months.

So why in hell do we "need" more 4*s when you are still months away from completing the 4*s you have that are "almost" done, that you're dying to finish? Just thing how much faster you'd be able to finish them if Deadpool, Falcap, Thing, Jean Grey and AntMan weren't all part of the rotation.

Because there needs to be something to do when he finishes them? Being able to obtain a 4* ever 3 days has really sped things up. As I mentioned earlier, it is very discouraging when tokens mean nothing to you anymore except when they flash. If all those new 4*s weren't in the rotation my chances of getting what I need would be insanely low. It's nice to get a sense of progression.

Polares

4 are being released too fast I think everybody agrees on that. It is impossible to cover them in a reasonable time without paying. Rotation now is going to be too long, we are going to need an eternity to cover the new 4s. With the next 4 Deadpool we will have as many 4s as 2s, but with the new Falcon-Captain America we are gonna have more 4s now! They have released more 4s in two months than in the first six months of the year!

One 4 every 5 weeks was probably the best ratio, but now we have one every two weeks. That is not sustainable. Even the whales I dont know if are going to be spending more than 100$ every two weeks. It is really crazy.

And yes, they are creating and endgame, but not the one they planned. This just makes me wanna quit. I know I cant cover the new 4 for months so why bother? I wanted to spend money in ProfX but now, why spend money into him if there is going to be a new and better new 4 every two weeks? The new shinny is just going to be shinny for two weeks (and remember a 4 is not a 3, they dont cost the same not in HP or ISO, so it cant be compared to when 3 were released too every two weeks).

They have made me feel tired of this game again...

PS: Instead of creating a 4 every two weeks they should have created more content, more events, and some not competitive ...

Pylgrim

I think it is very clear that increased ways of earning 4*s are coming. This whole process is mirroring identically the process at the beginning of the game's life when 3*s were being added all the time and people made exactly these comments. Then, little by little, as the roster of possible 3*s to win and have kept growing, they kept adding them into the economy. By the time DDQ hit, it's possible for a veteran player to grab 10-11 covers of a new 3* within a couple weeks of it being released and completing it is a matter of inevitability.

Now that 4*s are the norm expect a big, steady increase in the flow. Note that this has to be done in a calculated way since you don't want to just dump them in the game among all the other covers, as they are close to useless to 1* and 2* players. Can we just trust the devs to come up with a good way of doing so in the same way the did with the 3*s?

scottee

If they stopped releasing new 4* characters, I would quit. If they released a new 4* every week, I would not.

I think the ideal new content they should be working on is new PVE stories. I'm a little unsure of what's in the way of doing a new one every month. You only really need dialogue and new artwork for a map. The nodes/points/enemies/prizes should all be pretty easy.

But seeing as that doesn't look like it's going to happen, yes, I'm one that wants them to keep releasing new characters. Otherwise I'll have nothing to work toward. And if I have nothing to work toward, I'll quit. Bullseye and Vision aren't exactly motivating me to work hard to find their covers.

simonsez

Square wrote:

Oh, and you didn't quote the part of my original post that addressed your question. Why is it you didn't include it? Because this is a forum on the Internet.

Square wrote:

Am I excited for Deadpool to come into the rotation to make the wait for Prof X that much longer? Nope. I would like to see releases be monthly at most.

Or maybe because it completely contradicts the entirety of the rest of your post. People complain 4*s are coming out too fast; you post a wall of text responding to their complaint, telling us why we need more 4*s; and then button the whole thing with that "monthly at most' comment. If that's how you feel, and since we ARE getting them way more often than monthly, what you really should have done with these complainers, is simply say, "Yes, you guys are right, they ARE coming out too fast"

Dauthi

Polares wrote:

4 are being released too fast I think everybody agrees on that. It is impossible to cover them in a reasonable time without paying. Rotation now is going to be too long, we are going to need an eternity to cover the new 4s. With the next 4 Deadpool we will have as many 4s as 2s, but with the new Falcon-Captain America we are gonna have more 4s now! They have released more 4s in two months than in the first six months of the year!

The only thing I am not fine with is the PVE grind every 2 weeks for the new 4*s. Other than that I welcome increased chances at a 4* I don't have. Granted it will take longer to fully cover them, but the alternative is less progress due to a pool of 4*s I already have.

I am positive they will introduce more ways to get 4*s, as they did for 3*s after the influx of those occurred.

Pylgrim

How's two 4*s per month too much? Is exactly the same situation as 3*s circa a year ago, with more or less the same availability. In other words, it's poised to improve. I really don't understand how people don't figure that /three/ weeks between a character release would be a slow slog of sameness, the only motivation to keep going being the acquisition of Iso.

Adrock1020

The funny thing about this whole argument is that it's not about "do we need more 4-stars" it's really "we absolutely positively without a doubt don't need more 3-stars". We have plenty of variety on the 3-star level. There's certainly no point in adding more to the middle tier. They have to add more to the high end. I really don't understand why people are even complaining about this.

jimstarooney

did 3* kill the game?nope it enhanced it.its natural evolution that we are goin the 4*route the only problem i have is the insane amount of iso it takes to lvl up a 4 star,which hopefully the devs will address in the near future.

wymtime

Square wrote:

wymtime wrote:

With 4* being the new norm it will start taking longer and longer to build up a new character. If you are consistently hitting 1300 by letting the shield cool downs rule your life awesome. For everyone else they need more ways to win 4* so it does not take 6 months to win 13 covers of one character. Max covering a new character should take 3-4 months not 6-9

4*s aren't the norm. They are at the high end. 3-4 months (or less) for a 3* is totally fair. 4*s are (supposedly) Legendary, and not so easy to max. To me, that seems fair. With the five weekly 3*s being boosted, it seems that the people working up to 4*s aren't being left out in the cold in terms of competition.

For me, having a solid alliance to coordinate with let's me get to 1300 when I want to without giving my life over to MPQ, though I do strategically play if convenient. I have way more issue with 7 day PVE. Being successful in that is a massive suck on your life, and I probably won't be competing for Deadpool outside the top 100.

Square I will rephrase for you. 4* are becoming the new norm for released characters. I still feel the devs are shifting the game to 4*. 3* buffs let people compete and get progression rewards, but I can see when 4* are pushed into a featured role in PVP. I also think that is a good thing.
Also on your note about hitting 1300 in PVP. To do so you use strategic alliance hopping and probably 3+ shields to do so. This means you are either spending 500 HP or managing your life around shield cool downs. 500 HP is a fair trade for a 4* since it would cost 2500, but what about getting first place. For Deadpool you are only going for top 100 and one cover and the current rotation of 4* is set in place. That means you will have to get 1st place in an event 3-5 times to build up one cover. With 4* being released every other week how long will it take to win 1st place in a very specific, and competitive PVP? For some it will never happen, and for those willing to spend 1000+ HP they might still fall outside that top spot.
I don't have a problem with 4* being released into the game, I think it is good for the game. What I would like to see is more ways players can win 4* and earn 4*. If that is in a weekly DPDQ or PVP, or a story mode. In the December Q & A they specificly stated they wanted 3-4* transition players to have a smoother transition than 4*. As a player who has will have every 3* max covered in 3 days the 4* transition does not feel smoother yet. It is not as bad as it was in Dec, but a smooth transition should have better ways to transition then win PVP hit 1000 & 1300 in PVP.

puppychow

Bowgentle wrote:

This game is a never-ending treadmill, and an end game is the last thing on the devs mind - because that would mean people could stop chasing the new shiny and be content with that they have.
Which was the situation when Thorverine 2.0 was around, and the reason they got hit with the nerf bat.

Totally agree w/ this. Thoreverine 2.0 WAS the end-game, as far as players were concerned, because new characters released prior to their nerfs weren't able to compete with this combo. Thus players who had maxed gt/xf were safely able to ignore new character releases and avoid buying covers/packs.

D3 had to change that dynamic if it was going to bring in revenue and survive as a company.

Personally, I prefer a release schedule of one 4 per month, rather than two. I spent two dozen hours grinding for all three jean grey covers, and expect a similar time commitment for upcoming deadpool event. I don't know how long I can continue that pace, and it's possible I won't push as hard for the unnamed 4 being released later this month.

puppychow

Polares wrote:

PS: Instead of creating a 4 every two weeks they should have created more content, more events, and some not competitive ...

I think the noncompetitive antman event is a model for releasing new 4 cover. Allow everyone a shot at the new 4 via a gauntlet like event. If players find that their rosters aren't good enough to get the new cover, they will be incentivized to improve---via new slots, more covers, leveling, etc.