Battle Of The Bads

Malcrof

aesthetocyst wrote:

Here is my personal reject list, reject as in not worth a roster spot:

**** Carnage
**** Devil Dinosaur
**** Elektra
**** Star-Lord
*** Beast
*** Doctor Octopus
*** Psylocke
*** Quicksilver
*** Sentry
* Black Widow
* Hawkeye
* Storm

... not that these are all BAD, just, as a 3* player, slowly moving to 4*, have to make choices.

I see I agree with the OP on a few, but also disagree on several. 3* Marvel is pretty awesome. Not top tier, but a solid team member. 3* Bullseye ... haven't decided he's good yet, but he isn't awful.

GSBW doesn't belong on ANYONE's 'bad' list!

Looks like you rostered Yelena! We found 1!!

Nonce Equitaur 2

Sorting according to the May Character rankings, the 3* characters are

01 12/_8/__/__/14/__ - 10200- [goto=thor3]Thor[/goto] (Modern) -- and generator, lots of damage
02 __/__/__/_5/_8/PA - 7650 - [goto=ironfist3]Iron Fist[/goto] (Immortal Weapon) -- generator, good damage
03 13/PA/__/__/__/_6 - 9690 - [goto=lukecage3]Luke Cage[/goto] (Hero For Hire) -- fast , lots of damage
04 15/__/PA/__/__/_9 - 5100 - [goto=thehood3]The Hood[/goto] (Classic) -- excellent drain
05 _9/_8/10/__/__/__ - 8670 - [goto=magneto3]Magneto[/goto] (Classic) -- lots of damage
06 19/11/12/__/__/__ - 9690 - [goto=captainamerica3]Captain America[/goto] (Steve Rogers) -- board control
07 PA/14/__/__/_9/__ - 6800 - [goto=wolverine3]Wolverine[/goto] (Patch) -- strike tile maker, regen
08 __/__/__/10/PA/_8 - 8670 - [goto=blade3]Blade[/goto] (Classic) -- strike tile maker, lots of damage
09 _7/10/__/__/__/13 - 9265 - [goto=cyclops3]Cyclops[/goto] (Uncanny X-Men) -- generator, lots of damage
10 _9/__/_8/__/__/12 - 9690 - [goto=blackpanther3]Black Panther[/goto] (T'Challa) -- excellent nuke
11 __/__/_5/PA/__/PA - 6800 - [goto=daken3]Daken[/goto] (Classic) -- strike tile maker, regen
12 __/__/__/_5/PA/11 - 5950 - [goto=loki3]Loki[/goto] (Dark Reign) -- cascade defense, cheap boardshake, steal special tiles
13 __/__/_9/10/__/12 - 9690 - [goto=doctordoom3]Doctor Doom[/goto] (Classic) -- generator
14 PA/__/__/_8/12/__ - 8670 - [goto=kamalakhan3]Kamala Khan[/goto] (Ms. Marvel) -- generator, excellent nuke
15 __/_6/__/14/__/PA - 8670 - [goto=deadpool3]Deadpool[/goto] (It's Me, Deadpool) -- fast , excellent nuke
16 __/14/__/__/10/PA - 11475- [goto=thehulk3]The Hulk[/goto] (Indestructible) -- great health, his anger can win on defense
17 PA/__/11/__/10/__ - 10710- [goto=rocket3]Rocket and Groot[/goto] (Most Wanted)
18 __/14/__/11/19/__ - 8075 - [goto=blackwidow3]Black Widow[/goto] (Grey Suit) -- and match5 maker, board control
19 PA/__/PA/12/__/__ - 8075 - [goto=falcon3]Falcon[/goto] (Mighty Avengers) -- good support for special tiles
20 __/_8/__/__/_5/10 - 8075 - [goto=humantorch3]Human Torch[/goto] (Classic) -- lots of damage
21 __/__/PA/14/_8/__ - 8670 - [goto=scarletwitch3]Scarlet Witch[/goto] (Wanda Maximoff) -- generator
22 __/_8/_9/10/__/__ - 8670 - [goto=daredevil3]Daredevil[/goto] (Man Without Fear) -- Fast and
23 __/__/10/_8/__/11 - 8075 - [goto=mystique3]Mystique[/goto] (Raven Darkholme) -- excellent board control
24 __/_8/__/__/_8/_7 - 8670 - [goto=thepunisher3]The Punisher[/goto] (Dark Reign)
25 PA/_7/__/__/__/_9 - 9690 - [goto=captainmarvel3]Captain Marvel[/goto] (Modern) -- good against nukers
26 _9/__/__/__/10/_9 - 7565 - [goto=storm3]Storm[/goto] (Mohawk) -- Great against traps
27 __/_9/_9/__/_6/__ - 10710- [goto=shehulk3]She-Hulk[/goto] (Modern) -- Fast, excellent and
28 __/_5/__/__/12/12 - 9690 - [goto=gamora3]Gamora[/goto] (Guardians of the Galaxy) -- Fast , useful
29 __/_8/10/__/__/_6 - 8670 - [goto=psylocke3]Psylocke[/goto] (Classic)
30 _9/__/__/_9/11/__ - 8670 - [goto=squirrelgirl3]Squirrel Girl[/goto] (Unbeatable)
31 _8/11/__/__/__/13 - 10710- [goto=colossus3]Colossus[/goto] (Classic)
32 12/__/_5/PA/__/__ - 8670 - [goto=spiderman3]Spider-Man[/goto] (Classic) -- good support
33 14/13/20/__/__/__ - 9690 - [goto=ironman3]Iron Man[/goto] (Model 40) -- awful
34 _8/11/__/__/12/__ - 10710- [goto=sentry3]Sentry[/goto] (Dark Avengers) -- slow, can do lots of damage
35 __/__/PA/__/10/11 - 8670 - [goto=quicksilver3]Quicksilver[/goto] (Pietro Maximoff) -- great with Prof X
36 11/__/_6/__/_9/__ - 8670 - [goto=beast3]Beast[/goto] (Modern) -- fast , excellent boardshake keeps special tiles
37 __/__/11/__/12/PA - 8670 - [goto=doctoroctopus3]Doctor Octopus[/goto] (Otto Octavius) -- great against tile spammers
38 __/_6/_8/__/14/__ - 10710- [goto=ragnarok3]Ragnarok[/goto] (Dark Avengers) -- weak generator
?? _5/10/_5/__/__/__ - 9690 - [goto=vision3]Vision[/goto] (Android Avenger)
?? __/__/__/_7/11/PA - 7565 - [goto=bullseye3]Bullseye[/goto] (Classic)


A large part of usefulness depends on what colors the character uses. Often, you'll have a team of 2 in mind, and a third character is needed that will be useful. With Prof X and Cyclops, and is needed, and Beast is just plain fantastic.

Bullseye is a good board controller. For getting or setting Match-5s, he's great, so he'd seemingly be good support for Prof X or Jean Grey, but he is , and he thus has awful overlap with the characters he'd help the most. BWGS is in a similar position.

She-Hulk is one of my main characters, especially in extended games. She can erase the enemy AP.

I love using Doc Oct in Storm events. Once Hailstorm goes off, his Manipulate does more damage than anything else in the game.

Unknown

Why people still think the new Beast is bad?

Dr.Octopus could use AP costs adjustments. 11 blue? Make it 9, because despite the damage, it actually can miss a lot of tiles, unless you are like, playing against Storm. Worse: it doesn't affect countdown tiles.
Green needs to be 9 as well.
His black needs to either proc on all special tiles removals (matches, radar sense, falcon, etc) or actually produce the correct number of attack tiles. If i match 3 Daken strike tiles, black only procs once, despite 3 special tiles being destroyed...
Also, for the high costs of his abilities, his health is ridiculously low.

Jam_Adams

man, I love using Doc Oc in PVE goon nodes, and he's one of the first I use. and I always try to pair him with a Strike tile dropper, such as Psylocke, Daken or Wolverine. chaos usually ensues.

Omega Red

Iron man model 40 is the only character I consider "bad" in that everything he does is better done by other toons and he neither covers any niche like the rest of characters in the list. Back when we had only five health packs at max I would use him only when all my other guys were down and I was desperate for some points so I used him as tank.

rawfsu

I have to defend Psylocke in that I use her everyday in my DDQ runs along with Blade and Hulk. Whenever my Blade isn't firing attack tiles, her attack tile(s) helps increase damage on Blade's Keep Enemies Closer, an essential for waves. Her blue can be hit or miss, but when she steals the right color, it's game over with the combination of Blade or Hulk. With Blade, it can mean another AP drain through his , or an additional Keep Enemies Closer on the board. With the Hulk, it can add another Clap or Pound, or multiple of her attack. There are even runs where I can't enough purple for Blade, but plenty of his attack tiles, so her attack ends up subbing in and still being beneficial. GSBW is another one I find questionable. She is WEAK as a tank, but the Sniper Rifle at 5 covers? Game-changer! Imagine her paired with the 4* Deadpool that was just announced? SW/QS/Vision has become my favorite synergy team as well, but I only use them against weak targets since my SW is the highest of the group, sitting at 43.

TLCstormz

Colognoisseur wrote:

I have to agree with over_clocked these so-called "bad" characters suffer from being underleveled and unloved by the people on the forums and Facebook.

As one who has them leveled I can tell you there in not one 3* character that doesn't have a use for me somewhere in MPQ. I'm not talking as meat shield either. I have teams which employ all of them not only effectively but repeatedly.

There is an old saying that when the only tool you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

When you have a more complete toolbox you might find there are some more interesting team compositions besides the ones everyone talks about.

I would encourage people to experiment especially in the early days of shield sim. You have nothing to lose if a team of "bad" characters bite the dust in the first few days. You might have a lot more to gain if you find out you have more than a hammer in your toolbox.

That's nice......and you are a pillar of our community......but, for those who ARE NOT rich, hackers, and Day 700s, a character is justified in getting called "bad if they are not worth leveling.

Would you seriously justify to the Average Joe / Everywoman Edith that Ock, Psy, Rags, Spidey, etc are a GOOD investment??? lol. Especially over characters like LThor, LCap, Kahn, Cyke,,etc?

TLCstormz

Those were clearly just examples, because I didn't want to list the others that have been discussed at length, but my point remains.....versus those OTHER incredible 3*s, you would recommend someone leveling them?

Nonce Equitaur 2

TLCstormz wrote:

Colognoisseur wrote:

As one who has them leveled I can tell you there in not one 3* character that doesn't have a use for me somewhere in MPQ. .

That's nice......and you are a pillar of our community......but, for those who ARE NOT rich, hackers, and Day 700s, a character is justified in getting called "bad if they are not worth leveling.

Would you seriously justify to the Average Joe / Everywoman Edith that Ock, Psy, Rags, Spidey, etc are a GOOD investment??? lol. Especially over characters like LThor, LCap, Kahn, Cyke,,etc?

That's not a fair statement. Some characters are definitely worth more than others. I might suggest roughly this order for 3* characters.

03 13/PA/__/__/__/_6 - 9690 - Luke Cage (Hero For Hire) -- fast , lots of damage
01 12/_8/__/__/14/__ - 10200- Thor (Modern) -- and generator, lots of damage
02 __/__/__/_5/_8/PA - 7650 - Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) -- generator, good damage
09 _7/10/__/__/__/13 - 9265 - Cyclops (Uncanny X-Men) -- generator, lots of damage
06 19/11/12/__/__/__ - 9690 - Captain America (Steve Rogers) -- board control
05 _9/_8/10/__/__/__ - 8670 - Magneto (Classic) -- lots of damage
12 __/__/__/_5/PA/11 - 5950 - Loki (Dark Reign) -- cascade defense, cheap boardshake, steal special tiles
04 15/__/PA/__/__/_9 - 5100 - The Hood (Classic) -- excellent drain
14 PA/__/__/_8/12/__ - 8670 - Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel) -- generator, excellent nuke
27 __/_9/_9/__/_6/__ - 10710- She-Hulk (Modern) -- Fast, excellent and
16 __/14/__/__/10/PA - 11475- The Hulk (Indestructible) -- great health, his anger can win on defense
07 PA/14/__/__/_9/__ - 6800 - Wolverine (Patch) -- strike tile maker, regen
36 11/__/_6/__/_9/__ - 8670 - Beast (Modern) -- fast , excellent boardshake keeps special tiles
22 __/_8/_9/10/__/__ - 8670 - Daredevil (Man Without Fear) -- Fast and
18 __/14/__/11/19/__ - 8075 - Black Widow (Grey Suit) -- and match5 maker, board control
10 _9/__/_8/__/__/12 - 9690 - Black Panther (T'Challa) -- excellent nuke
08 __/__/__/10/PA/_8 - 8670 - Blade (Classic) -- strike tile maker, lots of damage
19 PA/__/PA/12/__/__ - 8075 - Falcon (Mighty Avengers) -- good support for special tiles
11 __/__/_5/PA/__/PA - 6800 - Daken (Classic) -- strike tile maker, regen
21 __/__/PA/14/_8/__ - 8670 - Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff) -- generator
?? __/__/__/_7/11/PA - 7565 - Bullseye (Classic)
13 __/__/_9/10/__/12 - 9690 - Doctor Doom (Classic) -- generator
15 __/_6/__/14/__/PA - 8670 - Deadpool (It's Me, Deadpool) -- fast , excellent nuke
20 __/_8/__/__/_5/10 - 8075 - Human Torch (Classic) -- lots of damage
25 PA/_7/__/__/__/_9 - 9690 - Captain Marvel (Modern) -- good against nukers
26 _9/__/__/__/10/_9 - 7565 - Storm (Mohawk) -- Great against traps
28 __/_5/__/__/12/12 - 9690 - Gamora (Guardians of the Galaxy) -- Fast , useful
32 12/__/_5/PA/__/__ - 8670 - Spider-Man (Classic) -- good support
17 PA/__/11/__/10/__ - 10710- Rocket and Groot (Most Wanted)
34 _8/11/__/__/12/__ - 10710- Sentry (Dark Avengers) -- slow, can do lots of damage
38 __/_6/_8/__/14/__ - 10710- Ragnarok (Dark Avengers) -- weak generator
31 _8/11/__/__/__/13 - 10710- Colossus (Classic)
30 _9/__/__/_9/11/__ - 8670 - Squirrel Girl (Unbeatable)
23 __/__/10/_8/__/11 - 8075 - Mystique (Raven Darkholme) -- excellent board control
24 __/_8/__/__/_8/_7 - 8670 - The Punisher (Dark Reign)
29 __/_8/10/__/__/_6 - 8670 - Psylocke (Classic)
37 __/__/11/__/12/PA - 8670 - Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) -- great against tile spammers
35 __/__/PA/__/10/11 - 8670 - Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff) -- great with Prof X
?? _5/10/_5/__/__/__ - 9690 - Vision (Android Avenger)
33 14/13/20/__/__/__ - 9690 - Iron Man (Model 40) -- awful

The first thing a player needs to figure out is their favorite characters from the ones they can get to a decent level. For example, they might have 2* Storm and 2* Magneto. They need a *yellow* *black*. Luke Cage, Cyclops, Hood, and Black Panther are all fantastic additions to that team. But it wouldn't be worthwhile initially to level up all of them. In the Fist Bump event, lots of people were pairing Luke Cage and Iron Fist. They work great together. and are needed. I saw lots of people adding She-Hulk to that team. She works great with them.

Frequent Last-Character-Standing, but still wins -- Captain America, Luke Cage, Cyclops

Blade, Daken, Falcon is a fantastic and fast team for chewing up low to midlevel goons. But I haven't found them all that useful against higher level teams.

The ones near the bottom are extremely situational. I won't bother with Vision until I see him in PvP. Vision, Punisher, Prof X might be an interesting team with fast skills on 5 colors.

over_clocked

I might have overreacted with Psylocke. She is probably somewhat useful for trivial nodes and those still in 2* > 3* transition.
If you get closer to having all 3*s and nearly all 4*s, Psylocke quickly drops any pretense of ever being useful. The outclassed Punisher looks much better compared to her due to minor board shakeup and the finishing move. I've honestly tried giving her and Falcon more love and consideration. 2* Magneto and 2* Storm are just better for my roster and more fun to play.

Unknown

Blegh... I've never understood why people think Thor is so good.

His red produces a measly 4 yellow tiles; his yellow costs way too much; and the damage for CTS is very meh for 14ap.

His only plus point is that he's self-sufficient in feeding his own colours but hella sloooooooooow!

Vhailorx

Deadpooool wrote:

Blegh... I've never understood why people think Thor is so good.

His red produces a measly 4 yellow tiles; his yellow costs way too much; and the damage for CTS is very meh for 14ap.

His only plus point is that he's self-sufficient in feeding his own colours but hella sloooooooooow!

He is self sufficient, had 10k health more than year ago when that meant an awful lot, and he hit very hard in a pre-health
-shift world. People also knew how to use him from 2* land.

I will concede that the meta has basically passed him by at this point. I only use him boosted (he is very good when boosted) and in pve. He is too slow for PvP play, and there are better options for board control/aoe damage/high health.

But none of that means he is bad. And he is also more than a year old. When he came out he was arguably as good as it got in 3* land.

dkffiv

over_clocked wrote:

I might have overreacted with Psylocke. She is probably somewhat useful for trivial nodes and those still in 2* > 3* transition.
If you get closer to having all 3*s and nearly all 4*s, Psylocke quickly drops any pretense of ever being useful. The outclassed Punisher looks much better compared to her due to minor board shakeup and the finishing move. I've honestly tried giving her and Falcon more love and consideration. 2* Magneto and 2* Storm are just better for my roster and more fun to play.

Pyslocke is one of the best partners for Professor X, 8 or 6 AP generates all 4 special tiles needed for 5 cover purple loving and she covers 3 out of 5 for full rainbow. Before Iron Fist she was one of the best trivial node characters due to her speed.

Deadpooool wrote:

Blegh... I've never understood why people think Thor is so good.

His red produces a measly 4 yellow tiles; his yellow costs way too much; and the damage for CTS is very meh for 14ap.

His only plus point is that he's self-sufficient in feeding his own colours but hella sloooooooooow!

I never liked Thor due to how slow he is. Back when you could still use OBW in PvP that helped but even with Hood he takes forever. If I see a 166 Thor I'm very likely to attack that target because there's a high chance he won't do anything.

Unknown

Vhailorx wrote:

Deadpooool wrote:

Blegh... I've never understood why people think Thor is so good.

His red produces a measly 4 yellow tiles; his yellow costs way too much; and the damage for CTS is very meh for 14ap.

His only plus point is that he's self-sufficient in feeding his own colours but hella sloooooooooow!

He is self sufficient, had 10k health more than year ago when that meant an awful lot, and he got very hard in a pre-health
-shift world. People also knew how to use him from 2* land.

I will concede that the meta has basically passed him by at this point. I only use him boosted (he is very good when boosted) and in pve. He is too slow for PvP play, and there are better options for board control/aoe damage/high health.

But none of that means he is bad. And he is also more than a year old. When he came out he was arguably as good as it for in 3* land.

Notice I said "so" good in my previous post. He's at the top of Nonce's chart fer cryin' out loud!

Unknown

I live and breathe by GSBW. Have you tried her fully covered? She, Luke, and a third (lately 2* Hawkeye) are really effective.

TLCstormz wrote:

Who out bads who? Who is the most bad? Who is the baddest of the baddies? Etc etc etc.

How would you rank the following older "bad" characters :

Doctor Octopus
New Beast
Old Beast
Ragnorak
Psylocke

Also, are any of the following characters as bad as the list above :

Punisher
Gamora
Gray Suit
Daredevil
3*Captain Marvel
3*Iron Man
Sentry

I didn't include the newer characters that people consider bad, but they are the following, correct :

3*Bullseye
Vision
Quicksilver

Lemminkäinen

aesthetocyst wrote:

Here is my personal reject list, reject as in not worth a roster spot:

* Black Widow
* Hawkeye
* Storm

That's a really bizarre list (even adding Yelena). I consider Juggs, Black Widow and Hawkeye the only one-stars worth keeping. Black Widow because her blue at five covers is good stuff to give away to alliance mates asking for team-ups. Hawkeye because he is one of the best characters against Tetris Ultron. And Juggs doesn't need an explanation. I suppose that Balance of Power can use things like Venom and IM35 but I wouldn't keep them for that (there's others you can use there just as well).

wymtime

TLCstormz wrote:

Who out bads who? Who is the most bad? Who is the baddest of the baddies? Etc etc etc.

How would you rank the following older "bad" characters :

Doctor Octopus
New Beast
Old Beast
Ragnorak
Psylocke

Also, are any of the following characters as bad as the list above :

Punisher
Gamora
Gray Suit
Daredevil
3*Captain Marvel
3*Iron Man
Sentry

I didn't include the newer characters that people consider bad, but they are the following, correct :

3*Bullseye
Vision
Quicksilver

The worst characters 3* in the game are Vision, doc Ock, Quicksilver, IM40, Rags. The reality is even if these characters are essential they can be useful with the right roster. They might be annoying and difficult but can be useful.

To other people on this thread the best way to get ahead is to keep all 3* and 4*. If you want to eventually compete for top 25, top 10. Top 5 in PVP don't you think it will be important to have the essential character fully covered?
If you are just interested in PVE don't you want to keep gimping your roster by playing no using the buffed characters? I know a lot of times you can compet and win any node without the buffed characters? Having the deepest roster possible is what helps in he game today. His past PVP I ran Cage with HT and Loki or Hood. HT has been a B-C character on my roster, but buffed he was awesome. Sometimes a little power boost is all it takes to go from good to great.

wymtime

Deadpooool wrote:

Blegh... I've never understood why people think Thor is so good.

His red produces a measly 4 yellow tiles; his yellow costs way too much; and the damage for CTS is very meh for 14ap.

His only plus point is that he's self-sufficient in feeding his own colours but hella sloooooooooow!

I think Thor is over rated as well but the reality is when he hits you with Thunderstrike, then CTS it normally kills one person and does big damage to the other 2. On defense when he hits you you need a health pack. Also when he is essential in PVP his fights take forever and a day because of his health. I prefer Cyclops, Cage, KK, as my nukes since they are faster with other feeders. He is still high up on the list though.

Lemminkäinen

aesthetocyst wrote:

If it wasnt for DDQ I wouldnt keep ANY 1s. They are so cheap to build and roster slots are too precious....especially when you get up to 1000hp a pop.

Hawkeye is the man come Ultron time. I build one for it and sell him after.

Love 1* storm....but once you have cstorm and mohawk....no use.

MBW people keep for stun TUs. Not worth a slot IMO.

IM35 i have a soft spot for.

Juggs and Venom are on DDQ and BoP duty. Based on last BoP....Venom is next to go. Then IM35. Juggs can DDQ by himself!

Theme of the thread is who is bad. Every player makes their choices.

Thank you for the explaining your reasoning. I didn't mean to challenge your choices but I admit I worded it badly. Personally the only one I have is Juggs. But that is solid reasoning - especially on IM35! I mean, after all, we play this to have fun and if you enjoy a character, then that's the best reason for keeping him

over_clocked

dkffiv wrote:

Pyslocke is one of the best partners for Professor X, 8 or 6 AP generates all 4 special tiles needed for 5 cover purple loving and she covers 3 out of 5 for full rainbow. Before Iron Fist she was one of the best trivial node characters due to her speed.

And? Vision, Punisher, Beast are all good with PX too. Besides 5 purple for PX is completely unnecessary unless you like the Falconry aspect more than the crit-making aspect which is understandable but slow and unreliable. GSBW beats Psylocke by a thousand country miles as far as PX's partners go. Being good for trivial nodes is nothing, she doesn't even have passives to accelerate attack unlike Daken/Blade/Fist/Falcon/Ock.
Psylocke's so bad I'd rather have Falcon alongside my Carnage in this Fresh Cut event, and I really, really, really hate Falcon for how useless he is: GSBW/Cap/Hood are simply better at taking out CDs and dishing out non-ant-sized damage.