Best Defensive Teams?

MarvelDestiny

Defense is one of those murky topics that is hard to wrap your brain around. Who hasn't climbed 500+ points in PVP/Shield whouppin' tinykitty all the way and felt comfortable leaving their team as is, not realizing that your team on autopilot is nothing but a sweet 50+ point target? My defense in particular is weak. As an example, I found LThor, GSBW, and Hulk was an awesome team during the last LThor PVE and figured they were strong enough to leave as is after I finished climbing -- boy was I wrong! I was left alone for most of the PVP (I assumed because my team was awesome...) but the last 20 hours of the PVP, I came back to massive losses every time I logged in. Stupid computer.

So, I decided to search the forums for some advice and came back with a big fat zero for any relevant returns. (I could've sworn defense had been discussed at least once or twice in the last year or so...)

Anybody care to share their best defensive teams and/or characters? What do you look for in a character to consider them good defense? How do you weigh the character against the prediction of how the computer will play them...or do you at all? (For example, in my above team I doubt the computer waited for CtS or Sniper Rifle and just slapped out Thunderous Clap every time it had enough green and if Deceptive Tactics was ever fired off I doubt it was to good effect.)

fmftint

Defense is a lie. the only true defense is to shield

Pinko_McFly

I don't know what your levels are like, but in the last day u might be best off with your highest health team out there. But at 500 points its hard to judge.
I personally would like to see points lost based on how your team did defensively against the attacker. Even something simple like 100 percent if they have the whole team left. 66 for 2 left. 33 for 1 player left.

MarvelDestiny

I was just providing 500+ points as an example. By the end of my initial run I was (I think 8th) making me visible to everyone and yet I didn't start getting strafed until the last hours of the PVP 1-1/2 days later. So maybe my team was a good choice until all the big guns decided to make their run and just bowled me over. But in retrospect, that's hard to imagine given what we know about how the computer plays; the logic has gotten better in recent months but it still uses the rng for things like tile placement while firing Defensive Tactics or destroying its own special tiles.

morph3us

I'd agree, there's not really any such thing as defense in this game.

There is a psychological deterrent effect, however, but it's really only applicable up to around 800 points or so (sometimes less than that). Above 800 points, the number of unshielded targets is so low that anyone will take a swing at you, if you're worth enough points.

As such, the "best" deterrent team does vary a fair amount from week to week, depending on buffs, as it is very much contingent upon the premise: is there a softer target than you out there? I'd argue that there are a few components to a good deterrent team, those being:

- There's a reasonable probability of a loss for an attacker. Reasonable doesn't necessarily imply a high percentage chance, but even a 30% chance of loss might be sufficient. I think this is the case with the IF/IMHB teams out there. I know that I'll probably win the match, but a bad cascade will turn it the other way.

- The match is going to be a slow one. Large health pools are important here (IMHB, Thing, 4*Thor etc). Characters like Thing and Cage (if boosted) contribute to this too.

- The ability set in question is hard for the AI to stuff up. You generally want the abilities for the AI to fire off to be lower costed than competing abilities if your team has overlapping colours. You also don't want the abilities to be contingent upon tile placement. The problem with LThor/GSBW/Hulk on defense, is GSBW's purple will just spam tiles randomly, and really only is effective if LThor (by pure chance) manages to get a Thunder Strike off first. In addition, because Thunderous Clap is lower costed than Call the Storm and Sniper Rifle, it's very likely to be used in preference. Any defensive wins you get with that team will be because I've screwed up, and triggered a massive Anger cascade which has stocked the AI up with more than 14 green. Edit: Just re-read your OP, and you've already said all this already

The attacker always has the advantage. He/she can boost, gets first move, and generally is much smarter than the AI.

In the end, you just want to appear to be a harder target than most of the people around you, so they'll hit the skip button.

Moon Roach

Coincidentally, we've been having some discussions on this in the Unholy Outlaw Thread.

I like the idea of not giving the AI a choice in firing powers, and so choosing no more than one active in any colour. Over_clocked says there's no such thing as a defensive team, and she's more than likely right.

Phaserhawk

MarvelDestiny wrote:

Defense is one of those murky topics that is hard to wrap your brain around. Who hasn't climbed 500+ points in PVP/Shield whouppin' tinykitty all the way and felt comfortable leaving their team as is, not realizing that your team on autopilot is nothing but a sweet 50+ point target? My defense in particular is weak. As an example, I found LThor, GSBW, and Hulk was an awesome team during the last LThor PVE and figured they were strong enough to leave as is after I finished climbing -- boy was I wrong! I was left alone for most of the PVP (I assumed because my team was awesome...) but the last 20 hours of the PVP, I came back to massive losses every time I logged in. Stupid computer.

So, I decided to search the forums for some advice and came back with a big fat zero for any relevant returns. (I could've sworn defense had been discussed at least once or twice in the last year or so...)

Anybody care to share their best defensive teams and/or characters? What do you look for in a character to consider them good defense? How do you weigh the character against the prediction of how the computer will play them...or do you at all? (For example, in my above team I doubt the computer waited for CtS or Sniper Rifle and just slapped out Thunderous Clap every time it had enough green and if Deceptive Tactics was ever fired off I doubt it was to good effect.)

There are no good defensive teams. The only good defense is to be worth no points. Yes you can have deterrents. These help you from some boosting underdeveloped roster from attempting, but for players with solid 3* and 4* rosters, nothing you can run will keep people from hitting you if you're worth 70

Unknown

It seems that any of the hard hitters are enough to deter attack, especially when they have massive hp.

That said.. What is it that determines what team plays on defense for you? Your last fight won in versus? Last fight won in any part of game? Team you queue up without starting the fight in versus?

Thanks in advance, forum wont let me post a new topic =P

Dayv

Gauche wrote:

That said.. What is it that determines what team plays on defense for you? Your last fight won in versus?

It's the last team you won with in that specific versus event, unless the player is retaliating against your attack, in which case it's the exact team you beat them with. Playing a different team in the Iron Fury event won't change your defensive team in the Hood event, for example.

CrookedKnight

I think the idea that there's no such thing as an effective defensive team misses the point a bit. Yes, you have to accept at the outset that no team will stop everyone from attacking you, or make it even particularly difficult for high-level PvP players to stomp you. If you're looking for a way to reach 900 points and just sit there unshielded, stop looking because no team in the world can make that happen. But as long as you're planning to win fights quickly and then shield, then a good defensive team can help you do that. Even if you're only making 3 out of every 10 possible opponents hit the "skip" button, those skips give you that much more time to finish your climb before somebody's likely to knock your points back down -- and when you do get hit, it'll be less likely to be multiple losses at once, which is way harder to come back from than one at a time. And, of course, a team that slows down the fight for your opponent will also mean more time for you to win your own fights before losses start rolling in. Obviously all this will start to mean less and less as you reach higher and higher scores, both because people won't skip a 70-point target as readily and because at that point you're going to be visible mainly to high-level players who can steamroll any team you put out. But if you're just looking to reach 1000, that's still firmly in the range where defense makes a difference.

Malcrof

Before we say "no such thing as a defensive team" has anyone beat that maxed Jean Grey/Hood/Hulkbuster yet? and i don't mean the ones who were recommended whaling it.

Unknown

Malcrof wrote:

Before we say "no such thing as a defensive team" has anyone beat that maxed Jean Grey/Hood/Hulkbuster yet? and i don't mean the ones who were recommended whaling it.

I can't state names on the forums, but there was someone in my bracket with a maxed Jean/Hood/HulkBuster. He was worth points so I attacked him with hood/fistbuster. Stunned myself once from IF's purple, but his attack tile was still ticking on jean during the stun, still took out hood first to avoid him stealing. I didn't use IF's purple again until Jean was out of the fight, and matched black manually while saving up red. He was unable to use any powers since my hood was stealing AP from him, and by the time I was ready to use HB's black, I had enough red (+9 from using black) already to one shot Jean (also strike tile was still ticking every turn on her for good damage, and I think I had some HB's attack tiles which boosted that damage by a lot). It wasn't easy but it isn't impossible even though Jean was a counter. I think she would be better grouped with Thing so that you must go through Thing, before you can down her.

Also, the fact that the AI isn't smart enough to match dangerous tiles such as Attack/Strike/Defensive, makes it difficult to have any team "defend" well, even if you had the perfect team composition.

Malcrof

the only surefire defensive team, is the one that gets you the most skips. Any team can be beaten, but what you want, is a team not worth the hassle.

Unknown

The thing is, points are the determining factor, and then team comp when skipping nodes. If a team counters me or I know I can't beat that team, but they give me 60 points, I would still fight them especially when a lost costs me less than 5 points, and a win would be a huge increase.

No teams would get skipped if they are worth points, even if you had 3x 270 jugs.

Stax the Foyer

Best defensive team is Juggs/Ares/Grenadier, level 395 if possible.

kalex716

I skip people all the time based on team composition alone while grinding pvp in the mid point ranges. I don't have a 4 star roster, strictly 3 star.

It really all depends on who is boosted, but more often than not I would say its IF teams, IMHB teams, sometimes I just hate fighting CMags too, and Hulk still deserves an honorable mention, though he isn't nearly as scary as he used to be.

I think it depends on which type of player you are, but in the mid ranges if i can find softer targets and get 25- 30 points a rip, i'm taking them down every time over a 50+ monster of a team.

Here is some fun little anecdotal evi I want to share for you guys. I joined the Hood PVP kinda late, no real plans to push it hard and i get bracketed off into something easy. It ended last night and I take 5th place with a player score of 803. I ran a maxed team of Hood, Hulk, and Luke Cage. No shields. I got attacked ZERO times in the last 8 hours of the event (maybe once or twice the night before). If I get attacked even once in the last 20 mins, I probably dont place in top 5.

Did I just get lucky, and no one really had a chance to take a good lick at me over 650 points? Or did people in the mid ranges not really want to rumble with my team?

Interesting to think about.

**Edit I also wanted to note, that I do also check level ranges and eyeball HP values. People slipping their lower lvl 4 stars in are not fooling me, it usually makes me take a closer look and try and punish.

Unknown

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Best defensive team is Juggs/Ares/Grenadier, level 395 if possible.

I'd skip that one.

MarvelDestiny

kalex716 wrote:

I skip people all the time based on team composition alone while grinding pvp in the mid point ranges. I don't have a 4 star roster, strictly 3 star.

It really all depends on who is boosted, but more often than not I would say its IF teams, IMHB teams, sometimes I just hate fighting CMags too, and Hulk still deserves an honorable mention, though he isn't nearly as scary as he used to be.

I think it depends on which type of player you are, but in the mid ranges if i can find softer targets and get 25- 30 points a rip, i'm taking them down every time over a 50+ monster of a team.

...

...

**Edit I also wanted to note, that I do also check level ranges and eyeball HP values. People slipping their lower lvl 4 stars in are not fooling me, it usually makes me take a closer look and try and punish.

This is pretty much exactly how I choose my targets too. ...Apparently my defense doesn't suck; y'all do for hitting me. I'm gonna haf'ta start a list for future reference instead of just skipping past those red, overpowered, steroidic pins.


I appreciate everyone's feedback. Most of this I had intuited (bet you can't say that three times fast). Intimidating, high hp teams combined with weekly goat sacrifices to rngesus is what I'm hearing. The one thing I hadn't thought of was incorporating as many passives as possible into a defensive team -- thanks Moon Roach.

How about the reverse? Aside from squishy characters are there any characters you'd never use on a defensive team?

Oh, and one last question: anybody know where I can get some goats?

Quebbster

I remember a while ago... before weekly boosts were introduced I think... in a Gamora (?) PvP. I was shielded and in reach of 1000 points with a single game. I start a game during the last hour, get beaten badly, curse a bit to myself and re-shield.
Then the defensive wins start rolling in. I think I must have gotten a dozen or so, and they easily bumped me up past 1000 points. Pretty neat.
The defensive team I was using that time was Gamora, Classic Magneto and Loki. I guess I was looking like a soft target but my opponents underestimates those three.
You shouldn't try to rely on defensive wins to climb though.

Malcrof

If i am climbing, and if the points are worth it, i skip no-one. In shield sim, the only team i skip regularly is Hood/Psylocke/Kamala . Cheap skills and constant heals, with AP denial, makes it a long drawn out match, and honestly, not worth the time, ever.. always need 3 health packs when it is over, and sometimes takes upwards of 7-10 minutes. The AI will never use hood's black over Psylockes, and on the rare occasion it does, it is because i let them get enough blue for Psy to cast her ap steal. Actives on Yellow, Black, Blue, Red, Purple, and Green... with heal and steal as passives... ugh.

Wonko33

If we could only write 5 "if then " rules for our defensive teams,

ex: if lthor is alive, don't use this stupid green IF power . etc




Then we would have defense