A Few Months Later

MarcusGraves

raisinbman wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

I really find myself missing the AP drain that was on surgical strike, it saved me a good number of times and I would love to see it back on XF's green ability with like a base drain of 2, 3 at rank 3 and 5 at rank 5 and of course just a little bit more damage.

they've been taking away AP tricks, not adding them.

Only way you'll see Xforce with AP tricks is with a time machine.

I should have said AP destroy, not drain like when you take their AP, like what gorgon's debilitating slash has where it destroys 5 random AP.

Raffoon

MarcusGraves wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

I really find myself missing the AP drain that was on surgical strike, it saved me a good number of times and I would love to see it back on XF's green ability with like a base drain of 2, 3 at rank 3 and 5 at rank 5 and of course just a little bit more damage.

they've been taking away AP tricks, not adding them.

Only way you'll see Xforce with AP tricks is with a time machine.

I should have said AP destroy, not drain like when you take their AP, like what gorgon's debilitating slash has where it destroys 5 random AP.

That would be an interesting change. It might actually put his green on par with other 4* abilities

Unknown

Adding 800-1000 damage to XF green would feel really nice. I believe I'd be satisfied with him at that point. He wouldn't feel as insane as some of the newer 4 stars, but at least he might feel like a good investment.

Making XF green do additional damage when it destroys special tiles (enemy and friendly) would be extremely cool as well -- but I'd want that in addition to the base damage increase, not in place of it. Otherwise I think it would be way too situational to be useful.

Raffoon

So here we are a bit further out. There will be 16 different 4*s once Sam Wilson is released.

I do like the turn that the game has taken recently. The new 4*s look fun, although it would be nice to actually have more than 3-5 covers for them. I hear that greater access to 4* covers will be coming soon, and I'm hopeful for that. I also like that we have an upcoming features post and the recent forum contest (pool party) was very nice. Free stuff does help change minds

That said, looking at the power level of all the new 4*s I have to say it really reinforces my viewpoint. I know that the developers need to make money and so power creep will always be a thing. The thing is, I still don't want to spend money on the game, just on principle after those horrible nerfs. They took the shiny thing I bought and destroyed it. And now they've introduced things that are shinier than the old ones used to be.

Look at Xforce with 500-1000 more damage on green and 4Thor with 2 more charged tiles somewhere across her abilities in the context of the other 4*s available. It would be far from unbalanced. Until they both get just a bit of their former power back, I will never spend another dime on this game, no matter how much better the developers make it in other ways. I've spent a lot of money on the game in the past, and I did it because I was happy to support the developers. Until the changes are partially reverted, I won't be happy to support them again.

M C K

I haven't ever spent money on this game, and don't plan to. It's not a question of principle for me, it's a matter of priority. I have more important people and things to spend money on. So I'll lead off with that.

This is also a long, two-part post, so I'll disclaim that here too.

Part I - The Rule

As a rule of the economy, I can reasonably expect a bit of depreciation on the assets I buy. Every vehicle I've owned and will ever own has exhibited this property. Technology? Forget it, it's worthless the week after. This principle applies as well to characters in this game, and has since inception:

• Remember getting your first 2*? Remember finally cover maxing it? By the time I had two solidly built 2*s they had drastically depreciated in value because there were a few tantalizing 3*s out there.
• The first 3* I ever cover maxed/level capped? Iron Man Model 40. Because of course he was. Before I had him even half completed, he was a pile of garbage (still is, BTW) and nowhere near as valuable as the other few 3*s that had been released.
• Even after I had started building IM40, I was thrilled when I finally maxed/capped 2* Thor. It was a turning point for me...or should have been, except the brand new LazyThor was dropping Call The Storm directly into my hindquarters. My newly capped Thor was heavily devalued.
• Now months and months later, I finally have ten 3*s fully covered and capped, and nine are ideally built (need one more cover). Thirteen more 3*s are covered, about half ideally, and at an average level of around 120. And what's happening to me today? I'm getting overpowered in PvP by IMHB, Carnage, and some other 4*s that have been around for approximately five minutes. My 3* superteams are worth far less than they were even six months ago.

This is a long way of saying "depreciation happens", and I fully accept that it happens. This is the way the game succeeds...yank that carrot away before too many of your players grab it. No worries.

Part II - The Exception

With the depreciation model in place, the game succeeds in hanging on to casual players who don't max their characters the day after their release and whales who buy buy buy everything they can. Both sides can live in relative harmony, even when one side is kicking the feces out of the other. But then when you start fiddling too much with "balance", you introduce "artificial depreciation" and things begin to go sideways.

XForce was once very powerful compared to lower ranks of players. That was to be expected...he had a unique ability set that allowed him to dominate plenty of teams of characters relatively easily. Eventually, he was a fixture on many successful PvP rosters and almost universally reviled by opponents that had to face him. Since the model depends on natural depreciation of characters through the release of newer, shinier, more differenter characters, XForce's value could (should?) have been decreased by the release of a character with a very good counter.

We got something different. XForce's nerf was arguably too nerfy and the character was relegated to "slightly above average 3*" tier power for the same rarity. Depreciation was forced. A 3* Thor purchased around its inception was worth the investment, but today he's not worth as much because there are arguably better 3* characters/teams out there that outperform him (or at least handle him without issue). He's a Cadillac, but he's got 100,000 miles on him. XForce is different. He is a Ferrari, but the Ferrari dealership came and took away the top gears. Now his performance is more on par with your mid-2000s Ford Taurus.

This is not to say some nerfs aren't completely necessary...it was absolutely proper to hack away at Stormneto and Winfinite to keep the game in check. Those tweaks were essential to remove specific scenarios. The nerfs to XForce and 4hor were not...they were power grabs.

Epilogue - My Conclusion

I don't sense a significant departure in the developer strategy that governs the game. Inappropriate nerfs will still remain, and there will still be complaints. It is an inevitability. Once in a while a nerf will be warranted and appropriate, but with XForce still fresh in folks' minds, even the good nerfs will be adjudged harshly, and that's a shame. That is trust that cannot be so easily regained.

The finality is that, anytime I feel the itch to drop just a little bit of money - $20...$10...even a $5 bill - on this game to get just a little further ahead than I am, I won't. I guarantee I won't, because I know that there is a very distinct, very real possibility that any purchase I make can be totally and indiscriminately changed into something I would never have bothered spending money on. It is a power that lies with the creators of the game, and it cannot be governed.



{tl;dr} - Nerfs are often bad ideas borne out of a need to "balance the game" incorrectly

Unknown

Probably why I won't ever spend money on a 4*, they get nerfed to oblivion only to have two new 4* in place.

I understand that the developers gotta make money with bright and shiny things for whales to salivate over but if they're going to make this new tier of play, they might as well make it easier to house the new 4*s with hp and get more covers.

Malcrof

Breezy wrote:

Probably why I won't ever spend money on a 4*, they get nerfed to oblivion only to have two new 4* in place.

I understand that the developers gotta make money with bright and shiny things for whales to salivate over but if they're going to make this new tier of play, they might as well make it easier to house the new 4*s with hp and get more covers.

Not counting a pre-release change... what other 4*s has been nerfed??

Polares

Both were over nerfed, specially XWolvie who was really nefred twice, one with its powers and then later with his hit points.

XWolvie green needs to do 1k more, or as someone suggested choose the center of the X. SS is good, but just a shadow of what it was. Its main problem is that if it is a color you need, you loose too, so maybe it should generate at least half of the ap destroyed.

4hor needs to have a decent yellow, it should affect any enemy tile, any. And then blue should create 2 more tiles.

4hor can be a good 4 specially in longer games, but it has lost all his appeal for PvP, she is too slow for the damage she does (yeah second smite could be really powerful , but you probably dont get to that in a PvP match). At least now XWolvie has a new BFF in Xpool but at least green should be buffed.

Ps: IW, Starlord and Elektra should receive some love too

Raffoon

Malcrof wrote:

Breezy wrote:

Probably why I won't ever spend money on a 4*, they get nerfed to oblivion only to have two new 4* in place.

I understand that the developers gotta make money with bright and shiny things for whales to salivate over but if they're going to make this new tier of play, they might as well make it easier to house the new 4*s with hp and get more covers.

Not counting a pre-release change... what other 4*s has been nerfed??

Both 4Thor and Wolverine were gutted compared to where they used to be. Details are in the links.

https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=13&t=27385&p=332724
https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=7&t=25304

They were definitely too powerful, and were pretty much the go-to team for everything. Rather than taking a nuanced approach and making adjustments though, the developers took a chainsaw to their guts.

Now with all of the other 4*s to compare against it's even clearer that they hit both of them too hard.

Raffoon

Polares wrote:

Both were over nerfed, specially XWolvie who was really nefred twice, one with its powers and then later with his hit points.

XWolvie green needs to do 1k more, or as someone suggested choose the center of the X. SS is good, but just a shadow of what it was. Its main problem is that if it is a color you need, you loose too, so maybe it should generate at least half of the ap destroyed.

4hor needs to have a decent yellow, it should affect any enemy tile, any. And then blue should create 2 more tiles.

4hor can be a good 4 specially in longer games, but it has lost all his appeal for PvP, she is too slow for the damage she does (yeah second smite could be really powerful , but you probably dont get to that in a PvP match). At least now XWolvie has a new BFF in Xpool but at least green should be buffed.

Ps: IW, Starlord and Elektra should receive some love too

Agreed for IW, Starlord, Elektra. Even after being buffed a couple of times, Elektra just isn't very appealing.

Choosing the X location would be a great fix as well. Just compare Xforce green to Bullseye. In a lot of situations, I'd rather have the 3* power.

I'll also reiterate the fact that the way the nerfs were handled was terrible just from a communication/implementation standpoint. When Thor was nerfed, they increased the HP given for refunds like they always used to do when changing a character. I got the wonderful opportunity to sell my 12 covers for 2250 HP, less than the cost of a single cover. So not only do they bash in my kneecaps, they offer me a lollipop afterwards and expect it to be better? ****...